Differences Between FoG:AM (v1) and FoG:R

Moderators: Slitherine Core, FOGR Design

Post Reply
timmy1
Lieutenant-General - Nashorn
Lieutenant-General - Nashorn
Posts: 3436
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:39 pm
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, England

Differences Between FoG:AM (v1) and FoG:R

Post by timmy1 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:31 am

I have created this thread to try to capture the differences between FoG:AM (in version 1.0) and FoG:R (version 1.0). I know some players have got caught out and some players of FoG:AM will not switch because the differences are too much to take in. This is intended to help people crossing over from FoG:AM find out what is different. No one is compelled to post here, there are a number of items in other threads. If it helps you post here.

donkiesrus2003
Corporal - Strongpoint
Corporal - Strongpoint
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:38 pm

Post by donkiesrus2003 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:51 am

Only 1 die per overlap
If you are in a tunnel and you see the light remember it may be a train.

deadtorius
General - Elite King Tiger
General - Elite King Tiger
Posts: 4173
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:41 am

Post by deadtorius » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:58 pm

infantry and mounted may break off, the infantry one is unique so far.

SirGarnet
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Posts: 2186
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:13 am

Post by SirGarnet » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:22 am

DIFFERENCES AND REMINDERS - A Bullet-Point Level List

To help transition and keeping things straight for those who play both.

BATTLEFIELD AND DEPLOYMENT:
PBI count, terrain chart and mandatory terrain approach changed.
Agricultural and Developed territory types combined into one.
Added linear “obstacle” terrain. Only one type of Uneven.
Special rules for certain troops in cover.
Detached Shot, Forlorn Hopes, and forward-deployed Artillery. Deployment sequence updated accordingly.
Flank zones restricted to mounted and lights.

TROOPS:
Basing like FOGAM except HF treated as 20mm rather than 15mm deep.
Drilled/Undrilled distinction gone, but more restrictive CMTs for foot.
New troop types: Determined (heavy) Foot, Dragoons, Medium Artillery
Western foot commonly in mixed formations (e.g., pike & shot).
Cavaliers, Horse and Determined Horse added. Knights replaced by Gendarmes. Chariots and Cataphracts are history.
Elephants are neither mounted nor foot but can move with either - behave uniquely. Vulnerable to artillery.
Dragoons added as Light Troops with some Dragoon-specific rules variations.
Regimental Guns available to provide shooting bonus for some mid-17th C foot.
Spearmen simplified to one (uncommon) type.
Warriors added to cover less organised foot in tribal and other less formally organised armies.
Offshore naval fire available for some armies.
There are still 4 levels of armour, but “Protection” means a side-edge support POA. Many “Protected” FOGAM types are “Unarmoured” in FOGR. The Armoured category has been split into 2.

CAPABILITIES:
Wide range of capabilities updated or added.
Ability to dismount troops or have BGs of “commanded Shot” is list-specific.

FORMATIONS:
Tercios, Keils, Swedish Brigades have special benefits and behaviours.
Relatively rigid mixed (e.g., pike & shot) formations.
Artillery gunners can shelter against attack behind supporting foot.
Square replaces Orb.
Double Attrition Points for Grand Battle Groups.
Some game mechanisms focus on files rather than bases.

MOVEMENT:
Divisions with separated BGs replace solid battle lines for grouped movement.
Turns may displace blocking enemy.
"Formation Change" added.
All wheeling is limited to 90 degrees.
Battle foot can never turn and move.
Light Artillery can move, Medium and Heavy Artillery can move limbered, otherwise can only pivot.
No free base-width shift when advancing, but more half-base shift options.
Third Moves possible for mounted & dragoons, but not commanders on their own.
Interpenetration changed; no partial interpenetrations allowed.
No “difficult moves.”
LH & LF slower. Faster road movement.
Commanders not displaced by enemy in shooting range.

IMPACT
No more charging without orders.
Foot test to charge Mounted or Elephants.
Only an initial wheel is allowed in a charge.
Tercio and Keil immunities to flank/rear charges and internal base exchanges..
Non-shock Cavalry in one rank can still evade, horse can’t.

MELEE
Feeding by shifting allowed to avoid/minimize illegal formations.
An overlap adds only one die – Warriors/HW get automatic ++.

SHOOTING:
Firearms effective range shorter than bows. Shooting edge rules.
No support shooting in Impact.
Enfilade bonus; threatened flank penalty.
Death rolls from firearms are deadlier.
Artillery is useful with long range, overhead shooting and special target priority.

COMBAT
Tactical-concept POAs retained, troop-based POAs updated. .
Protection between missile & close combat foot and between commanded shot and horse or Cavaliers.
Death roll changes make for “bloodier” battles.
Overlap: single dice but Warrior & HW bonus.
Artillery – support, capture and recapture.

COHESION TESTS
Enemies have more ways to threaten and friends are more easily supportive, though Mobs don’t support..
Warriors test for 2 artillery hits. Updates to special factors.

JOINT ACTION
Break offs voluntary for foot and mounted and rules are different.
Rout direction different.
Gendarmes, Cavaliers and Impact Warriors pursue more aggressively.
Foot battle troops don’t need a CMT to stop 1 MU from fresh enemy non-Foot.

MODIFIED/CLARIFIED
Sequence of play.
Restricted Areas.
Fragmented being charged/contacted.
Sacking Camps.
Feeding into melee.
Base removal & proportional loss rules for mixed BGs.
Reworked Field Fortifications rules.

---
General FOGR Comment: Foot is less nimble, formations are more structured, and by the end of the period firepower becomes the primary form of combat. Close combat, however, can be more quickly decisive.

