Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

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DonCzirr
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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by DonCzirr » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:58 am

I think you folks should at least give focus to some of the more significant / fan favorites like P & S, Battle Academy, Commander The Great War etc ....

I really do believe that the dedicated niche fans would put out money again and make your efforts financially justifiable.

As it stands, the light IOS fare that is being produced by Slitherine (infrequently now) is no replacement for the classics that were mentioned.

If the niche / serious gaming crowd won't waste time on those, what else would serious IOS war gamers spend their money on? ----> (re-issues of the significant games that they love)
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Re: No 64 bit support on iOS

Post by eugenemcardle » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:31 am

eugenemcardle wrote:
VPaulus wrote:However we expect Apple to end 32 bit support in fall 2017. If Apple decide to do this it means games written in 32 bit will no longer run on that operating system. The games which are affected are:

• Battle Academy
• Battle Academy 2
• Pike & Shot
• Hell
• Quadriga
• Commander the Great War
• Legion
• History Egypt Engineering an Empire
• History Egypt HD
• Great Battles Medieval
• Conquest! Medieval Realms
• Ice Road Truckers
• The Tudors
• Magnifico


I have purchased ALL the games in your list except for Ice Road Truckers and The Tudors. Now perhaps you will begin to see why people are pissed off with your attitude Slithering, er I mean Slitherine.

“The only way you’ll be able to continue to play them is if you do not update your device to iOS 11.


If that was the common attitude years ago we would still be living n bloody caves!

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Re: No 64 bit support on iOS

Post by CarlVS » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:16 pm

eugenemcardle wrote:If that was the common attitude years ago we would still be living n bloody caves!
Gee, all this complaining, and not one word directed at the true party responsible for this mess - that is Apple and its bringing their "Planned Obsolescence" philosophy to the world of software development... :cry:

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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by Mythbuster » Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:55 am

OK, if Apple is the bad guy, why is Slitherine still selling all programs without any warning in the Appstore? They have no plans to update the software and it seems that their only interist is to make some more sells ...

I agree that the way to cut off all 32 Bit roots is not the best way ... but nevertheless, I have purchased around 500 games and other apps from 2009 to today ... and right now I own 350 games for iOS ... and only 28 are still 32 Bit! And I know from 9 that they are working on the 64 Bit update ... after that only Slitherine, Take2 and one other Boardgame (Qwirkle) will be 32 Bit ... and the shame: 18 from 19 games are from so called "Premium Companies" which are selling their Apps for the highes prices ... but with the worst support!

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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by IainMcNeil » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:51 am

Well that's just not true :)

This message is posted on all our 32 bit apps in the promotional text section:

"This is a 32 bit app. You will always be able to play this app on iOS 10.3 or older but Apple may remove support for 32 bit apps in future iOS updates."

The internal games listed here are in custom engines, which is required to make the kind of wargames we do. We also worked hard to allow modding and this is why the engine is so tied to 32 bit. If we did not support modding and used off the shelf engines to make more generic games then it would be easier to update. We don't and while I understand your frustration it is not through lack of effort or bad choices on our part. The games would not have been possible if we took the easier route to update. When we made these games updating to 64 bit was not an issue. It didn't exist. As I say I understand your frustration but it is simply not something we can do anything about and is absolutely not our fault.

The games developed by 3rd parties (GBM, Quadriga tec) are in a range of engines but the developers have said they don't have the time and money to update them. Even if we thought it made sense (which we don't!) we don't have access to any source code/materials to actually find a team to update the software to 64 bit so its a total impossibility.

There is just nothing we can do. Only Apple can change the outcome here and the reason you don't complain to them is because you know they would not even acknowledge your complaint so you choose to try and persuade us, as we listen to our customers. We're being punished for having a dialogue with you guys :)

If enough people complain maybe Apple will take out the block on 32 bit apps, which is a conscious decision and not a technical requirement in any way.

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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by DonCzirr » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:50 pm

IainMcNeil wrote:is because you know they would not even acknowledge your complaint so you choose to try and persuade us, as we listen to our customers. We're being punished for having a dialogue with you guys :)

If enough people complain maybe Apple will take out the block on 32 bit apps, which is a conscious decision and not a technical requirement in any way.
I think you know that is not going to happen ^^ :wink:

What about the "STUB" engine games - BA, BA2, P&S - I would imagine updating them would be possible and you have the code in-house?
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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by DonCzirr » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:50 pm

IainMcNeil wrote:is because you know they would not even acknowledge your complaint so you choose to try and persuade us, as we listen to our customers. We're being punished for having a dialogue with you guys :)

