Obsolete

[ericdoman1]

Agreed on nearly all counts

Not sure about a KO comp as you have yours.

As for west and east med, maybe have 1101Ad to 1300AD and 1301AD to 1500AD

Otherwise my suggestion based on your ideas is to have an LOEG Swiss sytsem comp.

4 to 6 games in total (that is evrybody can play 4 to 6 games)

Using the % casualties as the scoring system and a random draw for the first round. You would need an even number of players.

After the first game players with the same % casualties inflicted will play one another and so on. I would even go so far as to have a max of 10 to 12 turns. Having played TT comps this system has brought up a number of surprise top 3 spots as sometimes the really good players generally get draws.

Downside is the extra organisation (I don't mind doing that though) and the need for a better a better scoring system, based on there being more draws.

If 2 players have a draw, due to terrain for example the scores might be 10% vs 8%. Therefore they would quite probably be out of contention then.

Have pmd Steve with suggestions and hoping that he will be able to help with the spreadsheet format, adding to it, posting it etc. Also hoping he may be able to play 1 or 2 divisions as well.

[ericdoman1]

Hi Hidde

I am with Pete here about dropping the super league. I think you and I have discussed it in the past as well. Agreeing upon digital players preferring more historical periods. Also as we have all noticed there has been only a small number of players involved.

Thanks for your help (I was expecting it form you )

I think Wolves from the Sea will be the next addition/list/book and then I would think there will be a true Dark AGes period, prob 494 AD to 900ADish

Would love the Swifter than Eagles book to be next though.

[stockwellpete]

Not sure about a KO comp as you have yours.

Well, I ran the current knock-out tournament as a trial effort really - just to see how well it would work. I think that it has been quite successful and now that we have the AAR and we had regular updates from your semi-final, it really is ending on a high note. But I am quite happy to "donate" the cup competition to LOEG - and then I wouldn't try and run another one outside of LOEG. Perhaps that could be my area of responsibility (from season 9 onwards, I mean, if Steve no longer has the time).

As for west and east med, maybe have 1101Ad to 1300AD and 1301AD to 1500AD

Yes, you could do that, although the more you split up the divisions the more likely you are to have smaller number of entrants and the inherent difficulties of making viable divisions with promotion and relegation. I think two medieval sections 1100-1500 (western Europe) and 1100-1500 (eastern Europe and central Asia) would work very well and attract 20+ entrants each.

Otherwise my suggestion based on your ideas is to have an LOEG Swiss sytsem comp.

4 to 6 games in total (that is evrybody can play 4 to 6 games)

Using the % casualties as the scoring system and a random draw for the first round. You would need an even number of players.

After the first game players with the same % casualties inflicted will play one another and so on. I would even go so far as to have a max of 10 to 12 turns. Having played TT comps this system has brought up a number of surprise top 3 spots as sometimes the really good players generally get draws.

Downside is the extra organisation (I don't mind doing that though) and the need for a better a better scoring system, based on there being more draws.

If 2 players have a draw, due to terrain for example the scores might be 10% vs 8%. Therefore they would quite probably be out of contention then.

I would be against this for LOEG, Eric. Upto now LOEG has been a 500pt league tournament. I think you should run a separate Swiss-system competition, maybe after the Companions Cup has finished, so that players can see how it all works. It is certainly a very interesting idea, but it is quite different from the traditions of LOEG.

[ericdoman1]

OK

so the usual Classical and Imperial period. Again a suggestion here. A dark ages period 493 AD to 1100AD (had a quick check and players will be spoilt for choice) A Medieval period from 1101 AD to 1500AD and a ko comp based on your format, all periods.

Have copied and pasted Season 7 recruitment stuff and placed it in a folder on the desktop.

Again if we are agreed upon these dates, how do you copy and paste lists from daf onto word.

I have this

Season 7 Recruitment - Early Medieval (Closed)
by pantherboy » 23 Jun 2011 15:18

Each player is required to select a specific army list (e.g. Early Armenian – Tigran the Great) from the appropriate DAG (ROR, SOA, IF & SAS) and post it to the appropriate thread for their Division (e.g. Season 6 Recruitment - 600 BC to 26 BC). In each Division no two players are permitted to field an identical list though each variant may be fielded by a different player. For example one player may select Bosporan (early) while another takes Bosporan (mid) and finally a third player opts for Bosporan (late). Each season players are not allowed to reselect an army list they have chosen in a previous season until they have played 5 different lists with each list originating from a different nation. I wish to encourage variety within the league and broaden players play styles.

When posting your selection you are required to make a 1st, 2nd and 3rd preference. Players will be awarded their choice based upon their ranking. Lower ranked players will receive their 1st preference while the highest ranked players will often receive only their 2nd or 3rd choice and oft times be required to make a 4th selection.

