Happy New Year to everyone here!
Belgrade DLC campaign mission: Romanian Somua?
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Belgrade DLC campaign mission: Romanian Somua?
I`ve just started the `41 Grand Campaign and noticed that Romania is actively helping Germany with troops to attack Yugoslavia. That didn`t historically happen, but it`s no big deal as nobody forces the player to actually use those troops and it can be a "what if" scenario. What marvels me though is the starting romanian Somua S35 tank unit. What`s the explanation for that? Don`t get me wrong, I think Romania would have done better to buy these instead of the Renault R35, but it just didn`t happen. Romania never used and (as far as I`m aware) never even contemplated buying the Somua. Do you maybe have a lack of sources on the Romanian ww2 army? To my knowledge, books in English on this subject are rather few and far between, but there are plenty in Romanian of course. Would it be of any help posting a list of Romanian ww2 equipment? I`d be willing to compile one from proper sources(actual books and magazines), presuming that by doing this I wouldn`t step on anyone`s nerves since I don`t intend to challenge anyone`s authority.
Happy New Year to everyone here!
Happy New Year to everyone here!
Well, along the years I`ve read a few dozen books and possibly a couple hundred magazines that touched on the subject to some extent so I`d have been quite shocked to hear I`ve missed any proof for Somua`s service with the ww2 Romanian army, even in reduced numbers. Anyway, it was there so I`ve used it. Successfully I might add and it made quite a team with my own french captured Somua. Still, I`m curious to hear from the developers about its raison d`être. I`ve said in an older thread that I`m somewhat disappointed that Romania(and other axis factions) doesn`t have tanks in PC and now that I find one, it`s not among those in its arsenal. What a ride I`ve had!
On a different note I want to add that the DLC campaigns are really enjoying! Well done!
Successfully I might add and it made quite a team with my own french captured Somua. Still, I`m curious to hear from the developers about its raison d`être. I`ve said in an older thread that I`m somewhat disappointed that Romania(and other axis factions) doesn`t have tanks in PC and now that I find one, it`s not among those in its arsenal. What a ride I`ve had! On a different note I want to add that the DLC campaigns are really enjoying! Well done!
Yup, with the inclusion of captured units, we wanted to give them as much use as historically possible. It would be a waste to make a unit and only have it appear once (you can only ever capture one S35 tank during the 1940 campaign).
So we tapped our history books, and they showed us that many nations allied to the German frequently re-used captured equipment as well (think of it as resale).
This gives the minor nations some more punch and variety (only Italy has their own tanks in Panzer Corps so far) and allows us to make more use of some of our interesting captured units.
So we tapped our history books, and they showed us that many nations allied to the German frequently re-used captured equipment as well (think of it as resale).
This gives the minor nations some more punch and variety (only Italy has their own tanks in Panzer Corps so far) and allows us to make more use of some of our interesting captured units.
I`m not sure I understand what you mean though. If I`m reading it correctly you wanted to give Romania a tank for that scenario, but did not want to lose time creating something that wasn`t in game already. But why not give them the Renault R35 tank which they actually had? It`s already in game and you`ve given it to Poland too in the `39 DLC. The Germans never gave any of their captured Somua to Romania(unlike some other types of captured equipment which they indeed sold to Romania). Incidentally, apart from a customization of a czech tankette, Romania did not have anything that could be considered as indigenous tanks in 1941 so you wouldn`t have needed to create something for them alone anyway. As for the need to use the greyed out Somua more than once, well, it was used by some of the Axis countries(other than Germany) indeed, but not Romania. You could still give it to some of the other factions that actually had it.
At that date Romania had in its arsenal the following armour types:
- Skoda LT vz 35 (Romanian indivativ R-2) - in german service it was the PzKfw 35(t); 126 of these existed in june 1941 forming one of the two armoured regiments of the 1st(and only) Armoured division. The Romanian 1st Armour division was organized similarly to a german division, the personnel being trained by the German mission during the spring of 1941. 109 of the R-2 tanks were still active before the battle of Stalingrad.
