The true costs of ammunition

PC/MAC : Commander the Great War is the latest release in the popular Commander series to bring the thrill, excitement and mind-breaking decision making of these difficult times to life.

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Historion
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:41 pm

The true costs of ammunition

Post by Historion » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:11 pm

In CtGW Ammo is used by Artillery and other units to launch ranged attacks on enemy position to weaken the defender and reduce its defensive values. It allows to save ManPower (MP) due to less casualties from following ground attack against the defender and - more important - it allows (by proper planning) to take heavily defended and reinforced positions in one turn which can otherwise not be taken by ground combat, e.g. to break through an enemy front line. Ammo (at least in the first turns) is very limited. Artillery with rare Ammo in the game therefore can be seen as kind of Joker in terms of gameplay (in contradiction to real life where usually every Infantry Division has its own Artillery Brigade for support.)

(Other ways to weaken a strong defender in CtGW are reducing its efficiency by continuous Fighter attacks or by cutting off supplies due to encirclement.)

Factory costs are defined in file "game_ammunition.lua".

Code: Select all

function GetAmmunitionFactoryCost(faction)
  local cost = 8 * (faction.luaData.factories + 1)
  return cost
end
One time Production Point (PP) costs for (additional) ammo factories are 8, 16, 24, 32, 40, ... PP for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, ... factory (= diminishing returns). Each factory gives +1 Ammo for the rest of the game starting from the next turn.

The grand campaign runs from 1914 to 1918 for 118 turns. Imagine starting in turn 1 without any ammo production.

Buying the 1st factory for 8 PP in turn 1 results in +1 Ammo per turn for the remaining 117 turns, that is 117 Ammo for 8 PP or 1 Ammo for ca. 0,07 PP.
Buying the first 5 factories for 8 + 16 + 24 + 32 + 40 = 120 PP results in +5 Ammo per turn for the remaining 117 turns, that is 585 Ammo for 120 PP or 1 Ammo for ca. 0,20 PP. This allows an Artillery strike (10 Ammo) every second turn which costs 10 x 0,2 PP = 2 PP.
Buying the first 10 factories for 8 + 16 + ... + 80 = 440 PP results in +10 Ammo per turn for the remaining 117 turns, that is 1170 Ammo for 440 PP or 1 Ammo for ca. 0,37 PP. This allows an Artillery strike (10 Ammo) every turn which costs 10 x 0,37 PP = ca 4 PP.

Imagine now starting in turn 1 with already +9 ammo production.
Buying the 10th factory in turn 1 for 80 PP gives additional 117 Ammo for 80 PP or 1 additional ammo per turn for 0,68 PP. The 10th factory at turn 1 allows 11 additional Artillery strikes during a game which each cost about 7 PP.
80 PP is equal to 4 Infantry Units, so maybe the purchase of the 10th factory is delayed. Purchasing a factory later in the game reduces the number of turns in which we can benefit from the factory, e.g. buying the 10th factory in turn 60 gives only 58 instead of 117 Ammo but costs the same 80 PP, that is additional 58 Ammo for 80 PP or 1 additional ammo for 1,38 PP. The 10th factory then would allow only 5-6 additional Artillery strikes which each costs about 14 PP.

Buying the 20th factory in turn 58 for 160 PP gives 60 Ammo or +1 additional ammo per turn for 2,67 PP each. It allows 6 additional Artillery strikes which each cost about 27 PP (which is more than a new Infantry unit if you neglect the upkeep). (-> diminishing returns)

BattlevonWar
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:25 am

Re: The true costs of ammunition

Post by BattlevonWar » Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:16 am

Wow, that's all great and dandy until you find out what bombers and airships do to Artillery and at a fraction of the price to launch an attack. All these wonderful calculations go out the window if you just saved up your salvos for an aerial bombardment and reduce Artillery to nothing in a few turns. They end up being used in obscure theaters where nobody can bomb them...so Artillery is obsolete in 1915 in the current patch, just about...plus you gotta buy that Artillery piece for WHAT? Not worth the research and not worth the hassle late game, plus launch poison gas and see what happens diplomatically (Bombers can do more damage than poison gas in tandem)

Buy Bombers and what do you pay, 2 ammo load? Now that's called efficient in game terms, which shouldn't be but ... at least have fighters that can fend off the Bombers and Airships? They're more vulnerable than the Artillery!

P.S. Just venting on the oldest points that have never been changed since the game release. Meanwhile Cavalry and Artillery should be the breakthrough units not the the other and since the release they have be turned into weak mobile infantry(cav) and so so powered unit(artillery) meanwhile bombers have not changed. I guess nobody checks this game past 1915 in beta

P.S.S. Not to put you off the game there are modded editions that solve some of these issues, but I still miss some of the original gamey factors, they just have gone in the wrong direction.

Turbo624
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:43 pm

Re: The true costs of ammunition

Post by Turbo624 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:49 pm

The bombers are a terrible design feature and need to be majorly nerfed.

BattlevonWar
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:25 am

Re: The true costs of ammunition

Post by BattlevonWar » Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:07 am

Agreed, they're like Stukas and B-17s

PrinceMiskin
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:05 pm

Re: The true costs of ammunition

Post by PrinceMiskin » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:37 am

Yup, BB bombardment costs 3, while artillery 10. It's insane. Bombers are probably equipped with homing missiles.

kirk23
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:23 pm

Re: The true costs of ammunition

Post by kirk23 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:05 am

Hi Guys, All aircraft in game have had their stats changed,they are no longer fitted with cruise missiles in WW1! All aircraft need upgrades via research,before being more effective on the battlefield, Early in the war 1914, Fighters are little more than recon air units,any attack on land units,only effects the land units efficiency,Bombers & Zeppelins,are treated in the same way,they need research to improve. :wink:

Turbo624
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:43 pm

Re: The true costs of ammunition

Post by Turbo624 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:25 pm

Has that been released on Steam? BTW, changing the stats of aircraft is one piece of a larger problem. If the ammo issue hasn't been fixed, then it is still broken, and artillery is a waste.

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