Which units does AI air force focus the most?

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MaxDoge
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Which units does AI air force focus the most?

Post by MaxDoge » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:33 pm

Since a lot of people on here read the AI's gameplay on a very high level and can predict a lot of moves and set up traps accordingly etc, I was wondering which unit types make the best bait for the AI to optimize my trapping gameplay a bit.

I'm using Oleh Dir as a Pioniere unit, is that a bad idea if the AI seems to focus pionieres in general?

So I just played a turn which prompted me to make this thread, enemy tac bomber had a choice of Oleh Dir Pioniere (17 air def) or Kerscher Panzer IVD (7 air def) right next to each other and he went for Oleh Dir. He got trapped but that is besides the point.

Also, fighter traps seem ineffective when they're covering more than 1 vulnerable unit, shame hero fighters can't intercept more than once like in PG2 since the trap only works on the first attacker and then everything is exposed, I feel that sometimes it's better to let the AI see that everything is protected with fighters so they don't go for it.

PeteMitchell
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Re: Which units does AI air force focus the most?

Post by PeteMitchell » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:18 pm

I always thought it is the unit that takes the highest damage in prestige value (i.e. expensive units with low air defense)... but I might be wrong... so I am happy to learn more as well ;)
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goose_2
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Re: Which units does AI air force focus the most?

Post by goose_2 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:41 pm

PeteMitchell wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:18 pm
I always thought it is the unit that takes the highest damage in prestige value (i.e. expensive units with low air defense)... but I might be wrong... so I am happy to learn more as well ;)
You are on point with your analysis Pete. So what does that consist of?

First and foremost they love attacking units in trucks or halftracks
Wurfrahmen and SiG's
units in open space starting with hard units as they are more expensive and they have a higher chance to do them damage

Fighters will target unescorted Bombers so it can be risky but fun to set up Bombers that they see but do not see the fighter escorting the Bomber.

I hope this helps
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dalfrede
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Re: Which units does AI air force focus the most?

Post by dalfrede » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:40 pm

The AI picks targets where it can do the most 'damage' with the fewest casualties.
So units with high prestige costs and low AD are first choice.
The definition of 'damage' is important.

I can't find the post, but it PzC2 the definition was modified from PzC1 to fix the issue of 'Helmut Lent' becoming useless by '45.
Swarming attacks were reduced.
Damage became defined primarily as prestige destruction.
So given the choice between killing 6 points on a 10 strength He111, or 4 points on a 4 strength He111, it will attack the 10 strength He111.
In PzC1 the 4 strength He111 gets it.
This reduces the chances of player units getting killed in PzC2.
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.

PeteMitchell
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Re: Which units does AI air force focus the most?

Post by PeteMitchell » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:52 pm

dalfrede wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:40 pm
The AI picks targets where it can do the most 'damage' with the fewest casualties.
So units with high prestige costs and low AD are first choice.
The definition of 'damage' is important.

I can't find the post, but it PzC2 the definition was modified from PzC1 to fix the issue of 'Helmut Lent' becoming useless by '45.
Swarming attacks were reduced.
Damage became defined primarily as prestige destruction.
So given the choice between killing 6 points on a 10 strength He111, or 4 points on a 4 strength He111, it will attack the 10 strength He111.
In PzC1 the 4 strength He111 gets it.
This reduces the chances of player units getting killed in PzC2.
That's interesting... I thought the AI would become better in finishing off already damaged units... I think I understand the rationale behind but it feels kind of strange to me... :shock:
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dalfrede
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Re: Which units does AI air force focus the most?

Post by dalfrede » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:20 pm

PeteMitchell wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:52 pm
That's interesting... I thought the AI would become better in finishing off already damaged units... I think I understand the rationale behind but it feels kind of strange to me... :shock:
Players get upset when they lose units.
So the AI does as much damage but less killing of player units.

If there is only one target they will take it out though.
Example if you fly a recon plane deep into enemy territory, and it is the only one plane in range of AI fighters, they will all attack it.

Ground units have much less range, so a lead ground unit may be the only available target and get pounded.
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.

PeteMitchell
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Re: Which units does AI air force focus the most?

Post by PeteMitchell » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:25 pm

Yes, I get it... but I am not sure I agree to this logic ;)

Human players kill AI units... so the AI should also kill human player units! :mrgreen:
Last edited by PeteMitchell on Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Panzerpimp
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Re: Which units does AI air force focus the most?

Post by Panzerpimp » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:27 pm

goose_2 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:41 pm
Wurfrahmen and SiG's
Absolutely. First I think Vulnerable artillery then weak air defense tanks and scouts or already damaged units that is possible to one shot. Generally It focuses units that are the most vulnerable to air attacks (obvious from unit's stats) and It is predictable and exploitable for traps.
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huckc
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Re: Which units does AI air force focus the most?

Post by huckc » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:50 pm

I doubt the AI deliberately avoids destroying player units. I think if anything that's a byproduct of lowered health units, the ones most at risk of getting killed off, having inherently less value.

As far as air traps, my favorite is when a fighter is positioned to protect a bomber yet is out of sight range from the enemy while positioned to directly intercept the first enemy fighter swooping in. That way the bomber doesn't get hit at all, and the fighter is still available for defensive fire.

dalfrede
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Re: Which units does AI air force focus the most?

Post by dalfrede » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:22 am

huckc wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:50 pm
I doubt the AI deliberately avoids destroying player units. I think if anything that's a byproduct of lowered health units, the ones most at risk of getting killed off, having inherently less value.
Reminder PzC2 is where weak units have lower priority not PzC1.
And it's not a byproduct, it's the point.
It gives a slight help to the player without weakening AI too much.

In multiplayer your opponent still has a killer instinct, but the more causal players get a break.

PzC2 still needs the difficulty sliders that PzC1 has to allow a more flexible increase in difficulty.
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.

captainjack
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Re: Which units does AI air force focus the most?

Post by captainjack » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:51 am

In my experience, the AI preferentially targets my wurfrahmen or Sig33 - both are expensive units with poor AD. A mobile AA unit (even the 10/4) just out of spotting range can gain a fair bit of experience in defensive fire, and with a few stars and a good Attack hero can often deter attack.

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Re: Which units does AI air force focus the most?

Post by TSPC37730 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:58 pm

From what I've seen, the AI likes to attack artillery first. Additional targets will include low defense value units like trucks, half tracks and recon units.

As a good counter and where possible, I like to move my AA and fighter units last to get them in position for traps.

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