How upset do you get when you fail?

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Iwfan53
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How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by Iwfan53 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:53 pm

Hey everybody I am slowly inching my way through East 44 doing the entire eastern GC on Colonel difficulty, after my difficulties with Korsun, I actually managed to break out on my first try with a good 500 or so extra prestige in pocket after repairing all my units.

That said, I know things are going to only get harder from here (hell the 15000 or so prestige I have saved up is gonna be dust in the wind when the chance to upgrade to Tiger 2s and Jets comes along most likely) and I was just wondering, how upset do you tend to get when you need to restart a mission (typically by loosing an important core unit)?

Is it normal to be able to into these missions blind and get DVs on them on your first try? (I did manage to pull that trick off from start to finish of the 41 campaign) or is a certain amount of try try again needed if you want to limp your way through the entire GC even on the middle difficulty?

I would love to hear some feedback and hopefully learn that I am not doing too terribly at the game....

antoniocapo
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by antoniocapo » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:54 pm

A simple reload to the last allies turn usually saves my core unit from permanent death. I usually reload when losing high experience high cost units like tanks or planes. Recon and infantry are expendable. If i fail at the scenario, i get over the frustration fast by taking a break for a half hour or so then restart the scenario. After starting the scenario all the rage is gone and a new fun sense of determination to do better hits.

However i cant go to bed until i get my revenge and win it :P .

Stmcla
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by Stmcla » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:02 pm

I think the key to enjoying the game is to feel that your game playing improves as you progress. I first played through to the beginning of 41 when I realised, having read the forums, that I didn't have the right core and not enough prestige, about 5k. So I restarted and next time i reached 41 I had a better balance in the core and this time 35k of prestige. Up to now I rarely restarted a mission from the beginning but I would go back a save or two if I made a mistake and lost a core unit. I,m not an 'ironman' who plays through what ever the result. I also don't mind if I get an DV or a MV. However I'm now on 42 and finding it much tougher. I often having to replay each mission 2 or 3 times to get the right results, and not lose any core units. I think we all set our own level of challenge.

timek28
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by timek28 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:03 pm

This just come serves to show us how hard is to lead an army into real battle. Because it is easy to be a "general after the battle". That is why most of us replay scenarios or campaigns. Learn where enemy is hiding and learn scripted attacks. If only one attempt was given hardly any of us would finish the game. Also it is up to the map's designer to find a perfect balance of pain and pleasure, frustration of loss and excitement of getting new prestige and equipment. If one or the other goes to high, player can either give up or lose patience or get bored. IMO both are equally bad feelings...

ksasaki
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by ksasaki » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:56 pm

I know, actually I get really upset if they sneak up on my trucks (even if I don't completely lose the unit) because I feel like I made such a boneheaded move. I am a perfectionist myself, so you can imagine how frustrating this game can become for me. But I keep coming back for more! Right now I am burned out by too many grand campaign restarts that I am playing the original (Wehrmacht) campaign and hitting the same panzer III vs panzer IV question. I know the panzer IV will be better later, but right now the Pz III has higher defense and my Pz IV are just getting chewed up hard with such high replacement cost. I am tempted to just leave them at Pz I and Pz II!

Leading a real army is definitely harder, it is in realtime and you can't hit the "undo" button after you accidentally ordered your troops to the wrong place.

Iwfan53
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by Iwfan53 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:18 pm

Thanks guys this is more or less exactly the sort of stuff I wanted to hear, right now my main style of play is that if I screw up badly enough that I feel I need to restart I just restart the mission completely, the only exception was in Kharkov 43 when after completing it on the last turn I realized that one of my planes was about to run out of fuel.

It had enough movement to get to safety but "not" because I had already moved another plane onto the refueling space it could reach.

So restarted the turn, moved my plane to safety so it did not crash and called it fair enough.

captainjack
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by captainjack » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:41 am

I know the feeling Kasaki describes - I feel annoyed because my units have been hit, and annoyed because I did something dumb. But it does increase the pleasure when I get to kick the enemy back later on.

The advantage of having a big core with a lot of reserves is that when I lost my 4* stuka (not the Rudel one) by accidentally putting it one hex out of reach of the nearest two friendly fighters, I could shrug and recognise that at least I now have space to use my second strategic bomber. However, dumb mistakes do become more painful as you progress - losing a 4* 88 because the general didn't notice the space for a 13str 3* t34 to sneak through is very bad, and reform units is only so much help when you come back at 0 exp and lose 8 AA and AT attack strength.

Maybe I should be paying more attention.
Last edited by captainjack on Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Razz1
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by Razz1 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:47 am

I never restart and loosing a core unit is not fail.

