Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

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joe6778
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Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by joe6778 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:21 pm

I do well up until '43. After that, I have a very difficult time moving on in the campaigns. Tips I've received in the forums have helped to a point, but I'm still getting my clock cleaned. I've been on the verge of quitting many times.

I was wondering if there are video walkthroughs/detailed tutorials similar to Deducter's AAR playthrough videos. They're helpful but they don't really teach nuances of strategy and tactics, the reasons behind his actions, or the game mechanics.

ThvN
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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by ThvN » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:31 pm

Hello, the later GC's are more difficult than the earlier ones, it can feel like playing a higher difficulty. I got into trouble fairly quickly the first times I tried GC'43 East. Speaking of which... what difficulty level do you play at? Do you use 1.14 rules or 1.20?

I don't know if any truly detailed AAR's exist, but if you think you need more advanced tactics or pointers about what works, just let us know what particular problems you encounter. For example certain enemy units can give lots of trouble or friendly ones may be mishandled.

Is there anything you feel lacking in your core or are unsure of? I used to have too much air units and be very agressive with them, which can be costly in the later years, especially since the 1.20 patch. To learn how to better deal with the increased difficulty I lowered it slightly, which made it less frustrating to continue.

JimmyC
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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by JimmyC » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:04 am

I just finished Streets of Moscow (2nd from last in ’41 campaign) on General. I’d been finding it relatively easy going so far, getting DV’s on all scenarios. You have to be diligent and careful, but can generally get away with some mistakes. I was in for a surprise with Streets of Moscow though. Wow that was a tough one. First time not to get a DV, but to be honest I was happy to take the MV in the end. I lost two 3-star units (a Fallschirmjaeger and hero Gebergsjaeger), with about a quarter of my force on <5 health at the end (I don’t like to reinforce mid-game, although was forced to on several occasions in this one). So I can only imagine what its going to be like come ’42, let alone ’43. :shock:

BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:56 am

JimmyC wrote:I just finished Streets of Moscow (2nd from last in ’41 campaign) on General. I’d been finding it relatively easy going so far, getting DV’s on all scenarios. You have to be diligent and careful, but can generally get away with some mistakes. I was in for a surprise with Streets of Moscow though. Wow that was a tough one. First time not to get a DV, but to be honest I was happy to take the MV in the end. I lost two 3-star units (a Fallschirmjaeger and hero Gebergsjaeger), with about a quarter of my force on <5 health at the end (I don’t like to reinforce mid-game, although was forced to on several occasions in this one). So I can only imagine what its going to be like come ’42, let alone ’43. :shock:
'42 - Annoying but not to hard scenarios
'43 - Hell

I can only guess '44, as I haven't played that far, but my guess is "HELL!!!"

- BNC
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Victor_K
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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by Victor_K » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:44 am

Just at the end of 1944, Budapest. It really helps if you plan your defences properly. If facing lots of armour, setting up kill zones with your infantry. Making armour come at you in close terrain, such as cities. Have lots of artillery; I am currently using 4 AA 88's or better (all 4+ stars) I have 2 Tigers, 4 Tiger II's, 4 Panthers. Lots of infantry, lots of artillery. I use 2 Ju87 and 1 strategic bomber. I am currently at 32k in prestige on FM.

I have not seen any better AAR's than Deductor's. Pay close attention on how he defends. How he positions his units. How he uses his artillery.
Do not get discouraged, this is a fun game and it can get challenging.

Victor

captainjack
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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by captainjack » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:53 am

I've just finished 43 (after some unsuccessful attempts) and am starting on 44 East. The unsuccessful tries were mainly due to mistaking ambition for ability.

It's generally good practice to look at the map and read the mission objectives, but it seems to be more important for 43 East. Be willing to make a call on whether you aim for DV or MV early on and be willing to change your mind. There are scenarios with difficult terrain and well entrenched conscript units scattered about in the perfect place to hold you up at a critical moment and just enough mines to make you think its OK then trap your 4* tiger in close terrain next to three SMG units.

In early 43 the T34/43 and KV1C are well armoured, hit hard and often have 3*. Here and there you will come across 4* units - when they mention Guards units, start to take care. Later you will start to meet KV85 - about equal to a Panther and IS1, which are very nasty - SA 11 is bad for your infantry. There are also some decent fighters (Yak 9 I think) that are nearly as good as FW190 - another argument in favour of AA to hit them before your fighters engage. The good fighters look very like the rubbish early ones you met in 41, so check before hitting the attack button too soon.

