Am I screwed?

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ptje63
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by ptje63 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:34 pm

I recall the Hs.129 as far more dangerous in PG then in PC. Is that correct?

NotOneStepBack
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by NotOneStepBack » Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:50 pm

My infantry all still have Opel Blitzes. The Airborne infantry have no motorized transport so I can drop them.

If you surround an enemy fighter with 2 or more planes before you attack there is a swarm bonus.

dks
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by dks » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:21 pm

NotOneStepBack wrote:My infantry all still have Opel Blitzes. The Airborne infantry have no motorized transport so I can drop them.

If you surround an enemy fighter with 2 or more planes before you attack there is a swarm bonus.
swarm: I forgot all about that with my fighters :idea: oh well I got them Polish fighters in the end and a star for my green 109's :mrgreen:

at the spoils of war deploy AND, I kept my Stuka this time after starting over AND, I got that baby to 2 stars AND, a PLUS 2 ATTACK HERO!!!

got my Luftwaffe where I want it now with 5 109E's, 1 Stuka, 2 He 111H2's most with 2 stars or close. Rudel recon is always at the bar and don't use him. Luftwaffe was my main head ache...looking better now.

have 6 arty now.

have not received any SE offers yet....NONE! wanted the prestige for selling them but maybe I'll get tanks later?

ok, now to start on my airborne infantry purchase and learn how to use them more once I get to the Norway battles. should be able to get some stars with the use of green units there and get ready for the 40' invasions.

you have made me think at different ways of approaching the game on FM. so far so good.
I will probably have 1/2 the prestige you have going into 40' but I wanted to use 39' to try and peak out some strong units along with getting my Luftwaffe out of the way first. will see as I go into France what happens there.

NotOneStepBack
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by NotOneStepBack » Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:13 pm

The airborne units are invaluable. If you hit the tab key at deployment they switch from ground deployment or airborne. For scenarios where you have air superiority, I start them in the air and drop them on minor towns. Now that I'm in '42 russia they stay with the battle group and are conscript destroyers. They were especially useful at The Hague.

Cheaper victors are better victories! The German army was efficient! :)

dks
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by dks » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:15 am

NotOneStepBack wrote:At Narvik, this is proving to be quick economical. I have 10k prestige before I start and all of my units in reserve are:

2x grenadiers (starting wehrmacht upgraded)
2x paratroopers
3x alpine infantry
1x pioneer
1x PZ IA (starting tank)
1x PZ 38 (picked it up free in one scenario)
1x SE PZ IIIF
2x Recon
1x Panzerjager
1x 3.7 pak
7x 10.5 cm art
1x captured 105mm arty
2x 8.8 AT/AA
2x BF 109
1x BF 110C (free unit)
2x HE 111

It is MUCH more economical to have a lot of arty, suppress, surround and surrender. Any suppression before any attack saves you lots of prestige. I also have never used elite replacements yet. I might not, but I doubt that would stand through Russia.
my prestige is pretty good for all the purchases, upgrades and over strength I did up to Narvik. at deploy Narvik I have 7843 prestige.

my reserves:

1x Werhmact Inf/truck +1 movement 12 strength
1x Werhmact Inf/truck +2 attack 12 strength
1x Werhmact Inf/truck 12 strength
2x Fallschirmjager one at 11 strength
1x Gerbirgsjager/truck 12 strength
1x Gerbigsjager ini +3 mov +3 (free unit)
1x Panzer 38(t)A att +2 def +2 spot +2 at 11 strength (free unit)
1x Panzer 38(t)A +2 attack 12 strength
1x Panzer 38(t)A 12 strength (the 38's I plan to make Pz IV's as I go along. will see when it is needed)
1x SE Panzer IIIF at almost 1 star got it finally at Lillehammer! that's all the SE units given to me in the game so far.
1x SdKfz 232 8Rad at 12 strength
5x 10.5 arty/trucks
1x 10.5 captured (all arty at 12 strength)
1x BF109E at 11 strength (almost 2 stars)
4x BF109E at 12 strength
1x Ju87B +2 attack at 12 strength
1x BF110C +1 attack +6 Ini (free unit)
2x He 111H2 at 12 strength
and old Rudel

as you say suppression and swarm attacks saved me a ton of prestige.

after Narvik I plan on some 88's. I know just the spot to place 2 of them when France comes up............

