Blosheviks revolution

[nehi]

what are conditions to be triggered and outcomes of it?

ive tried to search through the forum, but i found just some really old threads about it and without deatailed informations

[Robotron]

February Revolution: Russia morale is below 50 and gameyear is 1917. Russia gets a morale boost of +20 (for getting rid of the Tsar I presume).

October Revolution: Russia morale is 40 or lower and gameyear is 1917. Russia morale is lowered by 40, therbey most likely kicking Russia out of the game if no other morale boost for Russia occurs.

Finlan War: 23 turns after February Revolution has fired. Finland joins the CP, Red Finland joins Entente.

[nehi]

thx a lot, i meant october (because i think its only way to win 1917 scenario as cp, close east front with help of bolsheviks)

what happens, if russian morale is more than 40 and october 1917 comes?

[Robotron]

Then nothing would happen. Only prerequisites are gameyear at least 1917 and russian morale is 40 or less. The month does not play a role.

[nehi]

then its quite difficult to achieve it on time...

ive hoped it will at least lower their morale somehow, so they could be finished later

but later than in october 1917 it can still happen if morale is under 40?

[Robotron]

Yes. And most likely Russia would surrender after the event.

To be more specific: the event checks in the game are (mostly) done every turn as soon as the prerequisites are met, not just at the exact date they happened historically.

[nehi]

Ive played it a bit more now, bolsheviks revolution can be triggered even before oct 1917 (once in mp in august - full event, vs ai in july! - i havent seen event but it surrendered in similar conditions as with event)

it needs just some russian home minor cities

[Robotron]

Well, as I said earlier

Only prerequisites are gameyear at least 1917 and russian morale is 40 or less. The month does not play a role.

it needs just some russian home minor cities

and of course enough losses to push the morale below 40 since minor cities (those who don't have their own special event) don't cause morale loss.

[nehi]

oh, u wrote it ages ago

so i can confirm it


"those who don't have their own special event, don't cause morale loss" <- are you sure about that? so far i tought any minor loss does low morale hit and when u reconquer it u get some morale back

ive tried vs ai in 1917 scenario às russia to disband units (so cp cant kill anyone) and let cp seize cities for free, -50% morale loss for like 15 minor cities without event (but serbia surrendered, so its like 2% in average for one minor)

[Robotron]

Yes, I'm sure about it. That's because national morale is for the greatest part computed from the ratio between the size of your army compared to the kill/casualities ratio.

As long as this ratio is in your favor, your morale will rise and rise and rise...and even if you play a mod where the designer included an event that would make you lose 50 morale you would have regained it in a few turns as long as your army is as big as possible and you kill enough enemies. Of course a big successful army needs citys with PP in the first place and the greater your army the larger the morale boost from a good ratio.

In your example you had NO army and NO KILLS and NO losses...so, what was your ratio? Exactly zero, so your morale went way down.

[nehi]

there has to be something else count in it, it wasnt falling continuously, but just next turn after cp seized city

ai is so dumb, thats not advancing even when is on hex just next to free city, when cp werent advancing, morale wasnt falling

when they were advancing on pointless hexes, morale wasnt falling

it took many turns, i was just lazy to notice exact % drop for each city, especially when sometimes later cp seized 2 or 3 at once, but in average it was 2% for one minor (i guess its altering between 1-3%)

ok, ive tried it again, here is the report:

i disbanded all ground units west from dnepro in first turn, no drop, on top of that +2% growth
turns 2,3,4 nothing lost, no change
5th chisnau lost -1%
6th odessa lost -3%
7th smolensk lost + reaction on romania and/or belgium (it happend both at once) surrendering -7%
8th minsk lost + serbia surrendered -16%
9,10,11 nothing lost, no change
12th lost riga, vinnytsia and gomel -3%
13th lost bryansk -3%
14th lost pskov -4%
15th lost talin -3%

[Robotron]

You are giving a rather extreme example here by disbanding a lot of units and not fighting which of course makes you more prone to changes in morale.

To be more specific: you are losing morale not because you lost cities but rather because you lost PP which are provided by cities, BUT there are other means of losing PP like bombardment or loss of production by low manpower too!
PP are part of the "army performance"-calculations which favors the biggest possible army and a good kill/loss ratio but unless you perform very bad morale loss due to PP loss should be negligible.

So, strictly speaking, losing cities per se is not a qualifier for losing morale as long as you play in a "normal" way. There are of course the special events for losing major cities or the surrendering of an ally, but these usually play a minor part in the calculation.

[nehi]

it were strictly experimental conditions, nothing extreme

fine, that sounds reasonable, morale is not droping cause of losing cities but by losing production provided by cities

when u want lower morale temporary, lower production (omg blimps)
when u want lower morale permanently, capture cities

[operating]

I'm somewhat perplexed about what Robotron says and what the manual says about cities! Both in SP and MP if the Russians lose close to 18 cities it's a sure bet they are close to the brink of collapse/surrender, no matter what year it is, but almost assuredly near Oct. 1917, if a match should go that far at the Eastern Front. Somewhere on the Matrix CTGW forum Kirk wrote that cities captured caused a -10 morale loss and forts were a -5 morale loss, I believe not due to any special events such as the capture of Warsaw, ect... Granted that in the course of capturing cities there certainly has been MP (man-power) losses also which would contribute to morale problems. To tell the truth, I never quite grasped the formula as to how one side is winning or losing, although I had a pretty good idea how it worked and what worked for me. I can only appreciate what Robotron and others are doing in trying to explain the script details and putting into "understandable" layman terms...

[nehi]

lenins morale level is 50%, not 40

[Robotron]

It's 40.

Code: Select all

-- October revolution
function OctoberRevolution()
  if GetEvent("OctoberRevolution") == 0 then
    if game.date.year >= 1917 then
      local russia = game:GetFactionById(4)
      if russia.morale <= 40 then
        SetEvent("OctoberRevolution", game.turn)
        ChangeFactionMorale(russia, -40)
      end
    end
  end
end

Rest is influenced by bad kill/casualities ratio. The display also does not tell you the actual morale stats but about 20% more (give or take a few percent).

*blows a raspberry*

[nehi]

fine, but in two games when it happened to me it was showing exactly 50, first time it was in 1916 scenario, just in early jan 1917, very surprising, second time it was in oct 1917 of nivelle scenario, i was anticipating it and it came just at same level again

50% score 2
40% score 0 so far

now im playing with that player two more nivelle games, both sides, so let see whats actually in the script and what on the screen

50-30 is 30, not 40, if its showing more than actual level, but its true i saw sometimes some minor nation surrender with more than 0, but just few, especially persia was done anytime in range 0-5, major nation, except russia, i havent ever seen to surrender with more than 0

in your mod i was balancing with germans on the edge, 0-15, for many turns, on top of that they were able to wake up even from zero, never seen such comeback before

[Robotron]

in your mod i was balancing with germans on the edge, 0-15, for many turns, on top of that they were able to wake up even from zero, never seen such comeback before

That's exactly what I meant with Germany profiting from a good kill/casuality ratio when led by a human player over at the "PotzBlitz-Mod"-thread.
The morale level gets modified by that and a (about an absolut 20%, called "surrender base" in the scripts) level of tolerance until surrender is declared. It's all very confusing, I agree, but I didn't code that game, you see?

[nehi]

it was for case, u havent moded this, it would be like playing 10 turns with negative morale level

43% score 1 (so its some range spread, u can trust me and call me whole truth at once next time )

as entente my russia went down to 58%, but then i was able to turn the tide, the less cp had units, the more russia morale has risen, russia got 20% back in few turns, its quite huge impact