The thing that caused me most trouble was where I had reasonable success in mid game, and pushed a bit too far forwards. Suddenly a dispersed force heading for objectives is faced by numerous 3* tanks and those nasty ISU152 that are almost indestructible. You find you have only two or three ammo left and are out of fuel and - back to AK or AC to unwind then start again...

To sum up:
Caution, restraint and planning will serve you well.
As will two or three 3* Elefants (you know those 37mm AT guns that were a little bit of use in 1939 and 1940 that you carefully got to 2* and retired for later while you developed the next one and the next? This is when you will be glad you did that).

Good luck and remember that if it all goes horribly wrong there's lots of others who have been there and will understand when you curse the idea of invading Russia.

BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:00 pm

captainjack wrote:Good luck and remember that if it all goes horribly wrong there's lots of others who have been there and will understand when you curse the idea of invading Russia.
Does the German army ever learn that "Invasion of Russia = Loss of war?"

I mean, they helped Napoleon, and lost.
They invaded in WWI, conquered them, and then lost
and in WWII, they invaded, and lost!

Stop invading - Russia cannot be beaten. (Well, my stormtroopers took over for a few hours, but then they got bored, and so they left - to play "who can hit Mars with a bullet first?".)

- BNC
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Naxor
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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by Naxor » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:43 pm

Deductors AARs are little obsolete because played under easier rules than the current 1.20 is. (softcap) and is missing GC 45. I truly would love to watch GC 43-45 video AAR under newest rules and field marshal difficulty. Think that day wont never come. :|

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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by Scholomancer » Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:04 pm

Honestly, it's about methodical deployment and chess-like advancement of the units you bring to the scenario. It's tough as it's against my nature too to be so timid, but boldness and risk-taking in this game leads to heavy losses and serious drains on prestige.

Also, it's about what units you develop in a campaign and deploy to the scenario. You need at least of few of everything every scenario, but the balances are important for specific scenarios.

I went through tank-heavy the first time and was prestige getting eaten in places like Moscow, Stalingrad and Kursk where tanks aren't so good in close combat, and spent the late game trying to develop infantry. This time I went in as infantry and arty heavy (and relying on captured tanks to swell my ranks) but was getting smashed on the mobility and the tank-country scenarios. Or having too many planes in an AAA-heavy or (or any Western Front map) scenarios leads to unacceptable drains on prestige repairs on your aircraft. (Which is why the Poltava is so good, as it gives you something I always ignore until then; developing high exp AAA units of your own to combat zerg rushes of planes.)

So a mixture of picking the right pieces to solve the problem and planning them in a careful, methodical manner.

joe6778
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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by joe6778 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:05 am

I've played PzC vanilla and the Grand Campaigns many times. I start 39-41 at Lieutenant difficulty to gain prestige and then I play Colonel from 42 on. I usually begin East 42 with over 45000 prestige. By the time I reach 44 East, I'm down to about 6000.

My units have no trouble destroying Russian units until 43. Up to that point I mostly get DVs. After that, everything changes. The Russian units are harder to kill and the units never stop coming. Wave after wave of attacking Russians. Most scenarios I just play for a MV because I know when I approach additional Victory hexes for the DV they're guarded by tons more Russian units and my force doesn't have the power to continue the counterattack.

I can't complete 44 East so I can't move on. I've gotten a lot of tips and advice on these forums, but I'm still having a very hard time. My core has tons of Tigers, Panthers, Fw190s, Arty, three Tac Bombers, etc., but it's no use. That's why I was wanting to watch someone actually play the scenarios and give tips during the playthrough, sort of like Deducter's but more in depth.

I keep restarting East 43 to see if I can reach East 44 with more prestige. I hate to lower the difficulty, but I just can't continue through to the later campaigns. I've experimented with different custom settings and now I'm trying Colonel/1.22/Reform Units/Dice chess.

captainjack
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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by captainjack » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:54 am

joe6778 wrote:I keep restarting East 43 to see if I can reach East 44 with more prestige. I hate to lower the difficulty, but I just can't continue through to the later campaigns. I've experimented with different custom settings and now I'm trying Colonel/1.22/Reform Units/Dice chess.
You may be having prestige cap issues. Prestige cap can have an effect as early as 1941, and can be working at maximum early in 43, but there's no easy way of telling that it's working. Some people love prestige cap. I don't, and switched it off as soon as I found out how. I am quite happy with a reasonably mixed force that's mostly only 11 or 12 strength and the ability to judge my success (or lack of it) by how much prestige I can accumulate. But that's just me.