If enough people complain maybe Apple will take out the block on 32 bit apps, which is a conscious decision and not a technical requirement in any way.
I think you know that is not going to happen ^^ :wink:

What about the "STUB" engine games - BA, BA2, P&S - I would imagine updating them would be possible and you have the code in-house?
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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by VPaulus » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:39 pm

DonCzirr wrote: I think you know that is not going to happen ^^ :wink:

What about the "STUB" engine games - BA, BA2, P&S - I would imagine updating them would be possible and you have the code in-house?
IainMcNeil wrote: The internal games listed here are in custom engines, which is required to make the kind of wargames we do. We also worked hard to allow modding and this is why the engine is so tied to 32 bit. If we did not support modding and used off the shelf engines to make more generic games then it would be easier to update. We don't and while I understand your frustration it is not through lack of effort or bad choices on our part. The games would not have been possible if we took the easier route to update. When we made these games updating to 64 bit was not an issue. It didn't exist. As I say I understand your frustration but it is simply not something we can do anything about and is absolutely not our fault.
:wink:

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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by DonCzirr » Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:11 pm

Yep - saw that - but was referring to this:

"The games developed by 3rd parties (GBM, Quadriga tec) are in a range of engines but the developers have said they don't have the time and money to update them. Even if we thought it made sense (which we don't!) we don't have access to any source code/materials to actually find a team to update the software to 64 bit so its a total impossibility. "

However - I would think the STUB games would be a different case from Quadriga etc ?

As it is the *Slitherine* Turn based engine?
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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by pipfromslitherine » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:15 pm

As we've said in the past, the changes are quite involved for STUB, which would basically mean putting all the other projects that the internal programming team is working on currently on hold for weeks (if not longer) to update the code, add conversion to allow old saves and MP games to correctly run, rebuild all the other SKUs (so for all the games we are looking at more than a dozen different builds) and then test all the cross-play between the versions (e.g. for BA1 there are 5 SKUs, all needing MP testing against each other. That is 10 different combos just for that one game).

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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by DonCzirr » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:54 pm

I get it and know that you guys have to focus resources for maximum profitability.

And at the end of the day, that's what it comes down to - you're a vendor and we are customers and you have no commitment to us beyond what is reasonable for a release of a game.

And the games in question have received fair support on IOS for the last few years - so no foul there.

From a more subjective perspective, I can say that I am somewhat disappointed with the "churn" of offerings however.

"Significant" games such as Commander the Great War, BA2, P&S dying off on the platform - being replaced with cartoonish card games and lighter simulations (Carrier Deck).

Not saying the quality of those games are off (for what they are) - but it does not match the industry leading releases that you had a few years ago.

So ... again ... not happy about this turn of events ... but realize you have to make smart business decisions for yourselves and your developers.

When this type of thing happens, the customer hopes that some other vendor will step in and fill the void.

Can that be HexWar or Battle Factory? Who knows .... they both have significant issues.

Until they improve, I guess it's time to get / keep the quality Slitherie Apps, lock down the iPAD and make sure that IOS 11 comes nowhere close to it :wink:
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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by jhkrischel » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:03 am

pipfromslitherine wrote:As we've said in the past, the changes are quite involved for STUB, which would basically mean putting all the other projects that the internal programming team is working on currently on hold for weeks (if not longer) to update the code, add conversion to allow old saves and MP games to correctly run, rebuild all the other SKUs (so for all the games we are looking at more than a dozen different builds) and then test all the cross-play between the versions (e.g. for BA1 there are 5 SKUs, all needing MP testing against each other. That is 10 different combos just for that one game).

Cheers

Pip
For any iOS games that are going to be abandoned to 32-bit, would you be willing to open-source the code and let others try a 64-bit conversion?

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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by MesaDon » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:25 am

Ian wrote: "This is a 32 bit app. You will always be able to play this app on iOS 10.3 or older but Apple may remove support for 32 bit apps in future iOS updates."

This is not in the description for the games in Apple's App Store. I still can find no warning about possible games not working with an iOS update. Checked three of the 32 bit games.

Thought you'd like to know.

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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by IainMcNeil » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:28 am

I've looked in to this and its another joyous screw over by Apple.

Apple doesn't let you change a games description without a version update. Obviously we cant do a version update because the game is not 64 bit.

But Apple added a new feature called promotional text. The purpose of this is to let users know about changes without needing an update. This is where we added the text "This is a 32 bit app. You will always be able to play this app on iOS 10.3 or older but Apple may remove support for 32 bit apps in future iOS updates." We added this text months ago to warn people of potential issues.

The instructions for this say "Promotional text lets you inform your App Store visitors of any current app features without requiring an updated submission."

