Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

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ScottP
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Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by ScottP » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:44 pm

We are excited to announce the release of Panzer Corps Grand Campaign ’44 West, the latest DLC in the critically-acclaimed and award-winning World War II operational strategy game series Panzer Corps!

A new front has opened in the west against the German Wehrmacht! With the Allies landing in Normandy and the Wehrmacht busy fighting a defensive battle in Italy, the end begins to draw near. Panzer Corps Grand Campaign ’44 West comes packed with 14 all-new scenarios of some of the war’s most important and renowned battles, from the landings at Anzio and Normandy, to the intense combat around Caen and Cassino. Players even face the ill-fated Operation Market Garden, but unusually from the German perspective. Players can call up their core forces from previous completed Grand Campaigns to continue to gain experience and new equipment or use a preset core force and play the campaign on its own.

Panzer Corps Grand Campaign ’44 West also expands on the features implemented in the release of Panzer Corps: Afrika Korps for a truly unique and challenging experience that all wargamers should be a part of!

Scenario List: Anzio, Cassino, Monte Cassino, Beaches of Normandy, Bayeux, Villers-Bocage, Caen, St. Lo, Falaise, Toulon, Montelimar, Arnhem, Nijmegen, Eindhoven.

Panzer Corps Grand Campaign ’44 West is an expansion and requires a copy of either Panzer Corps or Panzer Corps: Afrika Korps to play. For more information on Panzer Corps Grand Campaign ’44 West, visit the official product page on the Slitherine or Matrix Games website.

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Amaranthus
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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by Amaranthus » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:40 am

Great news, can't wait to try it out. I've found I've got the most fun from the GCs by actually NOT carrying over my core force, but instead using the allocated one. More of a challenge, and more historical...

Longasc
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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by Longasc » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:05 pm

How could I miss this?

Somehow I didn't get a mail that the new DLC got released. I was actually waiting for it for a long time by now and wondered why it has not been released yet.
Maybe I just need to pay more attention, anyways, good news! :)

@Amaranthus: Good observation, I share your thoughts.

lwbloomer
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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by lwbloomer » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:38 pm

This is very good news, but I downloaded and installed it and am having some curious problems.

1. In the first scenario, ANZIO, there are supposed to be Supply Depots which, if you can save them, give you Mines for use in the next scenario. The problem is, I scoured the maps and my Core and Reserve unit lists and everything else, and never saw anything labelled "Supply Depot." Or anything similar. Nothing.

2. Because I saved Supply Deports despite not being able to see them (no idea how I did that), I was supposed to get Mine units for the Cassino scenario. But I could find no sign of them at all. Nothing.

3. In the Cassino scenario there are artillerly units surrounding Cassino (Nebels), which have the usual little green arrows but CANNOT BE MOVED. Trust me, I tried everything, but there is no way to move these units.

4. In the Beaches of Normandy scenario, there are numerous units (mostly infantry, but not all) near or on the beaches which, again, CANNOT BE MOVED. Frankly, an infantry unit that is near a beach but cannot be moved even one hex is almost useless when it comes to actually occupying the beach!

Is there an explanation for these things? All the other campaign units available worked fine for me in the exact same installation, including Afrika Korps. I can't think of any explanation.

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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by ThvN » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:20 am

Hello lwbloomer, I hope can answer most questions:

The units which are unable to move are designed that way; they have special heroes added that give them zero movement (although they can still make retreat moves when forced!). There are no Nebelwerfer in the (first) Cassino scenario, so I assume you mean the Monte Cassino scenario. Again, this is as designed, the Nebelwefer artillery units also have far more range than usual, to compensate. I guess they are unable to move because they are intended to be used purely defensively.

BTW, did you manage to get the trucks to safety in the Cassino scenario? These trucks also have special heroes that reduce movement, you may have noticed that they are a lot slower than normal trucks?

About the minefields you can get in Anzio: There should be a message popping up, I presume you saw it, that you have received minefields as a reward for saving supply depots. When you receive this message the game should center the playing screen on their spawn location, which is in the upper left corner of the map (west of Campoleone). So check that location, double-click on the minefields to add them to your unit list, like the message says.

About the supply depots themselves, I'm puzzled: I can clearly see them, there are a total of six, and their strength plates have a little glow around them. I've added a screenshot with a red arrow pointing at the Westernmost one, hex coordinates (4,9). Hope this helps.
Attachments
AnzioSupplyDepotArrow.jpg
AnzioSupplyDepotArrow.jpg (76.54 KiB) Viewed 6384 times

lwbloomer
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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by lwbloomer » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:02 am

Thanks for your comprehensive reply, ThvN.

I did get a message about the minefields, but was not able to find any. I think I'll go back and reply that scenario and see what happens a second time.

