Intercepts and evaders

Moderators: Slitherine Core, FOGR Design

Post Reply
IanP
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:27 am

Intercepts and evaders

Post by IanP » Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:08 am

Not sure if this has been covered before. I looked at the section in the rules, but still uncertain.
If you declare an intercept on the flank or rear of a charging unit that is normally capable of evading, does it have that option?
If the original charge is cancelled, then I would assume so. But I can see a case being made that the unit has been caught by surprise whilst attempting to charge.

Also, if an intercept is treated as a normal charge (particularly in a flank/rear situation where the interceptor makes the move into contact) what happens if another enemy unit is in the charge path/ intercept zone?
Either treat them as you would in a normal charge, or not allowed to contact as they were not the subject of the intercept? If not allowed to contact can bases stop short to avoid contact whilst other “step forwards” into the unit being intercepted?
For that matter, does the presence of another enemy unit in the intercept zone deny the option to intercept at all?

ravenflight
Brigadier-General - 15 cm Nblwf 41
Brigadier-General - 15 cm Nblwf 41
Posts: 1966
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:52 am

Re: Intercepts and evaders

Post by ravenflight » Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:17 am

IanP wrote:Not sure if this has been covered before. I looked at the section in the rules, but still uncertain.
If you declare an intercept on the flank or rear of a charging unit that is normally capable of evading, does it have that option?
If the original charge is cancelled, then I would assume so. But I can see a case being made that the unit has been caught by surprise whilst attempting to charge.
No, it can't evade. I know this to be true, however I don't have the rules reference I'm sorry.

pyruse
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:32 am

Re: Intercepts and evaders

Post by pyruse » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:11 am

Look at the sequence of play.
Evades happen before intercepts. So, no, you can't evade an intercept, as that phase has already happened.

daveallen
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 542
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:21 am

Re: Intercepts and evaders

Post by daveallen » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:35 am

The only restriction I've found is a sentence at the end of the penultimate bp on page 86 to the effect that "Under no circumstances can a charging bg evade an interception charge."

However, the bp begins "Unless the charge is cancelled as above..."

For me this means the final sentence does not apply to bg's that have had their charges cancelled and therefore they should be permitted to evade if able.

Dave

But see next post for me changing my mind faster than a charge cancelled by an intercept on the flank... :oops:
Last edited by daveallen on Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

daveallen
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 542
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:21 am

Re: Intercepts and evaders

Post by daveallen » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:50 am

pyruse wrote:Look at the sequence of play.
Evades happen before intercepts. So, no, you can't evade an intercept, as that phase has already happened.
Actually, it's the other way round.

This means the interceptors will contact a bg whose charge they are cancelling before the evade can take place. Since bg's in contact with the enemy (other than purely as an overlap) cannot evade, they have to stay and fight.

Which cancels the view I gave on my previous post. Doh!

Dave

kevinj
Major-General - Tiger I
Major-General - Tiger I
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:21 am
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Intercepts and evaders

Post by kevinj » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:04 am

I agree with Dave here, in the case of a flank/rear intercept the original charge is cancelled and it is treated as a normal charge, therefore the normal responses (other than intercept) apply. The Interceptors can step forward after the initial contact as normal (this is specifically mentioned on P86) and this may result in contact with another BG.
Also, if an intercept is treated as a normal charge (particularly in a flank/rear situation where the interceptor makes the move into contact) what happens if another enemy unit is in the charge path/ intercept zone?
Either treat them as you would in a normal charge, or not allowed to contact as they were not the subject of the intercept? If not allowed to contact can bases stop short to avoid contact whilst other “step forwards” into the unit being intercepted?
For that matter, does the presence of another enemy unit in the intercept zone deny the option to intercept at all?
This is covered under the third bullet point on P86, where it statesthat the interception charge must "contact the flank or rear of the charging battle group only". So you can't contact another BG first or simultaneously.
No, it can't evade
The prohibition on evading is for BGs where the interceptors are moving into their path (4th bullet on P86), not for flank/rear cases.

kevinj
Major-General - Tiger I
Major-General - Tiger I
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:21 am
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Intercepts and evaders

Post by kevinj » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:10 am

Which cancels the view I gave on my previous post. Doh!
It was Dave's original view that I was agreeing with, but I agree that the sequence of play somewhat contradicts the rules on P86 which specifically prohibit further intercepts, but don't exclude evades as a potential response.

IanP
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:27 am

Re: Intercepts and evaders

Post by IanP » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:19 am

Thanks for your replies everyone.

Still seems a bit unclear though.

The whole second last bullet point on page 86 appears to me to only be referring to "frontal" intercepts.
In the previous bullet point the word "only" could be taken as referring to hitting the flank or rear only, or be meant to mean only that particular battle group (or even both)!

Extrapolating from a number of points in that whole section, the inference (to me) is that the intercept is treated like a normal charge except that you are doing it in the opponents turn (once triggered) and that all the usual options and obligations apply to both parties (unless otherwise specifically excepted, such as can't intercept an intercept).

timmy1
Lieutenant-General - Nashorn
Lieutenant-General - Nashorn
Posts: 3436
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:39 pm
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, England

Re: Intercepts and evaders

Post by timmy1 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:35 am

Page 92. Sequence of Charges and Responses. 'The non-active player chooses the order of his intercept moves. He also chooses the order (and direction) of his evade moves'. Nowhere in the sequence does the active player have the option to evade, therefore he cannot evade an intercept charge.

ravenflight
Brigadier-General - 15 cm Nblwf 41
Brigadier-General - 15 cm Nblwf 41
Posts: 1966
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:52 am

Re: Intercepts and evaders

Post by ravenflight » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:18 am

P72:
When the charge declaration stage is over, no charge declarations can be rescinded, nor additional voluntary charges declared.

If you're charging (even if things change because you're intercepted) you can't then NOT be charging.

Post Reply

Return to “Rules Questions”