This Season there will be no mirror matches. Each round you will field a 500pt army from your own list. You are free to customize the army before each battle.

Please submit posts in the following format showing your preferences:

1. Early Armenian – Tigran the Great (this is an example only)
2. Mid-Republican Roman
3. Later Carthaginian (pre 235BC)

Cheers and welcome to the League.

Steve

The following is a list of armies available:

Early Medieval 1100 AD to 1300 AD

Swords & Scimitars DAG
Early Crusader 1100 – 1120 AD
Later Crusader 1167 AD
Later Crusader (Richard I) 1191 – 1292 AD
Fatamid Egyptian (later) 1167 AD
Georgian 1027 – 1117 AD
Georgian 1124 – 1243 AD
Seljuk Turk (Rum) 1256 – 1276 AD
Seljuk Turk (Eastern) 1153 AD
Cuman 1122 – 1269 AD
Komnenan Byzantine (later) 1150 – 1204 AD
Cilician Armenian 1150 – 1246 AD
Syrian States (early) 1092 – 1120 AD
Syrian States 1246 AD
Syrian States (later) 1150 – 1286 AD
Khwarazmian 1156 – 1246 AD
Ayyubid Egyptian (early) 1156 – 1193 AD
Ayyubid Egyptian (later) 1244 – 1245 AD
Middle Serbian 1180 – 1300 AD
Middle Bulgarian (early) 1186 – 1195 AD
Middle Bulgarian (later) 1236 – 1261 AD
Nikaian Byzantine 1204 – 1261 AD
Epirot Byzantine 1204 – 1261 AD
Trebizond Byzantine 1204 – 1261 AD
Latin Greece (early) 1204 – 1261 AD
Latin Greece (later) 1265 – 1489 AD
Ilkhanid Mongol 1260 – 1308 AD
Mamluk Egyptian (early) 1250 – 1285 AD

Storm of Arrows DAG
Swiss (early) 1291 – 1359 AD

Eternal Empires DAG
Golden Horde (early) 1242 – 1258 AD
Central Byzantine (early) 1282 - 1283 AD
Byzantine Epiros (early) 1276 - 1291 AD
Byzantine Epiros 1292 AD
Later Russian (early) 1265 - 1379 AD

BUT how do you get the colours and so on

[stockwellpete]

OK

so the usual Classical and Imperial period. Again a suggestion here. A dark ages period 493 AD to 1100AD (had a quick check and players will be spoilt for choice) A Medieval period from 1101 AD to 1500AD and a ko comp based on your format, all periods.

OK, sounds good for Season 9, Eric. My own preference would be to run Season 8 exactly as Season 7 while Steve's role as organiser of LOEG is still uncertain - but that's just me. In any case, let's give it a good few days for everyone else to have a think about all this and contribute their ideas too. The other key question for us to consider is the start date for Season 8. I have suggested April 1st (recruitment to start mid-March) because there are a lot of other tournaments running at the moment.

Also, as you know, I built my KO competition by sending out invitations by PM. Whether that is something we could do with LOEG during the recruitment period is something else to consider - it doesn't take long at all, just agree the wording for the invitation, distribute it among the "convenors" and they can c+p it into 10, 15, 20 messages. Just give the "convenors" parts of the alphabet to do (e.g. usernames A-F, G-M, N-S, T-Z) to avoid any duplication.

[ericdoman1]

We would need to include DAF.

Dates are from 416AD to 1400AD but the vast majority of armies are from 493 AD to 1000AD.

So what do you the players think.

For certain a classical, imperial and later medieval period. Then what?

Wolves from Molineux (the SEa) will hopefully appear end of March.

I persoanlly would like to include DAF armies in a period but we shall see

[Fedem]

I would be against this for LOEG, Eric. Upto now LOEG has been a 500pt league tournament. I think you should run a separate Swiss-system competition, maybe after the Companions Cup has finished, so that players can see how it all works. It is certainly a very interesting idea, but it is quite different from the traditions of LOEG.

I agree with Pete on that one.
The other changes seems fine but I would wait for season 9 to see if Steve is able to resume organisation or see what he thinks.

Cheers!

[ericdoman1]

Hi

The swiss sytem thingy has been discarded.

Once more we have Classical, Imperial and Later Med.

Super league and Early Med had limited number of players so we are looking to replace the Super League (I have done quite well in that) with an LOEG KO comp and then who knows. Again these are suggestions from other players

As I have mentioned I would like to include armies from DAF and have a dark ages/early med period from 494 AD to 1100AD or some similar time periods then we could have armies from LT, DAF and SAS. Again I will go with the majority decision.

Just wait for more feedback but I would like there to be a season 8. Having said that I am playing more FOG-TT so I don't mind leaving season 8 blank and wait for season 9 and hope that Steve will be OK.

Did I just say that, leave season 8 blank. Look I need my LOEG fix so might be worth pming various people as Pete has suggested.