- Renault R 35 - 75 of these existed in june 1941 forming the second regiment of the armoured division; later, due to the fact that the Renault was slower than the R2, had more of an anti infantry than anti tank gun and lacked radios(which the R-2 had) this regiment was detached from the 1st Armour Division and served with the Romanian 4th army. After Odessa the 2nd armour regiment was kept for instruction.
- AH IV(Romanian indicativ R-1) - basically the czechoslovak AH IV tankette(which to my knowledge is based on the british Carden Loyd tankette like the polish TK; the czech - and romanian - tankettes though had turrets), with some custom modifications; Romania bought 76 of them in 1937; A number was later on imported to replace losses suffered during the war; it was normally distributed to the recon units of the cavalry divisions.
At the start of the war there were btw 75 light tanks Renault FT 17, but these were kept for training and watch and they didn`t see frontline service.
You don`t have the Panzer 35(t) or the AH IV tankette, but the Renault R35 is already there as I`ve said so it could be given to Romania too. Or maybe you mean that making it grey to suit the Axis side is what forced you to drop such moves? I would have thought this isn`t something very time consuming. You`ve done it with the Me in the Yugoslav colors after all.
EDIT: I do understand that it`s a game about "changing history" but:
1. I`d like the option to play historical or creative to be left to the player. Forcing him to play ahistorical(or historical for that matter) doesn`t sound like the best decision to me personally.
2. you can`t just pop ahistorical equipment and expect people to not scratch their heads. If there`s some sort of gameplay reason to include a Somua in Romanian service in 1941(even though Romania had only light tanks up to Stalingrad) then at least find a logical explanation for it and explicitly introduce it to the player too. Put something in the briefing along the lines: "because you were so successful in France we`ve captured more equipment than we expected(i.e. then was historically true) and decided to sell some Somua to Romania too so that it can cooperate with your own captured Somua successfully." This makes the whole thing much more acceptable in my opinion.
At that date Romania had in its arsenal the following armour types:
- Skoda LT vz 35 (Romanian indivativ R-2) - in german service it was the PzKfw 35(t); 126 of these existed in june 1941 forming one of the two armoured regiments of the 1st(and only) Armoured division. The Romanian 1st Armour division was organized similarly to a german division, the personnel being trained by the German mission during the spring of 1941. 109 of the R-2 tanks were still active before the battle of Stalingrad.
- Renault R 35 - 75 of these existed in june 1941 forming the second regiment of the armoured division; later, due to the fact that the Renault was slower than the R2, had more of an anti infantry than anti tank gun and lacked radios(which the R-2 had) this regiment was detached from the 1st Armour Division and served with the Romanian 4th army. After Odessa the 2nd armour regiment was kept for instruction.
- AH IV(Romanian indicativ R-1) - basically the czechoslovak AH IV tankette(which to my knowledge is based on the british Carden Loyd tankette like the polish TK; the czech - and romanian - tankettes though had turrets), with some custom modifications; Romania bought 76 of them in 1937; A number was later on imported to replace losses suffered during the war; it was normally distributed to the recon units of the cavalry divisions.
At the start of the war there were btw 75 light tanks Renault FT 17, but these were kept for training and watch and they didn`t see frontline service.
You don`t have the Panzer 35(t) or the AH IV tankette, but the Renault R35 is already there as I`ve said so it could be given to Romania too. Or maybe you mean that making it grey to suit the Axis side is what forced you to drop such moves? I would have thought this isn`t something very time consuming. You`ve done it with the Me in the Yugoslav colors after all.
EDIT: I do understand that it`s a game about "changing history" but:
1. I`d like the option to play historical or creative to be left to the player. Forcing him to play ahistorical(or historical for that matter) doesn`t sound like the best decision to me personally.
