Barbarossa progress (41 DLC)

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Longasc
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Barbarossa progress (41 DLC)

Post by Longasc » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:37 pm

Just conquered Minsk and making progress towards Smolensk.

No losses so far, also captured a Matilda II and a T-34.
I am confident to complete this DLC before Christmas. :)

Kerensky
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Re: Barbarossa progress (41 DLC)

Post by Kerensky » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:50 pm

Longasc wrote:Just conquered Minsk and making progress towards Smolensk.

No losses so far, also captured a Matilda II and a T-34.
I am confident to complete this DLC before Christmas. :)
That sounds like the attitude the Germans had when they invaded Russia too. :idea:

rayduhz
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Re: Barbarossa progress (41 DLC)

Post by rayduhz » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:57 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Longasc wrote:Just conquered Minsk and making progress towards Smolensk.

No losses so far, also captured a Matilda II and a T-34.
I am confident to complete this DLC before Christmas. :)
That sounds like the attitude the Germans had when they invaded Russia too. :idea:
LOL and we know how that ended!

kop101
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Post by kop101 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:03 am

hahah hurry up and watch out russian winter

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Post by deadtorius » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:22 am

Don't worry it just gets harder from there :P
I have yet to make Moscow, thanks to massive Russian defences and General Mudinskov. They did reduce the chance of rain/ mud for that scenario since beta, but i still advance too slow to make it in time for caviar.

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Post by Shrike » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:22 am

Vyazma was ... painful :?

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Post by nikivdd » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:54 am

Shrike wrote:Vyazma was ... painful :?
While betatesting Vyazma i required an umbrella... when you plough through the mud, the enemy aswell, that's a small consolation.
You have to bring up your best of the best tactics to take the last VH. But the reward is grand, the streets of Moscow scenario!
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Post by DrkCon » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:12 pm

nikivdd wrote: But the reward is grand, the streets of Moscow scenario!
Talk about hell. I found that map brutacular. Tho, after my struggles I did manage to salvage a KV-1B to add to my force. It looks nice next to the fireplace.

Longasc
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Post by Longasc » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:33 pm

Finished Leningrad. First loss in the campaign, my highly decorated 3 Star Recon unit. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
I stayed the hell away from Leningrad and sunk one of the battleships there. The defenses have definitely improved.

All in all it was an expensive scenario, while I only lost a Recon unit my Luftwaffe got several 13 strength units severely damaged and repairing all the damage done wasn't cheap.


Now let's see how Vyazma will turn out. Might have to use normal reinforcements, keeping my units at 13 and only using elite reinforcements might become too expensive when I plan to save up for 1942 and Stalingrad.

I already did this yesterday, just didn't have time to write about it till now. I will go for Vyazma tonight.

Longasc
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Post by Longasc » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:25 pm

I am making good progress in Vyazma, but mud, rain and enemy airpower cause me serious strength point losses. I also lost the recently bought recon unit.
My mood about matches the weather, it's bad but getting better, Vyazma will fall soon and I will without doubt take Moscow's outskirts.

Because of the recent Prestige heavy losses and my stupid habit of pampering my core units with elite reinforcements by far too often (I was much smarter managing my Beta core in this regard!) I consider not playing the Moscow scenario or playing it very defensively. Or just skip it and go to Demyansk?
What gives potentially more Prestige?

I am preparing for the 1942 DLC and I am really afraid of Kerensky's ideas and thus decided to save tons of Prestige.
Ah well, let's see.

Maybe I should write a book about that... "Brown shit around Vyazma"... ah sorry, that's just what I felt, the whole map is brown and the situation is like that. :lol:

impar
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Post by impar » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:33 pm

Is Prestige so tight in the final part of GC41?
Am at the start of Novgorod with an already overstrengthed core and have 5.800 of Prestige. Should I start saving some for later scenarios?

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Post by El_Condoro » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:35 pm

You're doing much better than me; I am at Novgorod, too, with almost all units on 13 strength (max 375 XP) but only about 500 prestige remaining. Now you've got me concerned... :)

Longasc
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Post by Longasc » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:38 pm

I don't remember exact numbers I think I had only 3800 in Novgorod but Leningrad and Vyazma were costly. I was just playing bad, Star Trek Online, LOTRO's new update and Skyrim (didn't play that for quite some time by now) and lots of other things (like having to shovel snow blargh) probably distracted me enough to waste tons of Prestige. :P

I would suggest trying to stay above 4000 till the end of the 1941 DLC.
P.S. anyone reporting he has 99.999 Prestige or so should simply play on a higher difficulty and NOT depress me by posting here! :>

Longasc
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Post by Longasc » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:41 pm

El Condoro, that's it, I have or had all my units at 13 and making great progress but I wasted my Prestige this way and reinforcing them to 13 really burnt Prestige that I am now missing. I think your concerns are quite valid, you see the trouble I got into. Leningrad is now a fortress, even if you ignore it you have to fight a lot of units.

