Later Imperial Spanish army

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Derros
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Post by Derros » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:28 am

those guns look nice!

Dalauppror
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Post by Dalauppror » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:54 pm

And here are 2 unirts of Spanish Cavalry...

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wkeyser
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Flags

Post by wkeyser » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:17 am

Hi
Love the figures, less so the flags. I think I know what you are trying to do with the flags and have a freind who also paints on fabric.

My problem is that most of the flags where on silk and they just do not look that course. The flags I have seen (my wife is a conservator so have seen ACW and TYW flags) they just dont look like that. I think it would look a lot more accurate if you used a fine cloth, even try Silk you can still fray the edges but it will look closer to what the flags actually looked like.

William

rbodleyscott
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Re: Flags

Post by rbodleyscott » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:37 am

wkeyser wrote:Hi
Love the figures, less so the flags. I think I know what you are trying to do with the flags and have a freind who also paints on fabric.

My problem is that most of the flags where on silk and they just do not look that course. The flags I have seen (my wife is a conservator so have seen ACW and TYW flags) they just dont look like that. I think it would look a lot more accurate if you used a fine cloth, even try Silk you can still fray the edges but it will look closer to what the flags actually looked like.
However fine a fabric you use for flags, it is always going to look too coarse - it's a nice idea but it doesn't work in practice - just think how pixellated a .JPG would look if you enlarged it 70 times in each direction.

Dalauppror
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Post by Dalauppror » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:36 pm

I tryed finer cloth but I didn´t think it worked so good, got to "floppy" I like to be able to bend the flags in a shape I like.

I have now painted the last unit for this army, at least at the moment, will have to try it out on the gaming table to get a idea about wath to add. All tactical advise of how to play this army are wellcome...

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my 4th commander

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The 5th Tercio

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2 units of dragoons
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Dalauppror
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Post by Dalauppror » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:22 am

and some pictures of the complete army...

2 guns, 75 mounted and 200 foot minis painted in 40 days :D ....and making the linnen flags...

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mbsparta
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Post by mbsparta » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:34 pm

I have enjoyed watching you paint this army! You did a fantastic job. I hate to see it finished. Great painting and in such a short time!

Captain Alatriste
(Mike B)

Dalauppror
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Post by Dalauppror » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:10 am

Thanks Captain Alatriste

I´m glad that you like my project, I will soon start up a 1500th centery project, but I think that will be for Impetus you can follow that at my blog www.dalauppror.blogspot.com

I will post some pictures and a AAR then I have had my first game with the army...

Best regards Dalauppror
Image

robertthebruce
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Post by robertthebruce » Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:39 pm

Awesome army and very nice flags, but you can be sure that the emperor will execute the standard bearers, the sacred banners can´t be kept in this condition.

Sarmaticus
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Post by Sarmaticus » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:58 pm

robertthebruce wrote:Awesome army and very nice flags, but you can be sure that the emperor will execute the standard bearers, the sacred banners can´t be kept in this condition.
Tattered flags were a mark of distinction (see the rags that were cherished by Gustavus' regiments in Brzezinski's Osprey). In the old mercenary companies, soldiers swore an oath on the flag and at disbandment the flag was ripped from it's staff and the oath was over (see Delbruck).

Gbrios
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Post by Gbrios » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:14 am

Sarmaticus wrote:
robertthebruce wrote:Awesome army and very nice flags, but you can be sure that the emperor will execute the standard bearers, the sacred banners can´t be kept in this condition.
Tattered flags were a mark of distinction (see the rags that were cherished by Gustavus' regiments in Brzezinski's Osprey). In the old mercenary companies, soldiers swore an oath on the flag and at disbandment the flag was ripped from it's staff and the oath was over (see Delbruck).
Not in Spanish army.
Gonzo

http://swordofsahagun.blogspot.com (English version)
http://espadadesahagun.blogspot.com (Version en español)

robertthebruce
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Post by robertthebruce » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:37 pm

Gbrios wrote:
Sarmaticus wrote:
robertthebruce wrote:Awesome army and very nice flags, but you can be sure that the emperor will execute the standard bearers, the sacred banners can´t be kept in this condition.
Tattered flags were a mark of distinction (see the rags that were cherished by Gustavus' regiments in Brzezinski's Osprey). In the old mercenary companies, soldiers swore an oath on the flag and at disbandment the flag was ripped from it's staff and the oath was over (see Delbruck).
Not in Spanish army.