2. you can`t just pop ahistorical equipment and expect people to not scratch their heads. If there`s some sort of gameplay reason to include a Somua in Romanian service in 1941(even though Romania had only light tanks up to Stalingrad) then at least find a logical explanation for it and explicitly introduce it to the player too. Put something in the briefing along the lines: "because you were so successful in France we`ve captured more equipment than we expected(i.e. then was historically true) and decided to sell some Somua to Romania too so that it can cooperate with your own captured Somua successfully." This makes the whole thing much more acceptable in my opinion.
Well we can only use the assets we have in the game, and none of those art assets exist. The R-35 does, but only as a French unit with French markings.
People are welcome to mod them in if they really want to, but official content only uses official assets. So we have to make due with what we have as best we can.
People are welcome to mod them in if they really want to, but official content only uses official assets. So we have to make due with what we have as best we can.
I`ve been meaning to ask about that. Panzer Corps has some excellent graphics for the units. To be frank that`s what made the decision for me to buy it. I really like that I can look at a Char B1 and actually see details as opposed to an "impression" of a Char B1 or a generic tank symbol. You`ve clearly had a great artist during the main game`s production phase and I wish to congratulate him for the awesome job. But what happened? In the DLC missions I see some weird things. Polish Renault R-35 tanks with the french tricolor cockade still visible on them I think; A yugoslav Me with a changed hue, but still with the german cross and and the german paint job in the info card; a Romanian Somua(anyway..Kerensky wrote:Well we can only use the assets we have in the game, and none of those art assets exist.
) with the german paintings too; then a yugoslav T-26 with the soviet red star. It`s like nobody is still working on graphics anymore. I have only limited 2d skills, but I thought that changing some symbols on units that size(especially if you have the base files with various layers) should be basic stuff. What made you drop this aspect of development? It`s not the end of the world of course, but it takes from the immersion and taints a bit the chapter where you`ve been aces so far.That`s ok really. You`ve already used it for Poland and the Romanian tricolor at the size of that unit could hardly be distinguished from the French tricolor. Between a grey Somua with the German Cross(none of which having anything to do with Romania) and a french colored Renault which looks like it is in Romanian colors and was indeed used by it I personally find the latter preferable.The R-35 does, but only as a French unit with French markings.
We found people were very confused by Axis units with Allied coloring during the BETA and it was decided to keep things like captured units distinctly split.
Every time X tank shows up under Allied control it retains a specific appearance. Same goes for Axis controlled.
But the bottom line is we cannot expect our artists to come up with new unit icons for every single scenario, especially when these units only ever see use once and never again. Thus we gift some German captured French equipment to our Romanian Allies to make the most use of the assets we have been given, but also to give more variety to Axis auxiliary nations.
Every time X tank shows up under Allied control it retains a specific appearance. Same goes for Axis controlled.
But the bottom line is we cannot expect our artists to come up with new unit icons for every single scenario, especially when these units only ever see use once and never again. Thus we gift some German captured French equipment to our Romanian Allies to make the most use of the assets we have been given, but also to give more variety to Axis auxiliary nations.
How is that possible? Every unit has a big square underneath with the clear color of one of the two sides. It`s very clear on a map which are your units and which are the enemy`s , especially since this is a turn based game and not something to which you need to react live. I suppose these people that simply must have "faction colors" are the reason why we also don`t have more color in game for camuflage and more detailed faction markings.Kerensky wrote:We found people were very confused by Axis units with Allied coloring during the BETA
My interpretation of this(for a german unit in allied hands for example) was that it would imply loading the texture in a 2d editor, hitting Delete for the layer with the german cross in the .psd file, sliding the hue bar and then hitting Save as. Followed of course by making a couple of renders with the "new" texture on the existing model. Which is something for which you don`t need a gifted and trained professional of the sort that made the unit in the first place. But obviously I`m missing something else here since you just won`t budge when it comes to "units that are only used once" like the Yugoslav Messerschmitt for example.But the bottom line is we cannot expect our artists to come up with new unit icons for every single scenario, especially when these units only ever see use once and never again.