Locarnus
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Post by Locarnus » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:18 am

Can anyone post a core when in 41, at least the max slots for a scenario in 41?

I m only in the last of 40s and really consider a 7th artillery, which would be helpfull in the russian winter, defense scenarios and cities.

I will already have to leave 3 units in reserve in dunkirk and considering all the tank units you "find", I try to refrain from buying new stuff.
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)

impar
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Post by impar » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:31 am

Locarnus wrote:Can anyone post a core when in 41, at least the max slots for a scenario in 41?
Novgorod (mid GC41) has 30 core slots plus 4 SE units.

Kerensky
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Post by Kerensky » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:25 am

All sounds good to me. :D
Playing on Manstein, I was sitting comfortably around 3000 prestige during the Kiev scenarios (decided not to take the Leningrad path). I wasn't anywhere near full 3 star 13 strength units though, except for most of my air force and artillery. Infantry were lucky to have 1 star, and most of my armor was in the 2 star range.

Even with 3000 prestige saved up though, Vyamza/Streets of Moscow took care of that no problem. Moscow got so bad at one point I didn't even have enough prestige to fill all my core slots to re-buy units that kept getting killed.

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Post by rezaf » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:29 pm

Looks like I finished the '41 DLC (for the first time) - on default difficulty.

My path was Minsk->Smolensk->Ostrov->Novgorod->Leningrad->Vyazma->Streets of Moscow->Demyansk Pocket.

A few words about each scenario:

Minsk41:

Rather easy - probably as it should be for the first level of any DLC. I thought it did a good job of giving the feeling so sorely lacking in any level of the vanilla campaign's Barbarossa - Wehrmacht overrunning flabbergasted Soviets hardly putting up a fight. Also, a pretty large and not too crowded map to provide a sense of distance. I think I actually made concerted moves to use the strategic bombers "Neutralize" behavior for the first time EVER in PzC. I'm still not entirely sure what it's supposed to be good for in most situations - however, here, it allowed me to neutralize all the far-ahead airfields ... and as usually Soviet AA was sitting on them and AA can't capture back, that meant that objective was pretty easy to achieve. All in all, a good one.

Smolensk41:

Marginally harder, but otherwise pretty similar to Minsk, minus the neutralizing. Average scenario, mainly because the last one was samey but had a gimmick to boot.

Ostrov:

Essentially still the same deal, but with a narrow map, hard terrain and more opposition, it was harder than the last two. Not a bad thing - this is how difficulty progression is supposed to work. Above average.

Novgorod:

Back to covering ground on a large map like Smolensk, but with hard terrain like in Ostrov - possibly harder. Lots of close terrain ask for careful maneuvering of tanks. Close to the finish line, a nasty surprise in the form of some quite powerful soviet armor. Above average scenario.

Leningrad41:

Closing in on Leningrad was essentially still the same deal, but the opposition was harder still with more powerful tanks being fielded by the Soviets. Through and through pretty interesting with enemy counter attacks and stuff - though technically the time alotment is more than sufficient, I ran into some bad luck in the NE which made the last few turns pretty exciting. Sinking a battleship in the harbor was one of the rare chances for my strat bombers to be truly useful. Good scenario.

Vyazma:

I hadn't known General Winters comrade Commander Mud before, but he sure was in this map.
This made progression slow and hard and limited the use of airpower on both sides. While I usually HATED muddy terrain in PG and PzC levels, this one was at least clearly designed with bad ground conditions in mind - the scenario became a true "Rush for Moscow" - though I have to admit that Vyazma actually fell FAR later, because I circumvented the city with tank attack spears north and south and left it to the Infantry to "mop up" Vyazma - which it was unable to do because of powerful Soviet tanks being present and the weather preventing the Luftwaffe to do it's job every other turn. So I finally had to recall a couple of the tanks from the spears and thus essentially made a nice pocket around Vyazma which I then rolled up from the east. I think I only finished the scenario on the last turn, which was my tightest victory in the DLC.
VERY good scenario.

