Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Themes confirmed

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Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Themes confirmed

Post by kevinj » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:58 pm

I need to firm up the themes for this year's competition. The expectation of the organisers is that at least two of the pools are along the lines of traditional Renaissance (e.g. TYW, Italian Wars etc). Last year we had TYW/ECW in 25mm, a late 17th Century European period and a 17th Century Asian/Middle East period. Here's what I'm thinking so far:

1) Retain the 25mm period as before as that's probably the one that most people have armies for in that scale.
2) An early 16th Century period in 15mm with loads of Keils and/or Tercios.
3) An African/American period in 15mm focussing on foot based warrior armies.

Does anyone have any input to these or any alternative suggestions?
Last edited by kevinj on Mon May 30, 2016 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Theme Thoughts

Post by quackstheking » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:58 pm

Hi Kevin,

Some quick thoughts:-

1) Agree fully - I like the current vogue for no more Superiors than average bases for both foot and horse - Artillery isn't so important because of the narrow tables but stopping it firing into the flank zones will force it to be deployed more in the middle - if you were being very cruel you could ensure that all horse could be a maximum of armoured not heavily armoured and where there was a minimum for H/armoured, that still apply but have them costed as armoured! FoGAM did that at Roll Call very successfully!
2) Keep the Early C16th to Western armies - it worked well at RC but having a minimum number of Cavalry really put paid to a number of Armies like Henrician, Scottish and Irish and virtually forced players into Maximilian (except of course Alasdair!).
3) Great - been dying to see an American theme. Keep it to C16th, Southern and Central American and allow no armoured foot plus a limit on Mounted bases! No more than four european BG allies allowed.

Great set of starters for 10 though!

Don

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Theme Thoughts

Post by madlemmey » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:33 pm

Like period 1, it was a Swede fest last year though...
Period two: there are a lot of Early competitions this year (Warfare last year, Rollcall, Campaign, Southern League Southampton round), maybe a slight shift of theatre/date? Friends and enemies of Ferdinand II? Dutch Wars of Liberation? French Civil Wars?
Period 3: 15th Century Americas would be brilliant, but it has the downside of it rules out a lot of lists I would want to use. No Mapuche/Huron/Iroquois/Plains Indians with cavalry, but does allow Aztecs! Maybe restrict by theatre rather than date? Say: Americans only?
Otherwise all good and I'm up for it!

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Theme Thoughts

Post by viking123 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:26 pm

I would love period 3 to be all America and include 17th Century but no Colonial troops.

Taking the point made by Will why not make period 2 late 17th Century. We do not often get the chance to put LoA Anglo-Dutch on the table.

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Theme Thoughts

Post by urbanbunny1 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:58 pm

I'd go with period 2 as being late century as well. Maybe restrict it to armies from Duty and Glory so that you don't get any really odd armies choices.

We've had a few Keil based comps recently, so, let's get the later stuff on the table. Maybe make it a bit more interesting since it's all in period and allow people to upgrade some of their average horse to superior. Might mean that LoA armies take something other than foot.

Just a thought....

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Theme Thoughts

Post by RonanTheLibrarian » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:34 am

There have been a few late 17thC competitions in the past 18 months, but they have all been doubles - can't recall any singles at all. The last two (Devizes and Usk) both allowed players to introduce superior horse into otherwise average cavalry lists, but were dominated by eastern Europeans and assorted orientals.
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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Theme Thoughts

Post by quackstheking » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:32 am

Period 3 in Derby last year was a late competition and of the 8 armies 5 were Later Swedes - boring! In 2013 it was late also . How about a middle eastern theme or possibly Eastern European?

Don

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Theme Thoughts

Post by kevinj » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:56 am

Thank you for all the quick input. I'd like to nail things down before the end of the month so we can continue the debate for a bit longer. To summarise what I'm feeling form the comments so far:

1) 25mm is good. Introducing restrictions on Superiors seems popular (although it would require me to paint more figures to fill out y only 25mm army :( ). I'm a little concerned that it would result in a glut of TYW French armies, so any views on that would be appreciated. Last year we had 3 Later TYW German, 2 TYW French, and 1 each of Late 80YW Dutch, Early TYW Swedish and a Later Imperial Spanish.

2) More support so far for a late theme than early. The early theme would need to be different from Roll Call. A late theme could allow some Superior Mounted to those currently denied them. I would like to have something different to last year where the mix was 5 Later Swedish and 1 each of Later Russian, Later Louis XIV French and L of A Anglo Dutch. Personally I find plenty of opportunity to use the Anglo Dutch, but that's probably more down to having bought Mr Lurkio's excellent figures and putting a lot of effort into painting them!

3) Americas seems viable, which is good because Derby is one of the few tournaments where it could be. What I'm currently veering towards is American armies only (i.e. not Colonials and Buccaneers) finishing around 1640 although I could be persuaded to extend the end date if the general view of the introduction of Muskets doesn't unbalance things. I think western contingents who are part of the list (like the Arawak) would be OK and gives people a chance to consider amies that may never have been used but I'd be grateful for opinions on Colonial allies. I think I'd also consider Hawaiians as an allowable anachronism.

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Theme Thoughts

Post by madlemmey » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:02 am

Hawaii is the 50th state so should be American! :twisted: :wink:

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Theme Thoughts

Post by viking123 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:50 pm

But it was not part of America at that time. Cook did not get there until the late 18th Century and it's flag has the Union Flag on it.
"Hawaii was once an independent kingdom. (1810 - 1893) The flag was designed at the request of King Kamehameha I. It has eight stripes of white, red and blue that represent the eight main islands. The flag of Great Britain is emblazoned in the upper left corner to honour Hawaii's friendship with the British."

