Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

PC : Turn based WW2 goodness in the mold of Panzer General. This promises to be a true classic!

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krugec
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by krugec » Tue May 21, 2013 2:13 pm

n the DLCs the range for when heroes are gained are
100-300
301-1000
1001-2000

fliegenderstaub
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by fliegenderstaub » Tue May 21, 2013 2:50 pm

Thanks, krugec! So there will be additional heroes! :D

Btw: Your record, especially against AA, looks very impressive! Defense +9 +1 +3 - a flying fortress... :wink:
...and like the once-mighty Mahi-Mahi, you will end
up on a poo-poo platter in the Tikki Hut of life! -Al Bundy -

Legatusi
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by Legatusi » Tue May 21, 2013 6:11 pm

Im playing the dlc in Field Marshal, im now in the 3rd map off 1941 and i have 24k prestige, by the end of 1941 i will have all Heeresgruppe Sud in my reserve :mrgreen: (yes i name all my units historically and try to keep the unit organics, like 2 panzer battalions per panzer division). Is important to metion that i have been playing the game since 2011, its like my 7th full world war 2 trough the dlcs.
This update changed the dificulty, are we gaining more prestige in FM or its my losing less prestige to reinforment?

One last thing i would love if we had to manage or divisions and mantain the historical allowed TOE. I think we could use a headquarter like in PzG3 and manage or units and officers.

We field too many panzer Battalions and in the last years of war you couldnt do without them. its like we are leading the entire Heeresgroup Panzer Abteilung. One example is the s.Pz.Abt. (heavy Panzer Battalions), historically one corps had like 1, but we can have like 15 Tiger Battalions, Germany simply couldnt produce those numbers even if we had prestige.

orlinos
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by orlinos » Tue May 21, 2013 6:33 pm

KeldorKatarn wrote:My bigger issue with this is that with SE units, captured units and now free special units I feel like the game is taking the core bulding process in its own hands.
My thoughts exactly. I updated the game in the middle of 1941 and have just disbanded (mid-scenario, so as not to get the prestige) all units except my first imba-unit, Kettel – I liked the fact that he does have some drawbacks.
Kerensky wrote:As for difficulty, people have been asking for improved 'pre-made' forces at the start of every DLC and rather than toss them a few ordinary heroes, this solution let us include some very historical figures into the DLC who at the same time were very interesting and unique and not just a meh '+1 initiative' hero.
The difficulty can be easily manipulated with prestige settings etc. so this is not really a problem. The fact that super-fast infantry will now render “ordinary units” a bit obsolete – since it can move so fast – is a problem for me.

One great feature of the hero system in PzC for me is it makes each playthrough unique. Get a Move hero on AT or AA gun – you can plow through the enemy tanks with much more dynamics. Faster infantry creates a dilemma – do I leave it as ordinary infantry or mountaineer – and have it as fast as tanks – or do I make it a 3-move Grenadier or Pioneer. Do I turn a Range hero artillery into a Stug or Wurfrahmen – negating lower range of these units. Or do I leave it towed, thus having a range 4 behemoth to deal with AA/artillery safe from afar?

Multitude of fixed heroes might be annoying after multiple playthroughs, since they will always stay the same.

On the positive side: those who do not like special units can easily disband them, maybe keeping only chosen few for fun.

Having uber infantry units might also help new players who often struggle with proper ways of handling foot soldiers – been there, done that. Some might start to enjoy it and stop going “all tanks” . ;-)

I also like how developers listened to player wishes – I remember long discussions about having a low-defended recon plane – and that is exactly what we got!

The story of poor Rudel’s fight with German Army bureaucracy – is also hilarious and very well written. I enjoyed it very much and was even more surprised when I learned it was entirely true. ;-)
Piotr 'Orlinos' Kozlowski

sn0wball
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by sn0wball » Tue May 21, 2013 7:06 pm

Now that I understand this I am keeping my Rudel#1 for now. I gave him a Me-110 instead of his Ju-87 and so far he is performing well as an armed recon plane with a spot of 4.

As with others, I, too, have the feeling that the presence of Rudel#2 does affect game balance slightly, as does the special unit of mountain infantry with a move of 5. It certrainly makes replaying the GC much more fun, though.

Legatusi
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by Legatusi » Tue May 21, 2013 8:29 pm

orlinos wrote:The story of poor Rudel’s fight with German Army bureaucracy – is also hilarious and very well written. I enjoyed it very much and was even more surprised when I learned it was entirely true. ;-)
Read Stuka Pilot from Hans Ulrich Rudel its is story during the war.

KeldorKatarn
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by KeldorKatarn » Wed May 22, 2013 12:39 am

I feel I should menations this: Stuka pilot is a heavily re-edited version of a book he originally wrote in German and it heavily supports the invation into the USSR and the national socialist policy. Rudel was a known Nazi and after the war had contacts to dictators and neonazis in Germany. So despite his military fame, keep that in mind when readon litarature by him. It may be historically interesting but expect it to be heavily tainted with Nazi propaganda. Stuka pilot was re-editted to appeal to a US audience during the early cold war when anti USSR emotions were on a high.

GSlapshot
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by GSlapshot » Wed May 22, 2013 1:45 am

So if you put 1939 Rudel in an Me 110 1941 Rudel will appear also so you get two bonus units.

