new game ideas

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basics
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new game ideas

Post by basics » Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:24 pm

Dear Iain,

With so many talented mod makers producing exciting additions for games why not release alternatives for your games as well as the games themselves. As it is not possible to incorporate all mods into one game would it be possible to produce some games that have the different mods incorporated to add to your range. This would not only expand the range but increase your sales into the bargain if it could be worked. It certainly would make life easier for those of us who do not understand the workings of modding and make new and exciting alternatives available at perhaps the price of an expansion pack. Of course it is just a thought that may help thrust Slitherine that bit further along what is a very competative market and as no one is doing it then Slitherine might just have a first in the marketplace.
Yours,
Ross McHarg or basics.

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Post by IainMcNeil » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:48 am

We'd certainly be interested in the idea, but for a mod to be sellable it would need to be very high quality. It's very hard to create mods like that because the feedback is pretty limited and people often give up in frustration when things go wrong. We'd also need teh mod creators to give us permission to sell on the mods.

One biug issue is the support we'd have to provide. We just dont have enough people to spend time helping out modders and I dont know how far they will get on their own.

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Post by aurelian2 » Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:13 pm

Dear Iain,

I have been playing COW and Legion for quite some time now. Recently I got into modding. You may remember that I posted in the old forum requesting the Legion skins a couple of weeks ago. The way the files are set up by Slitherine modding is quite easy, even for a non-IT guy like me. Other game companies like CDV were quite successful in bringing developments of their initial releases to the market.(e.g. Cossacks, Sudden Strike series were official as well as unofficial add-ons were published). In my opinion, a rerelease of Legion based on the COW engine would generate a lot of interest. I do not think it would be quite difficult to create, since most of the components are already written.(The Roman mod, the map pack.) In order to set up a game that meets quality standards that go beyond a simple mod only a few things need to be altered.(e.g. renaming Cities, Roman bulidings etc.) I really would like to support Slitherine in creating something like that. I do not think that I would need so much support in editing the files. A rerelase of Legion before your new games Legion II and Arena hit the market may be able to generate a lot of interest for Slitherine games and quite some revenues.

Best regards,

Aurelian

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Post by IainMcNeil » Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:02 pm

Thanks Aurelian, it does sound interesting :)

We are planning to release Legion/Legion Gold in the near future for digital download as well as Chariots of War. I don't know how much work would be required to get Legion into the CoW engine, but I'll have a look and see!

I guess the problem would then be - what do we call it! We've got Legion, Legion Gold, Legion Arena & Legion II. Its already way too confusing!

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Post by aurelian2 » Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:52 pm

Hi Iain,

I am glad that you like my idea. Let me cite my example from my last post again - CDV. In their Sudden Strike Series they got Sudden strike, Sudden Strike II, Sudden Strike Resource war, Hidden Stroke I & II(unoffical add-ons) and I guess even two more games. Fans of CDV products are going to buy every relase because they are keen to see the new features which are integrated in their favourite game. The same concept could work for Slitherine. If you transfer Legion to the COW engine you would be able to create quite an interesting game that adds features not seen in the classic Legion before.(like e.g. the pilum-throwing soldiers). The player would also be able to put larger armies in to the field (up to 124 men per unit compared to only 80 in Legion). I tried to remod Lt1956 Roman mod a little bit and got some nice results(bigger units, more Roman units(the skins I requested) and Roman era city names, and garrison squads that are in conformity with the side you play. - the only thing I did not like about Legion was that you could not change the type of soldiers you have in a particular city and you are ending up with mixed German-Roman armies). At the moment I am editing the cities and sides files of each campaign in order to create more historic missions. The only thing that I was not able to handle was to edit the .pcx files like Lt did. If I would know what software to use in order to romanize the bulidings and the UI icons, I could almost do it on my own. By the way I noticed that on the backside of the U.S. COW box there is a screenshot that shows some buildings from Legion in the COW city area. Do you have the files for this engine anyway? - than it would be even more of a milk run!

Greetings,

Aurelian

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Post by efthimios » Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:08 pm

Hmm, have you played Cold War Conflicts? Have you checked the forums of that game. Any idea when any patch will be released for that game? I wouldn't go as far to say that those who have tried the games in the sudden strike "series" will buy any game they release without second thought. :wink:
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Post by IainMcNeil » Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:31 pm

I dont really know what we have - its years ago for us :)

basics
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Post by basics » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:10 pm

Dear Iain,
I was of the understanding that any mods became the property of the gamemaker as per copyright/licence. I believe it to be the case regarding modding with RTW. This is something that your legal boys would have to look at. Regarding the quality of certain mods, you are quite right that some leave a lot to be desired. However there are some very talented guys out there who have modded with RTW and the results are excellent. For example there is the Total Realism mod, the Cherry Vanilla mod and a new one called Europa Barbarorum Status mod which promises well. Perhaps getting in touch with them and or viewing their work would let you see their qualities but certainly talking to them could never hurt, especially if a little carrot was dangled before their eyes. I see this as an opportunity for you that perhaps may not indulge in great expenditure and one that could open another market for you. By the way we have all your games as well as RTW and still consider them excellent but we await Legion II with great impatience. Like all games once you have done them you look for things like mods that will give them a new challenge. The one drawback is that you give very full maps whereas RTW doesn??™t so perhaps this may be an incentive for you to keep something back making expansion at a later date more financially viable, and allowing the modder to use his initiative. Since this seems to be the way forward, in that players want to indulge in adding to what they buy I do hope that you will come up with something for them but never forgetting that for starters new players want the game winnable. Then once done progress to the next level and so forth follows. Sales depend on enjoyment and enjoyment means playability something the experienced players forget since they don??™t have to market the dashed things. RTW I feel has fallen into that same trap where even from the beginning large armies in size and number suddenly appear to oppose the player even at the easiest level making the thing look silly. Some of their maps can be literally covered with armies that no city/nation state could possibly support but thanks to the modders some of these things have been rectified. So without rabbiting on endlessly I look forward very much for Legion II as this is now my only source of wargaming and another great game concerning Rome can only be a good thing. I do hope that I have been a help and if there is anything else that I can advise on don??™t hesitate to contact me.
Yours,
Ross McHarg.
PS.
I just remembered something to do with the gameplaying. With your games the options to fight are auto and self arranging with no control over fights. RTW has auto and self arranging with control over fights. Would it be possible for another first to have it all? By that I mean auto, general in charge and or player in charge. Personally I like the idea of putting my trust in my officers after arranging the army??™s disposition but my kids prefer to control all. This is an important sales point!
Again Yours,
Ross McHarg or basics.