Anfield
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by Anfield » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:15 am

I never restart either, although sometimes I restart a DLC over and over lol As for losing a core, I play with the reform unit on, so always get it back, just without any exp. I'll get pissed at myself when I do something stupid, which is normally when I rush an attack and dont spot something before hand. Normally I have a very Monty like style, which is I wont attack until all the troops are massed and ready with full support. Now from reading the forum for years, Id say most here have a Patten like style, which is why there was alot of complaining about troops in halftracks not dismounting to fight. But you arent meant to go driving around in halftrack at the front! haha

This topic is interesting because of the last few months of playing, hell its winter here what else I got to do, ive been think we dont ever lose enough unit in a battle. Think about it, sometimes we must kill 75 units in one battle! And yet, unless we make a mistake for the most part we never lose a single core unit. Now I toss aux units into the fire all the time, but never core. A few of you have mentioned real war and being a commander, imgaine if our core took even as little as 20% loses each battle, would you stop playing PC?

I think because sometimes we can go years in the game not using a unit that when we finally do, somehow thats hard to take. Personally id like to see the game set up where you do take more losses without it being impossible to win.

antoniocapo
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by antoniocapo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:02 am

I satisfy my need for tragedy on the field of battle by accepting step loses. Hearing that attack result after the enemy blows my unit with a lucky hit, the horrendous deep bass explosion, Boom! followed by a long stare at the screen looking for my unit. Losing an entire unit of 3+ stars with named heroes..no..no..unacceptable!

I play single scenarios if i want iron man mode, dead is dead. However in a long DLC campaign, after investing days or weeks on my units, its too painful to start at zero. Somehow i have trouble being a masochist.

Reform unit option seems like a happy compromise setting between cheating death and paying the price for a mistake, might try that in my next campaign.

ksasaki
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by ksasaki » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:03 am

I hate it when you have two planes that need to refuel at only the same airfield, then it is 1 turn until decisive victory!!!! you know the red fuel that only stepping on the airfield is enough to refuel it :(

timek28
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by timek28 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:16 am

The problem with the whole restarting and replaying thing besides other things is the fact that AI units have steadily increasing experience function. That is AI as time progresses never fields any green units, only more and more experienced units. Also all AI units are of the same experience.

This is highly unrealistic and I have mentioned this problem in other threads. Also it is completely unrealistic that user during the course of war has to keep in tact almost every veteran unit in order to win. Loose 2 strong Tiger 2s and you'r done for. If AI had green units here and there even in late battles then loosing an experienced core units wouldn't be such a pain or demise. However knowing that AI will steamroll you with 3 times more tanks which ALL have 3-4 stars gives no maneuvering option in terms of loosing core units, which in turn gives a sense of incredible anxiety if you start loosing core units.

BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:13 am

Only restart if major wreckage happens or I lose a DV by 1 turn (odds to kill enemy, turns out he survives on 1hp). WWI is a good place to see major wreckage (Verdun, Brusilov, Cambrai...) so it has become normal for me to lose 10+ core in one turn and not really care (who really is worried about 10 units if each costs 100?)

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endur
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by endur » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:57 am

There are some scenarios where restarting eliminates major surprises, so you will end the scenario with considerably reduced losses since you know where the enemies are coming from.

Personally, I play with the reform units option, which allows me to take some losses without crippling my core forces.

DV vs. MV -- It kind of depends. While I try for a DV, in some scenarios it does not matter whether you get a DV, a MV, or a loss.

If I really need to get a DV for the scenario, then only getting a MV would be disappointing.

With regards to WWI, I recently read Rommel's book. From the description in the book, his mountain battalion took very few losses between 1915-1916 (Mostly maneuvering and flanking the enemy and accepting enemy surrenders). He spent the last year of the war attached to a HQ command, so he missed the bloodiest fighting.

cougarranger
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by cougarranger » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:29 am

What's does DLC mean?

ksasaki
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by ksasaki » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:43 am

cougarranger wrote:What's does DLC mean?
downloadable content...in other words extra stuff from the base game like Afrika Corps, the Grand Campaigns, and Allied Corps

Anfield
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by Anfield » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:00 am

ksasaki wrote:I hate it when you have two planes that need to refuel at only the same airfield, then it is 1 turn until decisive victory!!!! you know the red fuel that only stepping on the airfield is enough to refuel it :(
You know as long as you can get in the hex next to the airfield your plane will live even if the fuel tank is red. :D

Anfield
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by Anfield » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:04 am

cougarranger wrote:What's does DLC mean?
Thats the Down Load Campaign. Where you buy each year of the war starting from 39 and going on to 45. Each year is about 15 battles and you can fight in the east or west from 43 on. Highly recommend it if you like playing, its far better than the main PC game.

Naxor
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by Naxor » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:41 am

Anfield wrote:
cougarranger wrote:What's does DLC mean?
Thats the Down Load Campaign.
Or downloadable content. :wink:

antoniocapo
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Re: How upset do you get when you fail?

Post by antoniocapo » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:32 pm

Anfield wrote:
cougarranger wrote:What's does DLC mean?
Thats the Down Load Campaign
OMG this one was awesome :lol: And makes more sense too.

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