The captured Matilda II only appeared once too, but I hope you`re not giving it to Hungary on the eastern front. They deserve their Turan tanks. Btw, the thing with only once etc. reminds me of an old comedy where the British Government was preparing to start a nuclear war by bombing an island nation. And the minister explained to the journalists that his party(I think it was the conservatives) has never understood the point of spending so much of the taxpayers money on a weapon that`s not used.Thus we gift some German captured French equipment to our Romanian Allies to make the most use of the assets we have been given, but also to give more variety to Axis auxiliary nations.
You`re talking about a mod, right?Uhu wrote: And this will change when the Italian Campaign 2.0 is finally released!
Not only Turans.
The Royal Hungarian Army had the following armored units in use during ww2 (not to mention the captured french tanks for anti-partisan duty):
Csaba armored car, Toldi I, ToldiIIa, Nimród, Pz38(T), PzIVF, PzIVF2, Turán I, Turán II, Tiger I, PzIVH, StuGIIIG, PzIIIM, Panther, Hetzer, Zrínyi II, Zrínyi II (late versions with skirts), Zrínyi I (only prototype).
Plus there were prototypes for Tas tank and Tas assault gun - which were equivalent to Panther and Jagdpanther, sadly they were destroyed by allied bombing before going into production.
In the future, when the Italian Campaign 2.0 is finished, I will begin to create a Hungarian Campaign. But it is really far far away...
The Royal Hungarian Army had the following armored units in use during ww2 (not to mention the captured french tanks for anti-partisan duty):
Csaba armored car, Toldi I, ToldiIIa, Nimród, Pz38(T), PzIVF, PzIVF2, Turán I, Turán II, Tiger I, PzIVH, StuGIIIG, PzIIIM, Panther, Hetzer, Zrínyi II, Zrínyi II (late versions with skirts), Zrínyi I (only prototype).
Plus there were prototypes for Tas tank and Tas assault gun - which were equivalent to Panther and Jagdpanther, sadly they were destroyed by allied bombing before going into production.
In the future, when the Italian Campaign 2.0 is finished, I will begin to create a Hungarian Campaign. But it is really far far away...
I hope you`re not giving it to Hungary on the eastern front. They deserve their Turan tanks.
I`ve merely used that as one example. I know they had more than that. Most nations that are now pretty bare had more equipment than what they now have in game.Uhu wrote:Not only Turans.
Again, you`re talking about a mod and not something official, right?In the future, when the Italian Campaign 2.0 is finished, I will begin to create a Hungarian Campaign. But it is really far far away...
Yes, they are mods.
Mark50 wrote:I`ve merely used that as one example. I know they had more than that. Most nations that are now pretty bare had more equipment than what they now have in game.Uhu wrote:Not only Turans.
Again, you`re talking about a mod and not something official, right?In the future, when the Italian Campaign 2.0 is finished, I will begin to create a Hungarian Campaign. But it is really far far away...
Re: Belgrade DLC campaign mission: Romanian Somua?
Hi, in the Belgrade scenario you should be able to buy Romanian Infantry to be part of your core! The same should happend in others scenarios . Romanian Mnt have 6 in soft attack while Germán infantry ( salvo paracaidistas) have only 5. So I would like to upgrade or at lis be able to buy axis units... Especially when they are visibul in the purchase menu! Thx.
Pd: love the game since Panzer General!
Pd: love the game since Panzer General!
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tenshin111
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Re: Belgrade DLC campaign mission: Romanian Somua?
Congratz for necro'ing a 5-year old topic!Ret1ogli wrote:Hi, in the Belgrade scenario you should be able to buy Romanian Infantry to be part of your core! The same should happend in others scenarios . Romanian Mnt have 6 in soft attack while Germán infantry ( salvo paracaidistas) have only 5. So I would like to upgrade or at lis be able to buy axis units... Especially when they are visibul in the purchase menu! Thx.
Pd: love the game since Panzer General!