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Post by aurelian2 » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:19 pm



Dear Efthimios,

to be quite honest I have not tried Cold War Conflicts. (I have only played Sudden Strike I,II + add-ons and an unofficial mission pack called "Biltzschlag") For that reason I don??t know anything about the problems of that particular game nor have I checked out any relevant forums. It may well be that my example was not that good. But I am quite convinced that I would not face a similar problem with a Sltherine game since there have always been proper patches available on the website, so I would not have any second thoughts buying one of their products! :)

Cheers,

Aurelian

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Post by IainMcNeil » Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:56 am

In Legion Arena/Legion II you will be able to control units in battle, though the plan is to limit how often you can issue orders so that it does not become a click fest. The original plan will probably still be the most important decision you make.

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Post by slackker » Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:24 pm

nvr played legion but based on the gates of troy experience, some parts of the UI can be improved, i'll list some here and check whether have ur implemented it ;)

1.clicking on a city to select the visiting army, then clicking on the icon to create new stacks seem a little too much ;)
perhaps a more graphical approach, one click on the city and u will be able to see all the armies available in the city. And padron my ignorance here, The full game doesnt juz have 1 garrison unit rite? in the demo it mentioned the garrison can supply max of 4 units to the visiting army. it should supply more. And there isnt a limit to garrison army. Wats in the city is the garrison army, what isn't is a field army. plus a simple click, select and move would simplify things.

2.have something to tell the player the amount of workers generated per turn, and where there are appearing. I had to cycle through cities constantly to check which have new workers. Putting this in the empire window would be nice

rite now i only got this 2. And so far i like the campaign gameplay, trade seems more customized, diplomacy options getting more advanced with better buildings and ranks is great, adds a bit of RPG flavour into it. Love the variety of methods u can deal with a foreign diplomat, beheaded a east cretan diplomat :D

and ya legion 2 will keep most of this gameplay aspects rite? i do hope so ;)
and for a less than 10 development team, i give u a 10/10 amazing what so few can do! talk abt spartans!
btw any1 has links to the battle at thermophyle? and the demo battle is tough..i lasted only 8 months! any tips?

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Post by efthimios » Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:16 pm

Depending on the colour of the name of the city in the main map and in the empire screen, you have jobs available, workers available etc etc. So it is already there, though it doesn't tell you you have new workers with a message, it does show it with a simple and very effective change of colours, check the manual if you can. :-p
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Post by IainMcNeil » Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:26 pm

We're considering making the older games open source. Specifically Legion for PC and T-Tex for GBC. Do you think there would be any interest in this?

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Post by efthimios » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:14 pm

You have made a game for the GBC? I had no idea.

I am sure it can't hurt having them open source. And if you mean free, then yes, I would be interested in Legion since I am still waiting to find the Gold version lol
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Post by slackker » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:48 am

efthimios wrote:Depending on the colour of the name of the city in the main map and in the empire screen, you have jobs available, workers available etc etc. So it is already there, though it doesn't tell you you have new workers with a message, it does show it with a simple and very effective change of colours, check the manual if you can. :-p
oh, nvr noticed that. was playing the demo btw :)
tks 4 the tip

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Post by colt45 » Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:32 am

iainmcneil wrote:We're considering making the older games open source. Specifically Legion for PC and T-Tex for GBC. Do you think there would be any interest in this?
I would love to get my hands on Legion, just so I would have a clue on the upcoming Legion II. I know there has been other companies who have done it to help promote a new game, i.e. Commandos.

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Post by IainMcNeil » Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:40 am

Open source does not mean free :)

For Legion we'd give away the source code, but not the game data, so you would still need a copy of teh game to be able to use it.

For T-Tex we'd give the whole thing away as it was never released.

Open source would give people permission to modify any aspects of the game and code they liked, but they would need our permission to sell the modifications to anyone.

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Post by hadrian » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:08 pm

When do you think you would release T-Tex? Would it be in ROM form? I really wanted this game back in 2001, and was really miffed when Eidos dropped its release, especially after all fo the hard work you guys put into it. I was hoping that you would maybe port it to mobile phones.

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Post by IainMcNeil » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:25 pm

Not on ROM's as its illegal to use them. Only Nintendo can manufacture them.

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Post by hadrian » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:24 pm

I'm sure its ok to release a ROM as long as it's not copyrighted or the people who own the rights give permission. Whatever form i'd love to see it anyway, and theres lots in the GBC/GBA community who would also too!

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