NotOneStepBack
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by NotOneStepBack » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:23 am

dks wrote:
NotOneStepBack wrote:At Narvik, this is proving to be quick economical. I have 10k prestige before I start and all of my units in reserve are:

2x grenadiers (starting wehrmacht upgraded)
2x paratroopers
3x alpine infantry
1x pioneer
1x PZ IA (starting tank)
1x PZ 38 (picked it up free in one scenario)
1x SE PZ IIIF
2x Recon
1x Panzerjager
1x 3.7 pak
7x 10.5 cm art
1x captured 105mm arty
2x 8.8 AT/AA
2x BF 109
1x BF 110C (free unit)
2x HE 111

It is MUCH more economical to have a lot of arty, suppress, surround and surrender. Any suppression before any attack saves you lots of prestige. I also have never used elite replacements yet. I might not, but I doubt that would stand through Russia.
my prestige is pretty good for all the purchases, upgrades and over strength I did up to Narvik. at deploy Narvik I have 7843 prestige.

my reserves:

1x Werhmact Inf/truck +1 movement 12 strength
1x Werhmact Inf/truck +2 attack 12 strength
1x Werhmact Inf/truck 12 strength
2x Fallschirmjager one at 11 strength
1x Gerbirgsjager/truck 12 strength
1x Gerbigsjager ini +3 mov +3 (free unit)
1x Panzer 38(t)A att +2 def +2 spot +2 at 11 strength (free unit)
1x Panzer 38(t)A +2 attack 12 strength
1x Panzer 38(t)A 12 strength (the 38's I plan to make Pz IV's as I go along. will see when it is needed)
1x SE Panzer IIIF at almost 1 star got it finally at Lillehammer! that's all the SE units given to me in the game so far.
1x SdKfz 232 8Rad at 12 strength
5x 10.5 arty/trucks
1x 10.5 captured (all arty at 12 strength)
1x BF109E at 11 strength (almost 2 stars)
4x BF109E at 12 strength
1x Ju87B +2 attack at 12 strength
1x BF110C +1 attack +6 Ini (free unit)
2x He 111H2 at 12 strength
and old Rudel

as you say suppression and swarm attacks saved me a ton of prestige.

after Narvik I plan on some 88's. I know just the spot to place 2 of them when France comes up............
Keep us updated! However I have not overstrengthed yet at all in the entire game, so that is probably the prestige difference. It's really not worth it except maybe for level bombers. You figure if it costs 80-150 per point and a measly conscript can take that away from any unit, you are throwing away prestige!

dks
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by dks » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:17 pm

NotOneStepBack wrote:
dks wrote:
NotOneStepBack wrote:At Narvik, this is proving to be quick economical. I have 10k prestige before I start and all of my units in reserve are:

2x grenadiers (starting wehrmacht upgraded)
2x paratroopers
3x alpine infantry
1x pioneer
1x PZ IA (starting tank)
1x PZ 38 (picked it up free in one scenario)
1x SE PZ IIIF
2x Recon
1x Panzerjager
1x 3.7 pak
7x 10.5 cm art
1x captured 105mm arty
2x 8.8 AT/AA
2x BF 109
1x BF 110C (free unit)
2x HE 111

It is MUCH more economical to have a lot of arty, suppress, surround and surrender. Any suppression before any attack saves you lots of prestige. I also have never used elite replacements yet. I might not, but I doubt that would stand through Russia.
my prestige is pretty good for all the purchases, upgrades and over strength I did up to Narvik. at deploy Narvik I have 7843 prestige.

my reserves:

