Disappointed by the lack of Overrun ability

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Szabtom
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Post by Szabtom » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:42 pm

Wasn't there in the original, didn't miss it. And I don't miss it now in PC either. I am genuinely surprised and very much satisfied with how well balanced the game is out of the box.

soldier
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Post by soldier » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:15 pm

I don't miss it either.
All these features like overrun and some units being able to shoot 2 hexes are from PG2. Personally i always thought the original series was far better than its sucessors and think Panzer Corps is too. Perhaps someone could make a PG2 mod for PzC but given how this game is based on the first and that versions 2 and 3 weren't all that similar, that might be difficult.
And last night - Lake Balaton – Tiger I, Elephant and 2 Panthers G against IS2 down to strength 4 and no amo – three turns! It took three turns to kill it! That was the last straw for me - I’m not playing the game anymore. Playing a game should be fun not tedious repetition of actions that achieve nothing.
Unless it was entrenched in the mud with 5 stars i have not seen anything like this... 3 turns, hard to believe

Razz1
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Post by Razz1 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:28 am

johndoe2 wrote:At least overrunning 6 units in a single turn with a Tiger II is fun - unlike the TEDIOUSNESS of the game as it is now.

What do I mean?

Stalingrad scenario – Gustav rail gun against Maxim Gorky bunker - how many times do I have to repeat the same action? Again and again and again... 8, 10 turns? And not just that one all the bunkers are the same – I liked the old way – artillery plus Stuka plus engineers bunker overrun.

Talking about tediousness - don’t remember which map - enemy infantry surrounded from all sides gets pounded with artillery and then attacked with all troops goes down to 1 strength and does not surrender! The list just goes on...

And last night - Lake Balaton – Tiger I, Elephant and 2 Panthers G against IS2 down to strength 4 and no amo – three turns! It took three turns to kill it! That was the last straw for me - I’m not playing the game anymore. Playing a game should be fun not tedious repetition of actions that achieve nothing.

It appears re- reading the rules and understanding game concepts is in order.

You can not just load the game and play.

We get all sort of complaints here, only to find that after member read the rules and understand the concepts, they enjoy the game.

May I suggest re-reading the manual and then when a circumstance comes up, don't complain. Just explain clearly and we can help you.

There are plenty of other members that know the game now and can offer you help.

Fritz
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Post by Fritz » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:07 am

Well i must admit that the IS2 is really to strong. Often when it is encircled with three tanks a Tiger II does only 1 damage.

Also i dont understand why units with no ammo have full defense ability. I suggest that units that are out of ammo or fuel should have 50% less defense.

impar
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Post by impar » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:56 am

Szabtom wrote:Wasn't there in the original, didn't miss it.
soldier wrote:All these features like overrun and some units being able to shoot 2 hexes are from PG2.
IIRC, in the original you also didnt have the recon movement, didnt have air attacking bombers, didnt have move-and-shoot towed artillery, couldnt use railroads to transport units, didnt have incremental upgrades (PzIVD to PzIVE costs less than PzIVD to PzIA), didnt have "switch" mode in AA pieces, ...
Fritz wrote:Well i must admit that the IS2 is really to strong. Often when it is encircled with three tanks a Tiger II does only 1 damage.
And one is expected to encircle an enemy unit, with still capable of firing units, to get the bonus given by the non-existent in PG1 feature of mass attack.
When I use the mass attack feature I end up wasting attacks from my units, the enemy unit melts away to the first attacks and one or two of my units cant shoot since there is no enemy unit near them anymore.

To my style of play, the mass attack feature and the lack of overrun slowns me down and makes me miss opportunities and waste resources.

El_Condoro
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Post by El_Condoro » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:08 pm

Although there are some who play PzC and would like overrun, the devs have made it clear they don't want it and there are enough on both 'sides' of the issue to make it devisive - one more reason to leave it out. I like overrun, personally, but in PG2 where the scale is different and it works well. In PzC it is designed with a much larger scale in mind and overrun doesn't work quite as well. With mass attack I have learned (and am learning) which are the strongest of my units and where to place the others so that they can clean up if the defender retreats away. Like you, I have been frustrated with a weakened unit getting in the way of my advance but there is usually a way to deal with it - that's the fun of the early stages of a new game; working those things out.

Sharkyzero
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Post by Sharkyzero » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:43 pm

A thousand times NO to overrun.

Razz1
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Post by Razz1 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:30 am

The secret in single player games is to leave the big tanks out of ammo and surround it with 3 units and go forward.
When surrounded by three units it can not re-supply.
Push the tank into bad terrain and then kill it.

Even though your units may miss they still gain experience for suppression if they get that die roll.