Streets of Moscow:

Ah, something completely different. Fighting through the streets of the soviet capital was an exciting operation during which I took my first serious losses of the DLC (I think I lost 2 tanks and a recon unit). The winter weather thankfully didn't interfere too much, but concentrated, strong soviet forces were a definite force to be reckoned with. In the end, capturing the city in time was easier than with Vyazma, but it sure was a bumpy road.
Good scenario ... BUT.

The BUT is THE cardinal sin of any novice P&P RPG dungeon master - taking away the fruits of my hard labor right under my nose is a very ugly move. Also, it reveals THE major flaw with the DLCs so far - lack of "hypotheticals". Outstanding achievments like conquering the capital of the Soviet Union should have a MAJOR impact. It mustn't be the total collapse of the soviet union, but a simple "Been there, done that. Gotta retreat now ." doesn't cut it. Shame on the designers for making this such a hollow and meaningless achievment.

Demyansk Pocket:

The only defensive map I played in this DLC so far. While not a bad scenario, I'm not sure it worked fully as intended. I thought it was actually much easier than the previous two for various reasons. Getting the transports through was hardly a problem, because flying them over the sea to the north practically guaranteed a safe voyage. I THINK one time a decent fighter spawned there, but I quickly disposed of him.
Wasn't hard to spot him - by that time I had broken out of the pocked along the coast with two lone tanks. I also broke out to the east along the northern border of the map, and I discovered the hordes of to-be-triggered units parked there. It was surprisingly easy do dispose of many of them - special thanks to the "Surrenders" game mechanic. The various attacks elsewhere were fended off with relative ease by making use of combined arms and not getting overextended / staying put in favorable defensive positions. The AIs reluctance to attack anything covered by artillery was also a big help, I guess. Not a bad map at all, but strange as a last map of the DLC because I thought it was pretty easy. Maybe I was just lucky.
Good scenario anyway.

Bottom Line:

Varied levels and a different feel to Poland and France. Open terrain with plenty opportunity to use the finally improving german tanks, namely the later PzIII and PzIV models. Plenty of enemy tanks, too, giving plenty opportunities to bring in the tacs of the Luftwaffe to make a difference.
What's there not to like?
Well, the hollow victory I mentiond above. If you feel you cannot allow an alternate course of history because this would prevent interfacing correctly with future DLCs, you have to resist the temptation to let the player achieve the ahistorical result in the first place.
I probably wouldn't have blinked if you had pulled a "Moscow is at our fingertips, but unfortunately, we need your forces elsewhere.".
If capturing Moscow cannot make a difference (or the complete destruction of the forces at Dunkirk), put the level into a hypothetical DLC to be released seperately (probably after the regular, year-by-year DLCs).
So, other than this caveeat, I really liked this DLC - I think it's the best one yet. Thanks for making it and congratulations to all those who participated in doing do.

Edit: Good call Rudankort, I added the missing Novgorod scenario to the list.
_____
rezaf
Last edited by rezaf on Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Rudankort » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:24 pm

rezaf
I think you forgot Novgorod?

Anyway, great feedback.

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Post by Xitax » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:14 pm

rezaf wrote:Looks like I finished the '41 DLC (for the first time) - on default difficulty.
The BUT is THE cardinal sin of any novice P&P RPG dungeon master - taking away the fruits of my hard labor right under my nose is a very ugly move. Also, it reveals THE major flaw with the DLCs so far - lack of "hypotheticals". Outstanding achievments like conquering the capital of the Soviet Union should have a MAJOR impact. It mustn't be the total collapse of the soviet union, but a simple "Been there, done that. Gotta retreat now ." doesn't cut it. Shame on the designers for making this such a hollow and meaningless achievment.
rezaf
No, not quite. It illustrates the grim reality that no matter what a superman you are you still can't conquer the world. There are forces magnitudes beyond the control of any man, be he a general or a peasant. No matter how brilliant a general, you still are not enough.

This aspect of the game pleases me. I don't want to be cast into a yet another game world where the whole universe revolves around me. I don't want to be pandered to. I don't want my ego to rule. There's a place for limitations like that, and this is arguably a very appropriate one. You are playing the part of a general in one of the most evil regimes ever, and thank God they lost.

-Besides, if we enter into the realm of hypothetical outcomes, what's the point of replaying historical battles at all? After the first few battles of the war, the hypothetical would diverge so far from reality that it would be a complete fiction. In order to be able to replay historical battles we must not stray too far from the actual events. There are probably about an infinite number of ways to diverge from the historical events - what would you pick? How many hypothetical paths would you allow? How many thousands of scenarios would you have to create to support them?

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