There's a few discussion threads that cover prestige cap and how to minimise the adverse effects - well worth a look. Even without prestige cap, you can get through a ton of prestige on things that don't add much benefit. Some of the prestige management tips in the discussion threads may even slightly improve your combat effectiveness while cutting down the prestige demands.

For info the transition from Colonel to General didn't seem to be too painful. Enemy prestige is a little higher, but most of the expensive reinforcements are scripted, so the AI prestige makes little difference, except it will spam more BT7s than BT5s with more prestige. The AI tactics are a bit different. To me it appears to be more aggressive which can be harder, but it also makes it more likely that well entrenched units come out into the open to attack (and that armoured vehicles enter close terrain) which can make life easier. If you know what you're doing you can set up traps to encourage this behaviour, but my success at this is limited. There are experts on this, but I am not one.

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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by Scholomancer » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:24 pm

I am not a great expert on the prestige cap either, but pre-cap I would have liked to enter the Stalingrad and Kursk mini-campaigns with about 12K prestige. If I go into those scenarios with this amount of prestige, I might not have any prestige left over but I'd have my army intact, strong and sometimes improved. Anything less and I was having to make some hard choices by each of the third scenarios. I had to restart my latest Kursk campaign as I bogged down in Oboyan too weak to continue! (And I wanted to get to Kursk Armoury :))

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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by captainjack » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:12 pm

Scholomancer wrote: I bogged down in Oboyan too weak to continue!

Last time I played Oboyan, I was very glad I had saved on the last turn at Orel, so I could go back to Kursk North!

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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by Dragoon. » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:31 pm

joe6778 wrote:I've played PzC vanilla and the Grand Campaigns many times. I start 39-41 at Lieutenant difficulty to gain prestige and then I play Colonel from 42 on. I usually begin East 42 with over 45000 prestige. By the time I reach 44 East, I'm down to about 6000.

My units have no trouble destroying Russian units until 43. Up to that point I mostly get DVs. After that, everything changes. The Russian units are harder to kill and the units never stop coming. Wave after wave of attacking Russians. Most scenarios I just play for a MV because I know when I approach additional Victory hexes for the DV they're guarded by tons more Russian units and my force doesn't have the power to continue the counterattack.

I can't complete 44 East so I can't move on. I've gotten a lot of tips and advice on these forums, but I'm still having a very hard time. My core has tons of Tigers, Panthers, Fw190s, Arty, three Tac Bombers, etc., but it's no use. That's why I was wanting to watch someone actually play the scenarios and give tips during the playthrough, sort of like Deducter's but more in depth.

I keep restarting East 43 to see if I can reach East 44 with more prestige. I hate to lower the difficulty, but I just can't continue through to the later campaigns. I've experimented with different custom settings and now I'm trying Colonel/1.22/Reform Units/Dice chess.
If you just want take a look or don't mind playing with the classic rules 1.14 (no prestige cap) you can use one of my saves. I'm currently replaying the complete GDC for the Steam achievements.
Settings are general difficulty, classic rules set 1.14, chess mode and reform units.
The '44 save is from Mogilev turn 3 with 119k prestige (The prestige counter resets when you hit 100k, but if you hover over the counter it shows the true amount)
The second save is during the setup up phase on the first mission from '45 with 143k.
If you're looking for a '43 save you can find one here,
viewtopic.php?f=121&t=49975&p=471913#p471824
Unpack the save games to this folder to load them ..Documents\My Games\Panzer Corps\Save
Attachments
(04.06.2014) Goldap, Turn 1.rar
(51.17 KiB) Downloaded 122 times
(28.05.2014) Mogilev, Turn 3.rar
(54.41 KiB) Downloaded 123 times

matterhorn

Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by matterhorn » Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:56 am

Hello Joe,

you don't dare and quit, right?

