A few clarifications needed

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PoorOldSpike
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A few clarifications needed

Post by PoorOldSpike » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:40 pm

Hi guys I'm a newcomer to Pz Corps Gold and like it very much, I've been through the manual twice but there are still a few points I need clarification on so can anybody oblige?-
1- If there are no available purchase slots, can I disband units during play to free up slots?
For example I might need to buy an AT gun to prop up a sector under tank attack, so could I disband something like an armoured car to get a vacant slot?
2- What does the 'Reform units" tick box option mean?
3- What does the white flag "Neutralised" icon mean in cities exactly?
4- If an arty unit fires indirectly from a river hex does it suffer a reduction in its hitting power for having wet feet?

PS- This Slitherine forum looks the same as the Matrix forum, so which one do we use?

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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by goose_2 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:50 pm

PoorOldSpike wrote:Hi guys I'm a newcomer to Pz Corps Gold and like it very much, I've been through the manual twice but there are still a few points I need clarification on so can anybody oblige?-
1- If there are no available purchase slots, can I disband units during play to free up slots?
For example I might need to buy an AT gun to prop up a sector under tank attack, so could I disband something like an armoured car to get a vacant slot?
2- What does the 'Reform units" tick box option mean?
3- What does the white flag "Neutralised" icon mean in cities exactly?
4- If an arty unit fires indirectly from a river hex does it suffer a reduction in its hitting power for having wet feet?

PS- This Slitherine forum looks the same as the Matrix forum, so which one do we use?
1) You can disband units that are in your core, (Gold around the number of that unit) to open up an available slot.
If you disband an auxiliary unit (Gray banner around the number) you simply lose a unit
2) Reform I think is the box that saves the heroes of a unit so it will start next round as available with 0 str, so you lose all of the experience not the kill count.
3) Neutralising areas means the enemy cannot buy units at that hex.
4) Yes

Slitherine is what I moniter and Matrix I do not ;)
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turn4441
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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by turn4441 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:08 pm

Adding on to what Goose said:
1. Disbanding in game is not usually a good idea as you lose any experience that unit has and get no prestige in return. Experience (the stars a unit gets for each 100 points of experience) are very valuable as you get a +1 modifier to your unit's initiative, attack, and defense values, per star, during combat. Another problem is that you will probably have to place the unit on the map a long way from where the unit you want to replace is. In that case, hopefully you can use rail/air transport to get it there in a hurry. Typically, if you want to disband, do it between scenarios as then you get some prestige back prorated to the unit's current strength. Also, do it early, before a unit gets much experience, otherwise, again, it is all lost. This is why many players disband captured units before the next scenario. They typically have little experience, have a limited upgrade path, if any, and you get quite a bit of prestige for them.
2. Yes, reform units means lost units may be repurchased for their normal cost with 0 experience (like a new unit) but with all the unit's medals/heroes intact. The loss of the experience can be huge, but not as bad as losing both the experience and any hero bonuses which the unit has earned. This is basically another option for making the game easier/harder to your liking. If nothing else, it helps avoid the sadness that comes if you lose a favorite unit due to complacency or bad luck on a random dice roll (assuming you're not using dice chess, etc.), especially if you are playing scenarios for the first time. Then again, you can always replace them and build them back up using the cheat codes if so desired, although there isn't a cheat code to replace heroes, only experience.
4. Technically, an arty unit firing from a river does not suffer an offensive penalty. However, the defending unit gets a +4 defense bonus so, yes, the effect of the attack is diminished. It's sort of semantics. Conversely, if you attack a unit in a river hex, you get a +4 modifier to both your attack and defense values while the defending unit in the river uses it's normal values for both. I'm not sure, but in the case of indirect artillery fire at a unit in a river hex, it probably just adds 4 to the attack value as the defensive value is pointless.

As for the forums, that usually depends on which of the two was the main developer. Most games typically have more forum use on one site than the other. Panzer Corps has almost 10 time as many posts on the Slitherine forum than on the Matrix one. Personally, I prefer the Slitherine site as it just seems cleaner and easier to read to me. However, I do also look at the Matrix site for games where there is little coverage on the Slitherine site.