Legatusi
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by Legatusi » Wed May 22, 2013 12:17 pm

KeldorKatarn wrote:I feel I should menations this: Stuka pilot is a heavily re-edited version of a book he originally wrote in German and it heavily supports the invation into the USSR and the national socialist policy. Rudel was a known Nazi and after the war had contacts to dictators and neonazis in Germany. So despite his military fame, keep that in mind when readon litarature by him. It may be historically interesting but expect it to be heavily tainted with Nazi propaganda. Stuka pilot was re-editted to appeal to a US audience during the early cold war when anti USSR emotions were on a high.
I know Rudel was a nazi, but i dont care about nazi propaganda, or Russian or American, the only thing i care about is feats, are they true? Or is it propaganda has well? Exiting out of Stall after hitting the top of trees :roll:

sn0wball
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by sn0wball » Wed May 22, 2013 6:24 pm

As a probably unique feat among WW2 pilots, Rudel even downed one minister of defence, who had to resign after he allowed the Nazi to appear at a Bundeswehr event in 1976. :-)

KeldorKatarn
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by KeldorKatarn » Thu May 23, 2013 4:38 am

sn0wball wrote:As a probably unique feat among WW2 pilots, Rudel even downed one minister of defence, who had to resign after he allowed the Nazi to appear at a Bundeswehr event in 1976. :-)
It wasn't the minister of defence. The minister of defense actually was against this and dismissed two air force generals who had invited Rudel and forced them into retirement. Who lost his position was the parliamentary state secretary of the defense ministry, since he had authorized this invitation.
(A parliamentary state secretary is a member of the parliament who also works for one of the ministers, in this case the minister of defence).

Since Rudel wasn't just an ex-nazi but politically active in Germany in Neo Nazi partys, no to mention his personal friendship to several south american dictators, such an invitation was... not appropriate at the time. of course he was an ex member of the Immelmann squadron which was the squadron he was invited to, but his political views were at the time completely opposite to what the modern German army was sworn to protect. So politically he was an "unwanted person".

Dragoon.
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by Dragoon. » Fri May 24, 2013 2:45 pm

GSlapshot wrote:So if you put 1939 Rudel in an Me 110 1941 Rudel will appear also so you get two bonus units.
No. I put him into a ME110 and missed out on Rudel in Minks41. I don't know if you still can get him if you switch back to Ju87 prior playing Minsk41.


EDIT: Just used cheat codes to breeze through the '41 campaign to check this out. If switch his reconnaissance flight back to any type of Stuka Ju87 model before starting Minks41 Scenario (including deployment phase) you will get the second Rudel.

ThvN
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by ThvN » Fri May 24, 2013 3:35 pm

Dragoon wrote:No. I put him into a ME110 and missed out on Rudel in Minks41. I don't know if you still can get him if you switch back to Ju87 prior playing Minsk41.

EDIT: Just used cheat codes to breeze through the '41 campaign to check this out. If switch his reconnaissance flight back to any type of Stuka Ju87 model before starting Minks41 Scenario (including deployment phase) you will get the second Rudel.
Are you sure? I've checked with the editor, it seems the script only calls for an Axis unit containing the name 'Flight' to be on the map (starting from turn 2), this is the trigger to spawn Rudel II. I'm not a scenario designer, but I did not see any mention of a specific class or type of unit?

KeldorKatarn
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by KeldorKatarn » Fri May 24, 2013 3:57 pm

The script checks the name? What if I rename the unit? Can a dev comment on the specifics of the trigger pls? :)

Dragoon.
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by Dragoon. » Fri May 24, 2013 3:59 pm

I played Minks41 yesterday and realized I was missing him when I got my two Heroes from Smolensk41.
No way I would have missed the pop message you need to click and confirm and passed him using the "next" unit key. Especially since the Karl unit get announced via a special pop-up message too. I remember fondly how I was waiting for the Karl motar to arrive because of the impressive ground defense 32 Brest fortification.

Edit: Actually you're right. I just checked again and causality fooled me. Reason I didn't not get him was because I did not deployed him :D

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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by ThvN » Fri May 24, 2013 4:13 pm

EDIT: sorry, must have crossed posts (spent some time making the image), thanks for checking, Dragoon.
Attachments
rudel2trigger.png
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Dragoon.
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by Dragoon. » Fri May 24, 2013 4:35 pm

Like I said causality fooled me. Because I didn't not get him I assumed the reason was that I changed his plane. After reloading I got him when I switched his plane back from Me110 to JU87. This lefe the impression his plane type has something to do if the 2nd Rudel spawns or not.
But the only thing that matter is that you deploy Rudels plane. If he is not on the map but in your reserve you don't get him.

KeldorKatarn
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by KeldorKatarn » Sat May 25, 2013 3:43 am

Do you have to deploy him in every scenario to finally get him?

Dragoon.
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by Dragoon. » Sat May 25, 2013 11:34 am

Only in Minks41. However there are a 2 scenarios with pop-up messages with background information to the Rudel storyline. I think you miss them too if you have not deployed him in this particular scenario. Not that they are of any real importance.
You can check out he 1.14 patch notes to read them. DLC '40 scenario Eben-Emael and DLC '41 Belgrade.

Panzer Corps v1.14 update Patch Notes
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=42115

Kerensky
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Re: Special Heroes: Hans Rudel

Post by Kerensky » Sat May 25, 2013 5:40 pm

While that may be true, any user not familiar with the inner working of the editor won't automatically know this information. Those other two scenario pop up messages are important and ultra transparent in-game guides, letting the player know that 'something' is happening, and that by using Rudel they are activating triggers that would otherwise be dormant. After all, it takes something like 20 or 30 scenarios from Poznan to Minsk41, that's quite a bit to play through. :)

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