BG Supporting Arty: Shooting?

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Blathergut
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BG Supporting Arty: Shooting?

Post by Blathergut » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:31 am

An 8 base pike/shot BG behind 2 bases of arty:

Do the shot bases shoot as if level with the front of the arty when no enemy is in contact with the arty?

Or does the "counts as level with the front of the arty" only apply when the guns are contacted by enemy?

If fighting enemy in contact with the guns, but there was a file of muskets unengaged, would these shoot as if level with the front of the arty?

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Re: BG Supporting Arty: Shooting?

Post by shadowdragon » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:48 am

Blathergut wrote:An 8 base pike/shot BG behind 2 bases of arty:

Do the shot bases shoot as if level with the front of the arty when no enemy is in contact with the arty?

Or does the "counts as level with the front of the arty" only apply when the guns are contacted by enemy?

If fighting enemy in contact with the guns, but there was a file of muskets unengaged, would these shoot as if level with the front of the arty?
Now, really! Just when would you ever see an 8 base pike/shot BG behind 2 bases of arty?

Blathergut
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Post by Blathergut » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:56 am

In both our last games. :D

Very slow moving, indeed. But it shattered what it hit when it eventually got there! :twisted:

Oh...it was light arty. :oops:

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Post by shadowdragon » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:38 am

Blathergut wrote:In both our last games. :D

Very slow moving, indeed. But it shattered what it hit when it eventually got there! :twisted:

Oh...it was light arty. :oops:
The Parliamentarians have one too in the game I'm playing (posted on the AAR). It's a cool looking formation. Sort of a proto-machine gun.

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Re: BG Supporting Arty: Shooting?

Post by rbodleyscott » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:03 am

Blathergut wrote:An 8 base pike/shot BG behind 2 bases of arty:

Do the shot bases shoot as if level with the front of the arty when no enemy is in contact with the arty?
Yes
If fighting enemy in contact with the guns, but there was a file of muskets unengaged, would these shoot as if level with the front of the arty?
Yes if they weren't an overlap.

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Re: BG Supporting Arty: Shooting?

Post by KiwiWarlord » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:05 am

Blathergut wrote:An 8 base pike/shot BG behind 2 bases of arty:
8 Bases ?? Which army please.
Thanks

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Re: BG Supporting Arty: Shooting?

Post by nikgaukroger » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:31 am

Warlord wrote:
Blathergut wrote:An 8 base pike/shot BG behind 2 bases of arty:
8 Bases ?? Which army please.
Thanks

You can, IIRC, create such by the process of detaching shot and they are available to the late end of the Huguenot list.
Nik Gaukroger

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If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith

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Re: BG Supporting Arty: Shooting?

Post by Lighthorseman » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:09 am

Blathergut wrote:An 8 base pike/shot BG behind 2 bases of arty:

Do the shot bases shoot as if level with the front of the arty when no enemy is in contact with the arty?
rbodleyscott wrote:
Yes


I am confused. The rules state on p126 (point 2): "Hence a battle group in a position to give rear support to arty is treated for all purposes as if its front edge was in the position of the front edge of the arty, except that the files actually providing rear support cannot shoot."

I would have thought that this means that the shot bases could not shoot?

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Re: BG Supporting Arty: Shooting?

Post by LambertSimnel » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:38 am

nikgaukroger wrote:
Warlord wrote:
Blathergut wrote:An 8 base pike/shot BG behind 2 bases of arty:
8 Bases ?? Which army please.
Thanks

You can, IIRC, create such by the process of detaching shot and they are available to the late end of the Huguenot list.
Also, French infantry in the French Wars of Religion - Huguenot, French Wars of Religion - Catholic, and Early Imperial Spanish lists are natural 4+4s. However they have Arquebus rather than musket and, except for post 1600 Huguenots, are all Poor.

Blathergut
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Post by Blathergut » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:49 pm

>The 8 base BG (2MF + 2HF + 2HF + 2MF) was combined when two 6 base BGs (2MF+2HF+2MF) detached 2MF each. The detached 4MF formed a BG and the 8 foot from the original two BGs formed a BG.

>The bases directly behind the arty cannot shoot. So, with a 6 base pike/shot BG, one file of muskets could shoot if the BG is not actually fighting enemy to the front of the arty. If the BG is giving rear support, that file of muskets would be acting as overlap, so no shooting.

With the 8 base BG, if the arty is to one side, the far otherside file of muskets could shoot even if the BG was fighting as rear support (providing the enemy size did not have it acting as overlap).

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Post by Lighthorseman » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:14 pm

thanks

I can now see that it means that it may be only part of the support unit that cant shoot.

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Post by deadtorius » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:32 am

only those bases directly behind the artillery, in front base contact with the rear of the artillery base are providing support and can not shoot regardless. Bases that are beside the artillery and not acting as an overlap or there are no enemies that they could be in base contact with in melee can shoot.
In theory if you have an 8 base pike and shot unit you can line up the pikes behind the guns and have both ends of the shot free to shoot if they are not currently fighting in melee. Extra dice might keep the enemy at bay.

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Post by SirGarnet » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:07 am

deadtorius wrote:In theory if you have an 8 base pike and shot unit you can line up the pikes behind the guns and have both ends of the shot free to shoot if they are not currently fighting in melee. Extra dice might keep the enemy at bay.
This also works with early tercios - 2 Light Artillery gun bases nestled between the horns in contact with the pike files. The pike and shot bases are assumed to be even with the front of the guns for combat purposes. Being in contact with the front or rear edge of the guns (physically the rear, notionally in the position of the front) the tercio can move fully through and beyond the guns to the other side as its move. The shot horns can shoot, measured from even with the guns.

If shooting at the middle files, where the artillery and foot front edges are assumed to be in the same position (page 126, bullet 2), both the gun and the foot are of equal priority so that the player shooting can shoot either at the guns or the deeper tercio (page 107 target priority bullet 2 and 3). Since under bullet 3 you can't split bases among targets of equal priority, the player must choose to target either the guns or the foot with his BG in each shooting round.

This was not how I played it in the past, since the guns are physically the closer target we shot at them, but that was before looking at the rules concept more carefully.

Mike

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Post by Blathergut » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:25 pm

Hmmm...

So, assume an 8 base pike/shot BG behind 2 bases of arty, pike files in contact with the rear of the arty. An enemy pike/shot BG (6 bases) in front wants to shoot. It has its left shot file and its pike file directly to front of arty. Fine. Target arty or foot. But what about the right file of muskets? Does it have to shoot at the foot since the foot is taken as even with the arty and would therefore be considered priority since directly to front of the right musket file?

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Post by deadtorius » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:35 am

I think I can still blast your arty into oblivion as they are both equal targets and I would sooner see your arty disappear than waste my dice trying to force a test on that 8 base monstrosity of yours.

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Post by Blathergut » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:56 am

I'll have you know, oh poodle-swine, that you speak of the Lord General's Regiment of Foote! A pox upon your poodle!! :twisted:

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Post by deadtorius » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:57 pm

A bigger pox on your general and his foot :twisted:
Bloody Parliamentarian animal haters.... :P

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Post by SirGarnet » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:51 am

Now now, gentlemen, be polite - this is after all supposed to be a civil war.

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Post by shadowdragon » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:15 am

MikeK wrote:Now now, gentlemen, be polite - this is after all supposed to be a civil war.
Yes, but civil wars aren't....just like common sense isn't!

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Post by Blathergut » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:57 am

:D :lol:

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