After I posted, I did notice that some of the unmoveable D-Day units were labelled "Machine Gun Nest," but some were anti-aircraft units, which I guess makes some sense. This unmoveable units thing, though, is a bit of a drag. Do you think every machine-gun-nest inhabitant (which, BTW, is almost certainly some form of infantry) stayed put no matter what? Not likely! They could move.

Anyway, on to the Supply Depots. From your screenshot (thanks!), they are exactly what I was expecting, being essentially the same as those in the Race to the Wire scenario in Afrika Korps. But I swear, I went back to earlier turns in that scenario and kept looking, looking, looking and never found even one. Despite that, I was credited with saving them!

I guess I'll restart the whole campaign and try again, just to see what happens.

You have pretty much established that the unmoveable-unit problems are (to use Microsoft terminology) supposed to be "features" rather than "bugs"! Not sure I agree that's what they are, but at least I'm not going crazy.

robman
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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by robman » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:13 am

@lwbloomer: I just finished Anzio (whew!), and I think I understand the source of the confusion. In Anzio, the supply depots are visible from the get-go: They are YOUR depots, so they are never hidden from you. You do not have to seek out and find them, as in Race to the Wire, or wait until they come into spotting range, as in Salerno Counterattack. If you restart Anzio, you should see them sitting there.

Minefields: my screen centered on them along with the message about them, just as ThvN described, at the beginning of one of the last turns.

"Zero movement" heroes: we encountered these at least once before, the AA guns on the mainland at Messina. I assume that they represent fixed defensive positions that have to spiked if overrun.

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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by ThvN » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:44 am

The immovable units on the Beaches of Normandy do make sense to me game-wise, because otherwise a player could quickly move them onto beach hexes and prevent the AI from landing any troops there. This is an exploit which is pretty common, and very effective. They would last only a couple of turns, but by then you can have your fastest units take over and attack the AI on the beaches. The AI will have only landed some units in a piecemeal fashion by then. Surround the few hexes open for the AI to land and attack anything that lands and force it to surrender, makes a pretty boring game. But I agree, it feels a bit strange to see such immovable units.

For the immovable Nebelwerfer in Monte Cassino, if you could manage to move them in covering positions for the Fallschirmjäger the AI would barely be able to attack effectively, because those Nebelwerfer can do a lot of damage. So, again, I guess it is to prevent the player from quickly forming a formidable defensive line and push the AI back in a counteroffensive with the help of those Nebelwerfer. As it is now if the AI advances against the player the Nebelwerfer will still be able to provide good suportive fire, but as soon as you go on the offensive you will have to provide your own support. So maybe they are placed to help not-so-skilled players (like me) against the AI overrunning your paratroopers, and a skilled player won't get much use out of them, so they help balance the difficulty of the scenario.

As for the Anzio supply depots, their locations are (4,9) - (12,2) - (12,6) - (22,12) - (26,6) - (28,13). You don't have to look around the map for them, just Toggle your unit list (F6), scroll down the list, they should be visible right before your air units. Now you can click on them and the game will center the map on them.

You seem like a fast player (having already finished several scenarios), it's easy to overlook them. The developers found out during the testing of AK that is was a good idea to have a lot of ingame-messages to prevent players from missing specific scenario elements, as most people are used to simply race everything they have to the victory hexes. The new 'mission-type' scenarios require a bit more careful reading of the briefings and messages. Personally I often overlook captured bonus units, sometimes I play a map, and near the end I suddenly see a lonely captured unit still parked where it spawned, and it has been there for three turns already or something. :oops:

lwbloomer
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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by lwbloomer » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:04 pm

Well, ThvN, you might be right about making units immovable to sort of handicap the player ... but isn't this almost the definition of lazy programming?

For example: If the player can easily move those "machine gun nest" infantry units onto the beach hexes and prevent a landing, then the AI landing schemes are no good. After all, we know from June 6, 1944, that the landings can be done even against real, movable infantry! I was actually surprised to see so many units so close to the crucial beach hexes in the first place.

Anyway, these are details. Overall I'm glad to see the 44 West campaign and am having lots of fun with it.

Next, I go back and redo the Cassino scenarios and see what happens with the Supply Depots and Mines. I suspect you're right; I play pretty fast and might well have simply skipped over them as I executed my normal maneuvers.

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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by lwbloomer » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:25 pm

Well, I took a look at the Nebels in the Monte Cassino scenario, and found that indeed the "Heros" page, if you click on the only character in the list, describes him as a "Fortified Artillerly Commander," which I suppose is the concept of Nebels embedded in fortifications and thus not movable. They show a movement rating of -1 in the Heroes list.

But oddly, in the normal unit display (if you right click on it), it shows a Movement rating of 1. This has to be a glitch, it seems to me.

Also I started up the Anzio schenario, and could find no hint of Supply Depots either on the map or in my unit list, which in fact is totally blank at the start. Nor in my Reserve unit list. The only reason I know about them at all is that they are mentioned in the briefing.