I have got a bit of time on my hands at the mo so that is why I am willing to help out not only with the LOEG but as I have already done with the Comp Cup.

[Fedem]

Maybe we could make season 8 similar to season 7 and then wait to see what happens with season 9.

Tks for yr help Eric. I would help but my knowledge for excel is just moderate.

[stockwellpete]

If we can just look ahead a bit too - in future, if we decide to run LOEG on a slightly stricter 4-month cycle that would allow a 3-month playing season (about what we have now) and a 1-month closed season (where we did all the administration, ratings etc and then the recruitment for the next season), then a schedule for the rest of the year could look something like this . . .

Season 8 starts 1st April 2012
Season 9 starts 1st August 2012
Season 10 starts 1st December 2012

Now, if we decide to run Season 8 exactly as Season 7 (pending Steve's final decision) then any changes to the format that we may want to make will not come in to effect until 1st August this year. By that time we will definitely have "Wolves From the Sea" and we most likely will have "Oath of Fealty" too - and Hexwar will have finished its involvement with FOG. I think this would be exactly the right time to have re-configured the divisions along the lines Eric is suggesting. I am sure that new armies will be released by Slitherine after that date, but it probably will not be in the format that we are used to now i.e. the whole of a particular TT book. Maybe they will come out as part of a campaign module, or perhaps as part of a modding module? We just don't know for sure at the moment. So it seems to me that it would be very useful if we worked out these time periods very carefully in the next few months - classical, imperial, "dark age" etc so that all the scheduled books are included in them and so that any armies released AFTER "Oath of Fealty" can easily be added to their appropriate historical category.

EDIT: I have just had a quick look at the expansions we should have by August 1st, 2012. It is a total of nine, which is slightly awkward, but maybe something as straightforward as this would work . . .

Rise of Rome/Immortal Fire (Classical)
Legions Triumphant/Decline and Fall/ Wolves from the Sea* (Imperial and "Dark Age")
Swords and Scimitars/Eternal Empire (Medieval: eastern Europe and central Asia 1100-1500)
Oath of Fealty/Storm of Arrows (Medieval: western Europe 1100-1500)

* one simple modification would be to divide these three books into two sections - Imperial and "Dark Age"

[ericdoman1]

So making season 8 identical to season 7 which means
Classical - Lots of players
Imperial - Lots of players
Early Medieval - 2 divisons only and not very big
Late Med - Massive
Super League - 1 division only

I think we may as well drop early med and super league and just have 3 divisions

Hopefully STeve will be sorted for season 9 and then we can incorporate Wolves from the Sea and DAF.

Like the idea of a KO comp but again it isn't really a league.

[Fedem]

Do not why Early Med not so popular. Nice armies there. I particularly like the Crusades period.

[stockwellpete]

I see what you mean about "Decline and Fall", Eric - I didn't realise that it wasn't in Season 7. So for Season 8 it could go with Legions Triumphant and those armies from the ROR and IF DAG's in with LT at the moment could go back to "Classical". That would work OK, wouldn't it?

[ericdoman1]

Yep.

That's why I would like to see a Dark AGes/ Early Med period, again 494 AD to 1100 AD. The reasoning behind this is that plate armour/heavy armour appeared about 1150ADish. A number of years a comp had included a period which was supposedly Feudal but included an army that could have heavy armour because they made period upto 1200AD. As you would imagine nearly everybody took along that army. You would still have knights in this period but armoured only. The Later Med period would be 1101 AD to 1500AD.

With the present Imperial period it ends in 495AD, that would include the Early Byzantines (493ad to 550ad) and so I feel that the Imperial period should end in 493AD, end of Western Rome but the beginning of Byzantium

Later Med is spoilt for choice in that you have ETE and SOA, with quite a lot of armies from SAS as well

I have Wolves and Oath TT books.

OOF is a mixture of SOA, SAS and ETE but would have one of my all time fave armies. The Fanatic Berbers.

Played the latter in a TT comp and did OK with it

[stockwellpete]

That's why I would like to see a Dark AGes/ Early Med period, again 494 AD to 1100 AD. The reasoning behind this is that plate armour/heavy armour appeared about 1150ADish. A number of years a comp had included a period which was supposedly Feudal but included an army that could have heavy armour because they made period upto 1200AD. As you would imagine nearly everybody took along that army. You would still have knights in this period but armoured only. The Later Med period would be 1101 AD to 1500AD.

With the present Imperial period it ends in 495AD, that would include the Early Byzantines (493ad to 550ad) and so I feel that the Imperial period should end in 493AD, end of Western Rome but the beginning of Byzantium.

So would you go?