What we didn't know until today is that this only works on iOS11 or later. Obviously nobody has iOS11. So Apple gives us no way to update the description to warn people the game wont work on iOS11, unless they have already updated to iOS11. I'm sure you can see the irony.

There are many things Apple could do to make this easier for customers and developers but they wash their hands of it and pass the buck to us.

We're asking Apple to update the descriptions but don't hold your breath...

But clearly we are the bad guy here. I'm just disappointed after years of supporting you in all sorts of ways you guys can't see through the Apple BS and think this is really our fault. I just don't get it.

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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by IainMcNeil » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:25 am

DonCzirr wrote: "Significant" games such as Commander the Great War, BA2, P&S dying off on the platform - being replaced with cartoonish card games and lighter simulations (Carrier Deck).
The reason we don't bring more of these type of games to iOS is they don't sell. When BA first released we thought iOS would be a great new platform for strategy games and we outsold PC 10 to 1. We brought a range of other games across but BA was a blip and nothing repeated its success and the cost to make iOS games is just not worth the sales. The platform has transition to almost entirely free to play. Look at the charts and you'll see the number of paid games in the top 100 is very low.

The throw in the curve balls Apple throws you that are entirely out of your control and it just doesn't currently make sense.

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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by IainMcNeil » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:28 am

We've got Apple to update the product pages all updated so it now correctly shows the message that was added months ago.

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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by IainMcNeil » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:36 am

jhkrischel wrote:For any iOS games that are going to be abandoned to 32-bit, would you be willing to open-source the code and let others try a 64-bit conversion?
That would have to be dealt with on a case by case basis with the developers concerned. We don't own the code or have any access to it. And even then, making changes is only a small part of the process - checking it all works is a big chunk of work (how do we stop someone putting a virus in to it if we give them source code) and it requires you to have the correct tools (E.g. Unity) or whatever other middle ware they are using, which they may not be allowed to give out. Then there are all the complications of how you actually compile an iOS app and submit it and to do it they need to give you access to their iTunes account. It's an absolute nightmare to do and even experienced developers struggle with it the first few times. Realistically I think its just not feasible that developers are going to give the access you need and the files and that anyone other than an existing iOS professional developer would be able to work their way through the process.

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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by DonCzirr » Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:18 pm

IainMcNeil wrote:
DonCzirr wrote: "Significant" games such as Commander the Great War, BA2, P&S dying off on the platform - being replaced with cartoonish card games and lighter simulations (Carrier Deck).
The reason we don't bring more of these type of games to iOS is they don't sell. When BA first released we thought iOS would be a great new platform for strategy games and we outsold PC 10 to 1. We brought a range of other games across but BA was a blip and nothing repeated its success and the cost to make iOS games is just not worth the sales. The platform has transition to almost entirely free to play. Look at the charts and you'll see the number of paid games in the top 100 is very low.

The throw in the curve balls Apple throws you that are entirely out of your control and it just doesn't currently make sense.

Thanks Iain for your candor - it is appreciated.

Indeed, it is time to move on.
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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by jhkrischel » Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:21 pm

IainMcNeil wrote:
jhkrischel wrote:For any iOS games that are going to be abandoned to 32-bit, would you be willing to open-source the code and let others try a 64-bit conversion?
That would have to be dealt with on a case by case basis with the developers concerned. We don't own the code or have any access to it. And even then, making changes is only a small part of the process - checking it all works is a big chunk of work (how do we stop someone putting a virus in to it if we give them source code) and it requires you to have the correct tools (E.g. Unity) or whatever other middle ware they are using, which they may not be allowed to give out. Then there are all the complications of how you actually compile an iOS app and submit it and to do it they need to give you access to their iTunes account. It's an absolute nightmare to do and even experienced developers struggle with it the first few times. Realistically I think its just not feasible that developers are going to give the access you need and the files and that anyone other than an existing iOS professional developer would be able to work their way through the process.
Totally understand. I only make the suggestion not because it would be easy for anyone to actually do, but because it would be a show of good faith and at least open up the one-in-a-million chance that someone (or someones) savvy enough could do it as a labor of love.

Some precedents: https://maniacdev.com/open-source-ios-g ... -app-store

tl;dr - if you're not going to make anymore money selling the product, sharing the source code might help preserve it for posterity, even if it never gets bumped to 64-bit.

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Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Post by pipfromslitherine » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:20 pm

A problem most games don't have is that all these games are cross-platform MP compatible, meaning any update would need to probably also update the PC and OSX versions, including Steam versions. This just isn't practical for most developers, and we would still have to test and vet the resulting versions to ensure they didn't break any of our backend MP servers. It's just not practical. Sorry!

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