Do you suppose I need to reinstall this campaign?

robman
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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by robman » Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:14 pm

lwbloomer wrote:Also I started up the Anzio schenario, and could find no hint of Supply Depots either on the map or in my unit list, which in fact is totally blank at the start. Nor in my Reserve unit list. The only reason I know about them at all is that they are mentioned in the briefing.

Do you suppose I need to reinstall this campaign?
Yes, I think you do need to reinstall. I just restarted the campaign to check, and the supply dumps are on the map and in the unit list in the deployment phase. There are six of them.

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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by GogTheMild » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:33 pm

lwbloomer wrote:Well, ThvN, you might be right about making units immovable to sort of handicap the player ... but isn't this almost the definition of lazy programming?

For example: If the player can easily move those "machine gun nest" infantry units onto the beach hexes and prevent a landing, then the AI landing schemes are no good. After all, we know from June 6, 1944, that the landings can be done even against real, movable infantry!
Well, arguably not. On the day most 'German' beach front troops were poor quality. Frequently Russian or Polish draftees. And the divisions had little operational or tactical mobility. The majority were garrison divisions. The 352 division (which had 2 battalions at Omaha) was classified as 'mobile' because it had horses to pull its artillery and part of one of its three regiments was equipped with bicycles.

I can readily imagine these troops manning their pill boxes and trenches more or less resolutely. If an officer had been stupid enough to order them down on to the open beach I find it difficult to imagine them doing so. If they were to leave their fixed positions - either voluntarily or by being forced out - they would leave their main weapons, their ammunition, their communications and their comfort zone. They simply would not be able to operate as a coherent military force - they were not trained nor expected to operate as 'infantry' as we know it. Their military value would be negligible and so it seems reasonable to represent this by making them immobile

I don't think that it is lazy programming. I think that it is a sensible representation of the real situation.
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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by lwbloomer » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:46 pm

Gog the Mild:

You make a persuasive argument! I suppose that basically most of the infantry anywhere near the beaches on D-Day had "die in place" orders, that being Hitler's immutable rule by this time in the war.

Because they can't be told to retreat, much less attack, I'm willing to accept your reasoning on this.

Incidentally, if German infantry had attacked Omaha beach near the height of the battle there, they probably could have pretty much exterminated the Allied troops in that section and the further landings there would have been called off. It was very close as it was on that beach. But as you say, a lot of the troops were less-then-stellar non-German troops, so attacking was probably never even thought of. Rommel would have thought of it, of course, but ... even had he been present and in total command the troops were probably not up to the task.

So all in all, I'll retract my labeling of the unmoveable units as a "problem" and instead call it a "challenge" built in by the programmers.

My apologies to the programming staff; I should have thought about all this a bit more before calling it a problem.

So my last issue is the invisible Supply Depots. I'm going to try uninstalling the campaign, then re-downloading and installing it. See if that fixes the oddity.

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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by lwbloomer » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:48 pm

And a quick note for people possibly new to Panzer Corps: My minor complaints about this campaign addition are just that, minor picky stuff.

I love the Panzer Corps line of products, have purchased every new campaign as soon as it comes out, and can't wait for more!

lwbloomer
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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by lwbloomer » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:58 pm

Dang!

I uninstalled 44West, then re-downloaded the campaign file and installed it.

Same results. No Supply Depots in the ANZIO map anywhere.

I should add that I DO get the proper messages, including the one about minefields ...but there are NO minefields on the map when I get the message!

I have no more ideas. Help!

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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by robman » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:45 pm

Hey, I'm confused, too--everyone else is talking about an immovable Nebelwerfer unit in the Cassino scenario, but I didn't get one, just the two mountain troop units. Is it supposed to appear at the very beginning of the scenario, or does it show up later?

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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by Kerensky » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:04 pm

lwbloomer wrote:So my last issue is the invisible Supply Depots. I'm going to try uninstalling the campaign, then re-downloading and installing it. See if that fixes the oddity.
In the past, invisible units has typically been a result of user modifications. If you have any mods, especially ones that modify the equipment list, this could be responsible for your invisible depots. I would check that first.

robman
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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by robman » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:08 pm

How about the Nebelwerfer in Cassino? Should that be visible from the beginning? My only mod is Real Sound.

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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by Kerensky » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:18 pm

There's Cassino, and then there's Monte Cassino as well. The former does not have the artillery units and has mountain infantry, the later has the artillery units and paratrooper units.

Historically, there were several major battles for Monte Cassino, so we wanted to have more than one to do it justice. :)

robman
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Re: Panzer Corps GC '44 West Arrives on the Front!

Post by robman » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:24 pm

Aha! I am reassured now--though I sure could use some Nebelwerfers about now anyway...

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