SirGarnet
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Posts: 2186
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:13 am

Post by SirGarnet » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:50 pm

These are some other differences noted by timmy1 in a FoG 2.0 thread:
  • FOGR specifically mentions 40mm/MU option for 25/28mm on a big table.

    Determined Foot (basically aggressive Heavy Foot) moves 1 MU faster than Heavy Foot (at 4 MU the Swiss are fast!). Medium Foot (though not Warriors), Light Foot and Light Horse move 1 MU slower than in FOGAM . This is a important point to keep active in your subconscious when switching between rules sets.

    Everyone CMTs on an 8.

    BGs up to 4 bases wide can form square in an enemy restricted area without worrying about the contraction restriction.

    Heavy Weapons rear ranks in pike blocks count for Pike 4-rank bonus.

    The Open Fields terrain type is gone. More choice of compulsory terrain alternatives.
Last edited by SirGarnet on Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

marty
Sergeant Major - SdKfz 234/2 8Rad
Sergeant Major - SdKfz 234/2 8Rad
Posts: 635
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:26 am
Location: Sydney

Post by marty » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:31 pm

Foot bow shoots two full ranks.

Who needs a musket!

Martin

petedalby
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Posts: 3008
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:23 pm
Location: Fareham, UK

Post by petedalby » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:25 pm

A helpful summary list gentlemen - thank you.

An important one I noted - Foot can't Intercept Mounted - even in the flank or rear?
Pete

timmy1
Lieutenant-General - Nashorn
Lieutenant-General - Nashorn
Posts: 3436
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:39 pm
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, England

Post by timmy1 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:05 pm

Pete

Yep, that is so - it's the Renaissance of Infantry don't you know...

Eques
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Differences Between FoG:AM (v1) and FoG:R

Post by Eques » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:28 pm

I have just read the FoG R rules closely for the first time and do not find too many differences to AM that would put me off playing.

The Tercio/Keil/Regimental gun stuff seems a bit daunting but glad they added it for the period flavour.

Was surprised that cavalry do not get many manouvre advantages over foot but its not my period really so I'm sure its justified.

ravenflight
Brigadier-General - 15 cm Nblwf 41
Brigadier-General - 15 cm Nblwf 41
Posts: 1966
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:52 am

Re: Differences Between FoG:AM (v1) and FoG:R

Post by ravenflight » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:36 pm

Eques wrote:I have just read the FoG R rules closely for the first time and do not find too many differences to AM that would put me off playing.

The Tercio/Keil/Regimental gun stuff seems a bit daunting but glad they added it for the period flavour.

Was surprised that cavalry do not get many manouvre advantages over foot but its not my period really so I'm sure its justified.
Probably the biggest advantage mounted get are thus:

1) ability to triple move;
2) ability to deploy in flanks; and,
3) ability to threaten the flanks of foot (even in the central quadrant) just by having part of a base hanging out to the left or right of the BG in question - i.e. they DON'T have to be in position to charge the flank, just being nearby is enough.

All of these things make people act to counter, or suffer the consequences (as per normal).

If you don't think mounted have a manouver advantage, take a purely foot army... you'll find this is not the case. Armies like Buccaneer etc are totally useless in open comp BECAUSE combined arms and mounted manouver are so important.

Eques
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:50 am

Re: Differences Between FoG:AM (v1) and FoG:R

Post by Eques » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:40 pm

Fair enough, haven't played yet.

I was just looking at the CMT tables.

SirGarnet
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Posts: 2186
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:13 am

Re: Differences Between FoG:AM (v1) and FoG:R

Post by SirGarnet » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:04 am

You will find that horse find it advisable to avoid charging Steady pike and shot from the front, and that the flank of a single line of battle of pike and shot is as vulnerable as you would think and that the bulk of the horse will be on the wings. The second-line foot is there to cover the immediate flank of the first line or wheel to form a line facing to the flank.

There are more prospects for sweeping cavalry charges in the early bayonet era as pikes are dropped, but the first task of the cavalryman remains to defeat his opposite number.

kevinj
Major-General - Tiger I
Major-General - Tiger I
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:21 am
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Differences Between FoG:AM (v1) and FoG:R

Post by kevinj » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:17 am

There are a number of other things that affect foot:

Keils and Pike and Shot BGs have to maintain legal formations.
Most Foot battle troops only move 3 MUs.
There is no turn and move option for Foot battle troops.

The battle reports on http://www.madaxeman.com/index.php will give you an idea of how games can pan out.

domblas
2nd Lieutenant - Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Panzer IVF/2
Posts: 697
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:16 pm
Location: Montpellier, France

Re: Differences Between FoG:AM (v1) and FoG:R

Post by domblas » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:04 pm

Hi fogRers,
reading the rules and especially the table "how many dice" for shooting. I see nothing for light troops? do they count 1 dice per base as others?
Domblas
Edward

SirGarnet
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Posts: 2186
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:13 am

Re: Differences Between FoG:AM (v1) and FoG:R

Post by SirGarnet » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:25 pm

Line 9 of the table is the "foot or mounted with other capability and a list, so it is 1 per 2 or 1 per 3 bases depending on range.

domblas
2nd Lieutenant - Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Panzer IVF/2
Posts: 697
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:16 pm
Location: Montpellier, France

Re: Differences Between FoG:AM (v1) and FoG:R

Post by domblas » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:39 am

MikeK wrote:Line 9 of the table is the "foot or mounted with other capability and a list, so it is 1 per 2 or 1 per 3 bases depending on range.
thx mike,

Edward

Post Reply

Return to “Rules Questions”