Fixed Army Lists for Season 11

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Would you like Season 11 to use fixed lists?

Yes
18
64%
No
10
36%
 
Total votes: 28

pantherboy
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Fixed Army Lists for Season 11

Post by pantherboy » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:11 am

This is a poll for whether to use fixed army lists or not. Personally I'd like to implement this rule as it is common practice in tournaments to submit a single army list to use for all matches. This will help balance discrepancies between the better and weaker lists. Lists with so many options are difficult to plan against and they possess so much versatility that they can often beat a number of other lists purely based upon this versatility. Also from an administrative game point it is a lot quicker and easier to set up one's matches if you don't need to rebuild for each opponent. My intent for Season 11 is to enforce all players setting up their 5 matches for the first round within the first week. I feel this will help with game completion and as such fixed lists would be a boon to this endeavour. You may change your vote at any time. Feel free to make posts regarding this topic on this thread.

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Re: Fixed Army Lists for Season 11

Post by ianiow » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:59 pm

Although it is fun (and skilful) to modify your army to fit the opposition, it is just as skilful (and historical) to muster and take a balanced army on a campaign (which essentially this series of battles is). The downside is that if you cock up the initial makeup of your army you can't change it! :shock:

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Re: Fixed Army Lists for Season 11

Post by Tiavals » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:47 am

Fixed lists has good and bad points, that's for sure. Usually real life tournaments have fixed lists because they generally play the games in a short period of time, and making different lists is more time consuming and expensive, as they must use real models. FOG doesn't have most of these limits, so it's refreshing that you can remake your list for every game. That said, we could experiment with fixed lists and see how it feels. It certainly gives a chance for some armies that otherwise wouldn't have one, mainly those that have a huge weakness, since the enemy can't exploit that weakness by precisely choosing the right units for the match, instead having to use a fixed list. So for one Season, I'm up for trying it.

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Re: Fixed Army Lists for Season 11

Post by Turk1964 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:44 am

Hi all
I'm totally against fixed armies because once there fixed that's it. Its ok for the very top players as they have an infinite understanding of the game and will set up a good flexible army. Rooky players however wont have the same knowledge and if they choose unwisely then they have had it.I just don't see the benefit of fixing an army and how will it be policed ? What's stopping a player from making some adjustments to their army and not revealing they have done so? I just think average players wont enjoy the set up you have proposed as much as the Elite will.

Cheers Turk

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Re: Fixed Army Lists for Season 11

Post by Tiavals » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:01 am

That's a very good point. Perhaps Div A should use Fixed, while the others would have flexible army lists?

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Re: Fixed Army Lists for Season 11

Post by bagration1812 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:14 am

For what it's worth, I won't play if the lists are fixed. First, there is not a way to guarantee that the list won't change short of submitting them to an arbitrator. Part of the fun, for me anyway, is adapting my list to my opponent and learning from past errors in list construction as I go along. To Turk's point, if you make a mistake in your list out of the chute and it's not competitive, what's the point of continuing? If you are going to get your clock cleaned every time out, I think a fair number of folks will drop out.

Is LoEG so broken that it requires a major overhaul or just a change of metaphorical spark plugs? There was some drama this season, but I don't think it rose to the level that dictates a total revision of the format.

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Re: Fixed Army Lists for Season 11

Post by klayeckles » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:25 am

great question....i am torn. i totally agree that some armies with lots of options and allies are highly adaptable, and that gives them an edge. yet we do play for fun. (or at least i haven't been paid much myself yet), and part of the fun is tinkering with your army. the most important goal is to keep it fun! if folks are going to drop out then that's a real issue. since it is a league of "gentlemen", there might be a gentlemen's agreement amoungst the upper div players to lock things down...but i'm not sure i'm even for that, unless the majority think that woudl be more fun. so...let's not over think the competition part and loose track of the fun part...after all, even the league winner...crowned Master of the FOG Universe...is only showing up for fun and maybe a tiny stroke of the ego.

Klay

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Re: Fixed Army Lists for Season 11

Post by stockwellpete » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:56 pm

I think that if the competition is going to have fixed lists then it would be very helpful if Steve, or one of the other top players, wrote a couple of paragraphs giving some basic advice about what the main considerations might be when using fixed lists - having a balanced selection to give your army various options being the gist of that advice. This would help the players who are new to both fixed lists and to competitive play to avoid some of the more obvious blunders.

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Re: Fixed Army Lists for Season 11

Post by Aristides » Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:56 pm

i like the idea of a change in format in this area. But I also really like the 'army building' part of a match. Could we have one or two divs with fixed armies? Then we get both 'challenges' (building the best balanced list for an army, and building the best list versus a particular opponent) and those who rlly don't ike the idea can just play in the divs with malleable lists.
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That yet for a while rivers may run clean and birds build their nests,
Ere Night comes.’

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Re: Fixed Army Lists for Season 11

Post by TheGrayMouser » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:32 pm

I voted for fixed lists , if nothing else to try something different.

Couple of point , opinions

*The advantages experienced players have w a very flexible "morphing" list is balanced out by players possibly creating a list that is not ideal they are stuck with . Theres a little give and take here

*most TT comps are run by submiting a fixed list for the comp and noone is griping in those comps ;)

* although for "fun" any comp can and will become hyper competitve over time. I believe fixed lists to some degree mitigates this.

*you might very well see armies that arnt normally used in comps w fixed lists.

*less stress having to redesign your army every match to squeeze evey benefit you can in a most a-historical way!

*since once BG's are "spotted" all their charactoristics are known, it would be quite easy to see if your opponent used an "illegal" list. Arb of such a matter would be simple, if illegal, you forfeit , unless both players agree for a rematch (ie mistakes do happen!)



**one thing I believe should be in place with fixed lists is NO PEAKS , meaning players that enter, submit their army and list and this is kept private until the comp starts.
One thing I have always felt is more gamemanship than "tactics" is when declaring you armies openely , players that declare last clearly can , and do , pick and chose armies that are best suited to handle their competitors known army choices. IF this means more than one same army in a divison, so be it!

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Re: Fixed Army Lists for Season 11

Post by Cunningcairn » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:06 am

I would favour fixed army lists.
rgrds
Martin

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