There are some good tips here:
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=29134
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=26367

not exactly
joe6778 wrote:...video walkthroughs/detailed tutorials similar to Deducter's AAR playthrough videos. ...
rather
joe6778 wrote:...teach nuances of strategy and tactics, the reasons behind his actions, or the game mechanics.
Once you unterstand the game tactics it's possible to make a DV in every scenario. Personally I would say it's comparatively easy, but I've been playing PG/PC quite a while... :wink:
(I played on Lieutnant in the first runs to learn PC and play now on Colonel. I did not change any settings - all standard.)
The challenge for me was so far to capture every flag and destroy all units in every scenario. I can't do that everywhere, but in most scenarios. Another real challenge would be not to update all your tanks to Tiger II and Panthers in '44 east and '45 east.
Keeping some Pz IV and Stug III or Stug IV while standing against all those russian armor - IS 2, SU 100, SU 152, ... you will be glad when facing only a T 34/85.
Keep going 8)

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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by joe6778 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:37 am

I don't know what my problem is, but the Grand Campaign after East 42 is totally frustrating to me because it's so unlike 39, 40, 41 and 42: never ending waves of tough Russian units. Like I said, I've been playing PzC for quite some time (I completed the vanilla campaign a couple of times on Colonel.) I played PzG, PzGII, PzG Allied Assault/Scorched Earth, etc. so I have a lot of experience with these games. I have posted a few times on the forums with the same complaint and I've already gotten a bunch of good tips. My game has improved but I just don't see how these later campaigns can be won on the higher difficulties. I get so angry that I just want to quit.

I feel exactly the same way that Muddy feels in his post "Very Upset": viewtopic.php?f=121&t=49449

For instance, I'm playing Olkhovatkla 43 East after getting a DV in Kursk North, and it seems to be impossible to get a DV in this scenario. My units are getting shredded around the main city, and I sent another group of units down the extreme east side of the map. I might reach the lower eastern Victory city, but it's surrounded by strong Russian units. I surrendered in order to view the battlefield and there were tons of Russians all over the map despite the fact that I already killed so many of them. Just total frustration.

Anyway, it's the same old story; I play the game for a while, reach this point in the campaigns, and then I get totally frustrated and angry and vent on the forums. I'm addicted to the game and I hate myself for it. It's only a game but to me it's an exercise in futility.

Thanks for hearing me out.

BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:47 am

If you have a save of end of '42/start of '43, maybe finish that scenario off, and then lower the difficulty 1? That worked for me (until the WWI mod began to take over all of my free time)

Or be extremist and set the difficulty so low that it is just a turkey shoot. I did this, and it is quite fun for a quick game.

- BNC
Creator of American Civil War mod for Strategic Command WWI!
Discuss here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4504986
Download: http://www.mediafire.com/file/tj4t11z3ttl142w/SCACW.zip/file

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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by endur » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:38 pm

I think the key is to remember that the DLC changes at Stalingrad.

Pre-Stalingrad is literally a different game from Post-Stalingrad from a scenario design perspective.

Another way to think of this is by comparing it to Total War: Shogun 2 ... in Shogun 2, Realm Divide literally changes the game... its a different game pre-realm divide and post-realm divide.

So, when you get to Stalingrad, put aside all your feelings on the pre-Stalingrad game, and focus on the post-Stalingrad game.

In fact, to really focus on this changed game, you might want to just start with the DLC 43 (or a later DLC), and try using the basic units you get. Yes, the first time you play a scenario, you may get crushed. But then move to the next scenario. And learn to cope with inadequate units facing overwhelming Russian hordes. With each scenario you'll get better and better.

Then when you go back to the full campaign, you'll have a luxury of prestige and units, and the 43+ scenarios will seem easy.

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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by joe6778 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:24 pm

I could do that, but I start East 43 with a very good core and very high prestige so I'm trying to advance with what I have. I hate to lower the difficulty because that feels like cheating; I want to win on average (Colonel) difficulty.

I know things went downhill for the Germans after Stalingrad, but this is a game after all, so I thought the player might be able to alter history by doing better than the Germans did. If the player gets DV after DV it should be reflected in the following scenarios. But most times the prestige for a DV isn't much more than for a MV, and regardless of how many kills the Germans get or how well they do, it doesn't have any effect on later scenarios. I got DVs at Moscow, Stalingrad, and Kursk! I should have been on the way to a DV in the whole war!

I guess looking for a PzC type game with those features (where what you do previously affects the later campaigns) is not available yet.

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Re: Need help with the DLC Grand Campaigns

Post by joe6778 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:48 pm

I just busted my ass to get a MV in this scenario and I earned 500 PP? WTF???

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