PoorOldSpike
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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by PoorOldSpike » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:37 pm

Thanks guys I'm saving your posts to my hard drive for reference.
Just to be crystal clear about artillery firing from a river hex,we've already established that an ADJACENT defender gets a bonus, but what if the defender is NOT adjacent and is 2 or 3 hexes away, does he still get the bonus?
And what if the defender is adjacent but he's standing in a river hex?

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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by TSPC37730 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:23 pm

One easy way to see what modifiers were used is to hit "L" right after your attack. A window will open with the last attack & defender strengths, hero & terrain bonuses, die rolls & more info. If you do that as you play you'll see how all the possible modifiers tie together. Give it a try if you haven't already.

Welcome to the game & good luck!

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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by goose_2 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:29 pm

There is also shift I think c and clicking on the unit you are going to attack and that pops up a screen that gives you the numbers behind their estimations. It has helped me gauge attacks more thoroughly before executing.
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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by huckc » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:05 pm

Ctrl + left mouse button also gives you the percent chance of a rugged defense. A key thing not factored into the normal expected results on hover.

turn4441
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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by turn4441 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:12 pm

As mentioned, after selecting your attacking unit, hold the control key and left click on whatever targets you are thinking of attacking. This will show you what modifiers are in effect for the combat and the expected odds. You can do this for as many targets as you like. Post-combat, hit the 'L' key to see the results of the combat. This is the same as what you saw before combat but now includes the dice rolls that created the results. This only shows the most recent combat so you would want to check it right away. You can also use it during the AI's turn but it's kind of hard if attacks are happening quickly unless you only care about the last combat.

Yes, a unit that is attacked by either direct or indirect fire (2 or more hexes away) from an artillery unit in a river hex, gets a +4 defense bonus. They do not get an attack bonus as they can't return fire against artillery whether adjacent or not. If they move up and attack the same artillery during their turn, then the attacker would receive +4 bonuses for both it's attack and defense as the artillery can shoot back when attacked but is still penalized for being in the river.

In another case, if you attack from a river hex with a tank or infantry unit and the defender has supporting artillery, the artillery's support fire gets a +4 attack against your unit before your attack and then the unit you're attacking gets both +4 attack and defense modifiers.

If an artillery in a river hex attacks a defender in an adjacent river hex, the artillery would get a +4 attack modifier while the defender would only get a +4 defense modifier as it can't attack the artillery until it's turn. If they do subsequently attack the artillery during their turn, as they are both in the river, then they would both get +4 attack and defense modifiers as, during this attack, the artillery can use defensive fire.

Best strategy is to keep your units out of river/bridge hexes when enemies are around.

PoorOldSpike
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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by PoorOldSpike » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:04 am

Thanks guys I'm hanging on your every word as usual but am struggling with some aspects of the maths, so can anybody interpret the screenshot below for me?
In the campaign game I conquered the Low Countries at the 4th attempt and am now about to strike at France. This is the opening screen and here are the questions-

1- There are 23 units in my core list (I counted), but why does it say 22+1?
2- It says 'Units in reserve', is the word 'Reserve' another name for 'Core'?
3- It says 'Units to deploy: 24/24', but I've only got 23 units, not 24!
4- After I deploy my 23 units there are 2 Core slots left. (cursoring over the Purchase icon gave that readout)
I've always been a maths dummy and would hate to think I'm losing battles because I can't figure out the maths..:)
To clarify, I haven't touched a thing, you're seeing the virginal opening screen as I'm seeing it.

Image

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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by Panzerpimp » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:13 am

1. 22 Regular units + 1 SE Unit.
2. Yes.
3. Possible amount of units for deployment varies in different scenarios. You have 23 units in your core; if you want you can buy additional unit(s) and deploy it.
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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by turn4441 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:53 pm

The number on the left of the 24/24 is the number of units you have left to deploy for that scenario while the number on the right is the total you can deploy. The number on the left will count down as you deploy your units. Your SE unit is the +1 part of 22+1. You can deploy this unit for free (the left number will not count down). Therefore, in this case, you can deploy 25 total units, the 24 allowed plus the 1 SE unit although if you deploy it last you won't be able to do so as the number on the left will have counted down to 0. You have 23 total units, but only 22 count toward the scenario limit of 24 so you can purchase 2 more core units. At that time you will see 24+1 in your reserve and you can then deploy all 25 as long as you don't deploy the SE unit last.