Yes, the battle icons were almost sacred for the spanish. Actually there is the same feeling in the spanish militar tradition.


I see that lot of people who paint imperial armies, use a lot reds and yellows in the cloths and banners, this is not entirely historical. The banners were very assorted in colours, the cross of burgundy was the most typical icon, in red with white background, but there was burgundian cross with green, white and blue, black... ect colours.


The imperial coat of arms in yellow background and over the cross of burgundy is essential in a imperial army to looks fine :D

Montesa
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Post by Montesa » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:10 pm

robertthebruce wrote:
Gbrios wrote:
Sarmaticus wrote: Tattered flags were a mark of distinction (see the rags that were cherished by Gustavus' regiments in Brzezinski's Osprey). In the old mercenary companies, soldiers swore an oath on the flag and at disbandment the flag was ripped from it's staff and the oath was over (see Delbruck).
Not in Spanish army.

Yes, the battle icons were almost sacred for the spanish. Actually there is the same feeling in the spanish militar tradition.


I see that lot of people who paint imperial armies, use a lot reds and yellows in the cloths and banners, this is not entirely historical. The banners were very assorted in colours, the cross of burgundy was the most typical icon, in red with white background, but there was burgundian cross with green, white and blue, black... ect colours.


The imperial coat of arms in yellow background and over the cross of burgundy is essential in a imperial army to looks fine :D
With the battle of Pavia, Spanish starts to use the burgundy cross on the banners, quite simple. With Felipe II it starts to use borders and to complicated
them.
At the frescoe of Sala de Batalla (Battle of San Quintin) there is only two flags with none cross: one is of red and yellow stripes and
other with white and orange stripes.
One curiosity: the column of herreruelos has a round-tailed banner black with the simply red cross and four Fleur de lis.
After Felipe II all banners have the cross
From Pavia to 1632 the Army Banner (which represents the Mariscal de Campo) taken by the Alferez was with white or yellow field with the burgundy cross with
none or very few decorations (but the white field was considered the representation of the royal power).
The captains with its contract to recruit designs its own flags. the cross with differents designs and decorations some of them very complicated.
Nearly all the banners has red (very very few were without red) Mostly the cross is red. Red was the colour of the Hapsburg or the Austrias.
A example it could be a red banner with a blue cross.
At the ordenanza of 1632 it is imposed as army standard a red flag with its anverse with a Virgin Mary and its reverse with a white burgundy cross.
After 1643 with a new ordenanza, it returns to the white standard with the red cross. None yellow.
None flag were halved or quartered.

The ordenanzas says that they were given red leggings (encarnadas) but with the use they weared.
All the soldiers reused the cloths taken from pillage favored by the commanders because they said that gives morale to the soldiers.
Red was favored tso in some manner to distinguih from the enemies at combat.

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Re: Flags

Post by hazelbark » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:32 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
wkeyser wrote:Hi
Love the figures, less so the flags. I think I know what you are trying to do with the flags and have a freind who also paints on fabric.

My problem is that most of the flags where on silk and they just do not look that course. The flags I have seen (my wife is a conservator so have seen ACW and TYW flags) they just dont look like that. I think it would look a lot more accurate if you used a fine cloth, even try Silk you can still fray the edges but it will look closer to what the flags actually looked like.
However fine a fabric you use for flags, it is always going to look too coarse - it's a nice idea but it doesn't work in practice - just think how pixellated a .JPG would look if you enlarged it 70 times in each direction.
Paint them on silk then.

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