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Theme Thoughts

Post by madlemmey » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:26 pm

There's a theme, friends and enemies of Captain Cook!
Boats compulsory..,

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Theme Thoughts

Post by viking123 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:20 pm

That would be another off the wall theme - only armies that had boats/ships.

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Theme Thoughts

Post by madlemmey » Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:50 pm

I just had to look:
Armies with naval/navel units are...
Later Henrician, Early Dutch 80 Year War, Buccaneers, Korean, Early Imperial Spanish, Later 80 Years Dutch, 30 years war Penninsula Spanish, Early Louis XIV French!!
A lot of those are English provided too!

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Theme Thoughts

Post by charles » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:30 am

quackstheking wrote:Period 3 in Derby last year was a late competition and of the 8 armies 5 were Later Swedes - boring! In 2013 it was late also . How about a middle eastern theme or possibly Eastern European?
Don
And you have the option to limit the number of army at two maximum per pool. It's just and idea.
Denis

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Theme Thoughts

Post by madaxeman » Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:30 am

No Pirates!?!?
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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Theme Thoughts

Post by kevinj » Fri May 13, 2016 7:56 am

Thanks to everyone for their input, I have now submitted the themes for this year:

Pools and Themes for 2016

Pools will be themed as follows:
Pool 1. 25mm/28mm scale.
Turmoil in Europe. Europe during the Thirty Years War (TYW) and English Civil War (ECW). 1618 – 1649. 700 Points.
Permitted Armies:
Wars of Religion: Any army.
Clash of Empires: Cossack, Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth, Later Ottoman Turkish, Early Gustavan Swedish.
This pool will use 25mm armies with a 40mm Movement Unit for Movement, Shooting and Command distances and a 1 inch Movement Unit for Terrain, Deployment and Threatened Flank effects.
Armies must contain at least as many BGs of Average or Poor battle troops as there are Superior or Elite BGs for both Foot and Mounted categories. Artillery and Commanded Shot are not included for the purposes of this calculation.

Pool 2. 15mm scale.
The end of Chivalry. Europe 1494 – 1560. 850 Points.
Permitted Armies:
Trade and Treachery: Any army valid for the pool dates that can comply with the other pool restrictions.
Clash of Empires: Early Ottoman Turkish, Hungarian, Early Venetian Colonial, Wallachian etc, Early Polish, Early Lithuanian, Kalmar Union, Knights of St John, Early Imperial Austrian, Early Danish, Vasa Swedish, Later Imperial Austrian.
Armies must contain at least as many BGs of Average or Poor battle troops as there are Superior or Elite BGs for both Foot and Mounted categories. Artillery and Commanded Shot are not included for the purposes of this calculation.

Pool 3. 15mm scale.
The New World. The Americas and beyond. 1494 - 1642. 850 points.
Permitted Armies:
Cities of Gold: Any except European or African based armies. Buccaneers are regarded as European.
Colonies and Conquest: Maori and Pacific Island Cultures, Hawaiian.

European troops are allowed if they are included within a permitted list or as allied contingents.

Tournament Specific Conditions

Armies and the options chosen must be within the specified dates (inclusive) for the pool. Allies may be included from lists not specified but the overall army must still conform to any pool specific restriction.
For all pools the army must include 6 bases of Foot Battle troops (in BGs of 6 or greater) per base of Medium or Heavy Artillery.
Medium or Heavy Artillery may not be deployed so that it can shoot at any Battlegroup wholly within the outer 12 inch area of the table. In other words, it would need to be deployed at least 12 inches plus 2 base widths from the edge and not be angled so that it could shoot into the 12 inch area.
An Uncontrolled Artillery BG may be removed in the JAP by either player provided they have a BG of Battle Troops, any part of whose front edge is in contact with the artillery, and which is not in close combat with any other BG. If removed, it counts as lost to the original owner
Pool Points
Each pool has a nominal limit as shown above. However, players may donate up to 5 unused points to the other players in their team; e.g. A Pool 2 army is 844 points, the other players in that team may use up to 5 of those points in excess of the nominal maximum. No army may exceed the nominal limit by more than 10 points. No Team’s three armies may exceed 2400 points in total.

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Themes confirmed

Post by kevinj » Mon May 30, 2016 6:33 pm

The Themes and entry details have now been posted on the Derby Wargames Associates website at: http://www.worldwargames.co.uk/

I have been informed that space is likely to be very tight this year. We have been allocated 18 places (i.e. 6 teams, we have had 8 every year so far) initially, but more should become available on a first come first served basis. If you want to come please send an entry as soon as possible.

Cheers,

Kevin

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Themes confirmed

Post by viking123 » Tue May 31, 2016 8:43 am

The "Misfits" will be there again. Entry went off today and payment yesterday via paypal.

Bob

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Themes confirmed

Post by kevinj » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:31 pm

We have 4 teams entered so far. This means that only 2 of the definite places that we have been allocated are still available. More places may become available later, but there is no guarantee.

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Re: Derby World Teams, 1/2 October 2016 - Themes confirmed

Post by RonanTheLibrarian » Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:30 pm

My club was going to enter a team, but the other two have both dropped out. However, I am still available with an "Early Henrician in France 1513" army if any team needs a third player.

Don't all rush now...... :D
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