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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by PoorOldSpike » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:13 pm

Okay thanks guys, next question-
Can you give me any guidelines about whether I should I buy ordinary cheap replacement prestige points, or buy expensive Elite rep points?
For example if a 10-strength unit has been reduced to 5 strength by combat losses, and I'm very short on rep points, should I spend those points on cheap reps to get him back to full strength of '10', or should I spend them on 3 Elite points (which is all I can afford) to boost his strength to '7' '?
In other words, would a big 10-strength ordinary unit fight just as well as a smaller 7-strength elite unit?

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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by goose_2 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:06 pm

PoorOldSpike wrote:Okay thanks guys, next question-
Can you give me any guidelines about whether I should I buy ordinary cheap replacement prestige points, or buy expensive Elite rep points?
For example if a 10-strength unit has been reduced to 5 strength by combat losses, and I'm very short on rep points, should I spend those points on cheap reps to get him back to full strength of '10', or should I spend them on 3 Elite points (which is all I can afford) to boost his strength to '7' '?
In other words, would a big 10-strength ordinary unit fight just as well as a smaller 7-strength elite unit?

Avoid buying replacements in scenario at all costs. Instead retreat the unit and use other units, but if it is an absolute must in mission and you are that short of prestige, which is never good, than buy regular as it is more imp to be at full strength at that point.

What level are you playing at?
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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by turn4441 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:23 pm

Some tips:
1. Try to only buy replacements between scenarios when regulars are free and elite are much cheaper. If there is any way you can get by without the unit the rest of the scenario, retreat it and refit later.
2. Another factor is how much experience a unit has. If a unit is relatively new and without much experience, regular replacements won't hurt much as there won't be much of an experience penalty, especially if it's early in a scenario and they'll have lots of opportunities to rebuild experience before the next one. So, a low experience unit rebuilt to 10 would probably be better than a low experience unit given elites up to 7 (actually 8 in your example). However, a low-level 3-star unit might have it's experience knocked down to a 1-star level so even if it's slightly better at 10, it will take a long time to rebuild that experience (especially at higher difficulty levels) and you lose the increased modifies (+2) for initiative, attack, and defense which can be quite costly in future combats. Therefore, it is very important to protect experience as much as possible. However, if regular replacements knock a unit's experience just below a 100, 200, 300, etc. level, it may not be too bad as they will hopefully quickly get their experience back to the next higher level.
3. If it's an auxiliary unit, only use regulars. It's a cheap way to save your core units by letting the auxiliaries soak up enemy attacks and whittle down ammo and entrenchment.
4. It also depends on the type of unit and where it is. If it's a unit that is attacked often and keeps getting whittled down or will be attacked right away on the enemy's next turn, get regulars as you're probably going to lose the prestige right away anyway since they can't move until your next turn.
5. Where you are in the game is another factor. Early in the games, experience isn't as important and you have time to rebuild it.
6. If you're hurting for prestige, try to force surrenders of strong enemy units while minimizing their losses.

Anyway, just some thoughts. Making those kind of decisions is one of the things that makes the game so interesting along with what type of core to have, upgrade or not, attack order, etc. If you haven't already done so, take a look at the Tricks & Tips (or is it Tips & Tricks?) thread in the stickies group up above. You can probably find answers to many of your other questions there. If not, feel free to keep asking.

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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by turn4441 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:25 pm

P.S. Also the FAQ/Common Questions thread above.

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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by PoorOldSpike » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:46 pm

Thanks guys, I'm cutting and pasting your sensational replies to my HD as usual..:)
Just to clarify, I should have said that currently I always play at 'Colonel' level with 'no supply' and leave the other option sliders and buttons on default.
And at the moment I'm only playing individual scenarios, not the campaigns.
I've dabbled with the Camps but some of the battles are too big and slow for a relative novice like me. (managed to conquer Poland and the Low C's at about the 5th attempt though) but generally I find smaller quicker-to-play non-camp scens are the fastest way to learn the game. )

PS- I forgot to ask:- Does the computer AI buy ordinary or elite replacs for its units?
And can I throw in another question:- Do most of you PC players play with the Supply rules on or off?
I use 'off' at the moment because it reduces the chore of having to manually assign supply myself, and helps games to move along quicker, what do you think?