Rise of Rome/Immortal Fire (Classical)
Legions Triumphant/a bit of Decline and Fall(Imperial)
Most of Decline and Fall/ Wolves from the Sea ("Dark Age")
Swords and Scimitars/Eternal Empire (Medieval: eastern Europe and central Asia 1100-1500)
Oath of Fealty/Storm of Arrows (Medieval: western Europe 1100-1500)

Later Med is spoilt for choice in that you have ETE and SOA, with quite a lot of armies from SAS as well

I have Wolves and Oath TT books.

OOF is a mixture of SOA, SAS and ETE but would have one of my all time fave armies. The Fanatic Berbers.

Played the latter in a TT comp and did OK with it

Eric and the Fanatic Berbers! sounds like a great R+B band from the early 60s!!

[ericdoman1]

Prob like this

Rise of Rome/Immortal Fire (Classical)
ROR/IF/Legions Triumphant/a bit of Decline and Fall(Imperial)
LT (bit of)/Most of Decline and Fall/ Wolves from the Sea ("Dark Age")
OOF(bit of)/DAF/Swords and Scimitars/Eternal Empire (Medieval: eastern Europe and central Asia 1100-1500)
SAS/Oath of Fealty/Storm of Arrows (Medieval: western Europe 1100-1500)

It depends on how we would place some of the African armies. The Berbers were from Morocco, I think or whatver country in Africa is below Spain, Andalusians. They would consist mainly of lots of cav/lh prot lance sword, some armoured, lh lt pr jls, a potential horde of lf and then prot def spr. the Fanatics had sup prot drilled off spear (possibly with the option of lf support) and some superior def spr. El Cid actaully fought for the Andalusians!

I think including some of these in the West Med period would be colourful. The superior spears disappeared I think before the 12th century begun. You would only have about 6 to 8 bases of the sup off spears and prob only 2 to 4 of the sup def spears.

Had a look a the map. West med would end on Sweden, Germany, Austria and Italy. Below that you would have Tunisia, Morocco, Libya. You would only have the Fanatic Berbers and Andalusians that could be included in Later West Med. Meither would be that good, I think. They will be and have the potential of being very big though.

Also in OOF you will have Feudal Poles, Russians, Hungarians and Mongol Invasion armies. These would be included in East Med period.

So do you think we should include a Dark Ages period to make it 4 divisions?

[Tiavals]

I would guess that the reason for a low number of participants in the Early Medieval is because casual players can join only 2 of the divisions. And frankly, the Early Medieval is perhaps the most boring era, so naturally people will choose the other divisions. For example, rules-wise, I could only join 2 divisions in the last LOEG since I was a first timer, but I'd certainly wanted to play in all of the divisions. I had to choose the Classical and Imperial because of that. I'm sure many others had the same scenario.

[ericdoman1]

Tiavals

Yep good point.

Well you are now a vet so you can play in all divisions, I believe.

had noted that in a number of the divisions, quite a few players had a number of games to go.

Maybe all those who are beginning/casual can start on 2 divisions but if they are enjoying it and have more time available could enter 1 or more additional divisions later on?

[stockwellpete]

Prob like this

Rise of Rome/Immortal Fire (Classical)
ROR/IF/Legions Triumphant/a bit of Decline and Fall(Imperial)
LT (bit of)/Most of Decline and Fall/ Wolves from the Sea ("Dark Age")
OOF(bit of)/DAF/Swords and Scimitars/Eternal Empire (Medieval: eastern Europe and central Asia 1100-1500)
SAS/Oath of Fealty/Storm of Arrows (Medieval: western Europe 1100-1500)

Yes, I like that very much, Eric.

So do you think we should include a Dark Ages period to make it 4 divisions?

I am not quite sure what you mean, Eric. You have outlined 5 categories above, so that is 5 divisions. I think that would be excellent as long as we can pull in enough players. And I don't think that we would really need a knock-out competition as well, unless a lot of players really wanted it. If you have those 5 basic categories from Season 9 onwards then any subsequent armies that are released by Slitherine can be allocated to the appropriate one for them. I think that looks really well-balanced. It would be interesting to hear what other players think about it.

[ericdoman1]

Well we will have classical, imperial and late med.

It has been agreed to some extent that early med was not a success and that we should include DAF.

Therefore have a dark ages period, just change dates to 494 AD to 1100ad and include DAF/LT/SAS. I would feel confident enough to say this will be a biggish period, as you will now have the Byzantines and the various early Arabic armies. Also as I have mentioned before you will not have superior, ha, knights

Late Med will be 1101 ad to 1500 ad

Just stick with 4 divisions for the time being. We could go with a super league and use that system of yours about contacting potential players. As a thought why don't we (you) do that now by spreading the word and getting feedback.

eSeason 8 starts in April. The sooner you/we start promoting it, hopefully/logically we should have more players.

Wondering if we could have a link where there would be a list of all previous players of LOEG

Hopefully STeve will be sorted for season 9 and then see what happens.