El_Condoro
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Post by El_Condoro » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:36 am

Very true. Interestingly, infantry are often better for draining the ammo of big tanks. A Sherman might lose 6 or 7 points in an attempt to drain a Tiger II of one round of ammo, a decent infantry unit 1-2. Of course it depends of the situation and massed attack is the way to go, but the infantry are a lot cheaper to replace than the Sherman.

johndoe2
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Post by johndoe2 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:33 pm

Razz1 wrote:
johndoe2 wrote:At least overrunning 6 units in a single turn with a Tiger II is fun - unlike the TEDIOUSNESS of the game as it is now.

What do I mean?

Stalingrad scenario – Gustav rail gun against Maxim Gorky bunker - how many times do I have to repeat the same action? Again and again and again... 8, 10 turns? And not just that one all the bunkers are the same – I liked the old way – artillery plus Stuka plus engineers bunker overrun.

Talking about tediousness - don’t remember which map - enemy infantry surrounded from all sides gets pounded with artillery and then attacked with all troops goes down to 1 strength and does not surrender! The list just goes on...

And last night - Lake Balaton – Tiger I, Elephant and 2 Panthers G against IS2 down to strength 4 and no amo – three turns! It took three turns to kill it! That was the last straw for me - I’m not playing the game anymore. Playing a game should be fun not tedious repetition of actions that achieve nothing.

It appears re- reading the rules and understanding game concepts is in order.

You can not just load the game and play.

We get all sort of complaints here, only to find that after member read the rules and understand the concepts, they enjoy the game.

May I suggest re-reading the manual and then when a circumstance comes up, don't complain. Just explain clearly and we can help you.

There are plenty of other members that know the game now and can offer you help.
Really? Well let see:
Difficulty: Field Marshal. Victories all decisive (until Lake Balaton that is) using the alternative campaign mod. So I must be doing something right, right? But that doesn’t change the fact that at some points the game feels tedious (which I never felt was the case with the original PG).

Now overran ability, I simply jumped on the bandwagon because it’s an easy fix and as such is of no great importance, but making the game more dynamic is. Once the initial ‘WOW’ wears off people will start talking about the (re)playability of the game. And chasing a unit (that should be dead) for three turns is in fact tedious. I feel that rather than outright shutting up all criticism you could take on board some of the voiced opinions.

Razz1
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Post by Razz1 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:46 am

You need to understand the game mechanics and supply.

Overrun is not feasible.

Donvegardo
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Optional

Post by Donvegardo » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:37 am

Why not make overrun optional for those who would prefer it?

TheGrayMouser
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Post by TheGrayMouser » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:08 am

Hmm, one thing i hve noticed, which might be partially reposnible for some things others are noting is that the lack of ammo does NOT cause a unit to be destroyed any sooner than one with ammo, it just doesnt get to shoot back. Since the only advantage of a higher initiative is shooting ist and causing kills prior to the surviors firing, it is a complet waste of any initiative advantage when attacking a unit out of ammo. I could be wrong, but did not the original PG (and maybe even later versions) have some additional mal effect for being attacked while out of ammo? Perhaps the ground defence was halfed or something?

Fritz
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Post by Fritz » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:20 am

TheGrayMouser wrote:... Perhaps the ground defence was halfed or something?
You have my vote on half ground defense. Seems to be resonable. So the IS-2 are easier to kill.

Horseman
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Post by Horseman » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:46 am

TheGrayMouser wrote:Hmm, one thing i hve noticed, which might be partially reposnible for some things others are noting is that the lack of ammo does NOT cause a unit to be destroyed any sooner than one with ammo, it just doesnt get to shoot back. Since the only advantage of a higher initiative is shooting ist and causing kills prior to the surviors firing, it is a complet waste of any initiative advantage when attacking a unit out of ammo. I could be wrong, but did not the original PG (and maybe even later versions) have some additional mal effect for being attacked while out of ammo? Perhaps the ground defence was halfed or something?
No I'm prety sure there wasn't any additional mal effect from being out of ammo in the original. Ground attack was halved if out of fuel though if IIRC

impar
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Post by impar » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:37 am

johndoe2 wrote:Now overran ability, I simply jumped on the bandwagon because it’s an easy fix and as such is of no great importance, but making the game more dynamic is.
The whole point to me revolves around this, overrrun makes for a more dynamic game.

Kerensky
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Post by Kerensky » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:53 pm


impar
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Post by impar » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:24 pm

Kerensky wrote:Now that's an overrun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-fWN0Fm ... re=related
Nah. He didnt shoot.

impar
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Post by impar » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:05 pm

Input on a modified Overrun ability:
viewtopic.php?p=280101#280101

gunhojr
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Post by gunhojr » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:45 am

suggestion i like the ability to overrun but as stated its not going to happen i do have a question though how is it in russia or america for the most part they have tanks or soldiers with 3 or 4 stars in russia germans just start the war with them i can say germans can have the stars for all the fighting to get there.why do russians and americans get those stars without fighting,this would help to have them as basic since no combat experience.if this was changed you wouldnt need overrun.just curoius if someone can explain why

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