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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by TSPC37730 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:59 pm

PoorOldSpike wrote:Okay thanks guys, next question-
Can you give me any guidelines about whether I should I buy ordinary cheap replacement prestige points, or buy expensive Elite rep points?
For example if a 10-strength unit has been reduced to 5 strength by combat losses, and I'm very short on rep points, should I spend those points on cheap reps to get him back to full strength of '10', or should I spend them on 3 Elite points (which is all I can afford) to boost his strength to '7' '?
In other words, would a big 10-strength ordinary unit fight just as well as a smaller 7-strength elite unit?
Some thoughts...

If you're in the '39 or '40 campaigns, you can avoid elite replacements as your units can hit the 225 or 275 experience points fairly easily. You can usually make up any lost experience in the next scenario or two. One possible exception to this would be for fighters.

As mentioned above, if you can retreat a damaged unit away from danger, this is the best course to follow mid-scenario. You'll save quite a bit in prestige costs by waiting.

As a general rule, I virtually always use green replacements for artillery & strategic bomber units. They always seem to gain experience quickly.

If you're down to a point where you can't bring a unit back up to full strength, then you may have to take a hard look at your playing style. You should be going up in prestige for the first few years - at least. If you have that little prestige left, you're going to have serious trouble in the years ahead as tanks & planes become progressively more expensive.

As a side note, if you can force enemy units to surrender, you'll gain a bit in prestige. Goose is our resident scholar in that area. Good luck!

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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by TSPC37730 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:14 pm

PoorOldSpike wrote:I always play at 'Colonel' level with 'no supply' and leave the other option sliders and buttons on default.
And at the moment I'm only playing individual scenarios, not the campaigns.
I've dabbled with the Camps but some of the battles are too big and slow for a relative novice like me.
Ahhh - these are significant missing pieces to the puzzle. I have no idea how much prestige is awarded on a scenario by scenario basis. I suspect this may be why you're having a problem.

Also remember that supply cuts both ways. You can view the AI units' supply during your turn & use it to your advantage. An enemy unit with no ammo cannot hurt you, no matter what its strength or entrenchment. Keeping your units supplied isn't too hard - you can just hit the supply button. Simply having the unit do nothing for a turn will accomplish the same thing. Lastly, any time you add reinforcements, your unit is also automatically resupplied.

Hope you'll reconsider trying the campaigns. A big part of the game is developing your core units & bringing them along from scenario to scenario. It's always (almost) rewarding to get a hero attached to one of your core units to give it more punch (except when it's a spotting hero on your strategic bomber or artillery unit - bah!)

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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by turn4441 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:21 pm

Yep, that does explain many things.

Given that, my suggestion would be to watch some of the youtube videos (especially the early game ones like Poland, Norway, Poznan, etc.) by Braccada, Deducter Sc, Night Phoenix, et al for a quick tutorial in how to play the game. Watch them play on higher difficulty levels and listen to their tips and you will quickly improve your abilities and strategies and the game will quickly become much more enjoyable. If you want things to be a surprise, play a scenario, then go back and watch how they did it and see where you can improve.

If you have the DLCs, GC39 is typically quick battles with small numbers of units and it slowly ramps up the number of units over the next couple of years giving you plenty of time to learn.

I've never really paid attention to what units the computer uses to replace losses so I can't answer that. You could probably determine that by attacking a unit so it takes a relatively large hit, checking it's stats, waiting for it to replace strength, then checking to see if it lost experience or not. Then again, it could depend on how much prestige the AI has. I just did a quick test and they used regulars, but that was only one case and it may change in other situations.

I've also never really thought about supply and have always had it on. It is often irritating to run out of gas or ammo (or nearly so and have to take time to replenish so you can shoot back when attacked), but then it's part of the game and as TSPC37730 mentioned, running a tough opponent or his protective artillery or AA guns out of ammo is often a good tactic and allows you to attack them with impunity, especially if you have more units around them so they can't resupply so you can do it again on your next turn if you don't kill them this one. It really doesn't take that much management and adds to the immersion of the game.

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Re: A few clarifications needed

Post by PoorOldSpike » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:41 am

Well guys it's 3:45 a.m in the morning and I've been up half the night in the Editor, (unable to tear myself away from it) and have created a neat fully-working flexible little scen for intensive training but am stuck on how to place 'Arrival zones' on the map where newly-purchased units can be placed during the game.
I can't find stuff about it in the editor manual, so can anybody tell me how to place the zones?

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