1x Werhmact Inf/truck +1 movement 12 strength
1x Werhmact Inf/truck +2 attack 12 strength
1x Werhmact Inf/truck 12 strength
2x Fallschirmjager one at 11 strength
1x Gerbirgsjager/truck 12 strength
1x Gerbigsjager ini +3 mov +3 (free unit)
1x Panzer 38(t)A att +2 def +2 spot +2 at 11 strength (free unit)
1x Panzer 38(t)A +2 attack 12 strength
1x Panzer 38(t)A 12 strength (the 38's I plan to make Pz IV's as I go along. will see when it is needed)
1x SE Panzer IIIF at almost 1 star got it finally at Lillehammer! that's all the SE units given to me in the game so far.
1x SdKfz 232 8Rad at 12 strength
5x 10.5 arty/trucks
1x 10.5 captured (all arty at 12 strength)
1x BF109E at 11 strength (almost 2 stars)
4x BF109E at 12 strength
1x Ju87B +2 attack at 12 strength
1x BF110C +1 attack +6 Ini (free unit)
2x He 111H2 at 12 strength
and old Rudel

as you say suppression and swarm attacks saved me a ton of prestige.

after Narvik I plan on some 88's. I know just the spot to place 2 of them when France comes up............
Keep us updated! However I have not overstrengthed yet at all in the entire game, so that is probably the prestige difference. It's really not worth it except maybe for level bombers. You figure if it costs 80-150 per point and a measly conscript can take that away from any unit, you are throwing away prestige!
I wanted to see if a 13 strength would hold up with the v1.25 rules at FM. got my answer at Narvik...attacked the Spitfire with a (3)swarm and one of my 12 strength 109E's was reduced to a 9 strength a 10 strength for another. will see what that cost me on the next deploy....lesson learned....ouch!

1939 is my practice year....40' is tighten the belt start. combat random at normal can cost me a bunch of prestige....getting that into my head. the FM rules are set in.

Rifraff
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by Rifraff » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:54 pm

Have been interested to see how your pzIVs perform in 41 with the lack of hard attack compared to the IIIs...I do concentrate on getting exp on the IIIS before the IVs though.


As for Infantry. I have run through the dlc quite a few times. Always on FM or higher. Always going for DV's. Running through again because of a hard drive failure and wanting to get the bonus difficulty levels again. The more I run through. The more Infantry I use.

In mid 45 atm I have 17 infantry.mostly grenadiers.. All 4-5 stars and all with 2-3 heroes.. I regularly use 12 in offensive or defensive scenarios. For me they just increase in effect the further you go through the d

Late war, Infantry can be and for me are simply amazing

Everything comes down to playstyle though. Try multiplayer for the complete unpredictable moves though :)

dks
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by dks » Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:30 pm

overstrength mistake: I forgot about the losing your overstrength when upgrading out of class! was going to upgrade the captured 105 arty to a 15 cm sFH 18 but I will lose the 12 strength. well still learning lol. so this means I will have to get those 38(t)'s in the field asap. or anything else I plan on upgrading out of class that will be damaged to a 10 strength before the upgrade.

the Fallschirmjager at Eben-Emael made getting a decisive easier. nerve raking at first but getting use to the idea of their use.

the 8.8 Flak's take some thinking to use for offense. have the (2) new ones almost to a star. one good thing is using the new equipment is making me use less Luftwaffe.
at Eben-Emael I fielded only 2x 10 strength 109E's and 1x 12 strength He 111H2.

the important part: after bringing all reserves back to least their 10 strength(elite replacements), with most holding their 12 strength(arty, etc.). I have 10504 p. that's with a Grenadier upgrade on the +1 move inf.

now comes for some SPAT's. I have no AT's in my mix.

Albert Canal should prove interesting with very few 109E's for fighter cover. I'm usually Luftwaffe crazy.

getting use to using 10 strength units.

Rifraff: I'm leaning to the infantry as a main battle unit. attacking and defending in good entrenchment hexes not leaving them in open terrain is working for me. the Fallschirmjager I units I really like.

NotOneStepBack
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by NotOneStepBack » Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:46 pm

The key to using infantry is never position them in open terrain. If you see enemy infantry in open terrain, hit them with artillery and tanks and swarm them. When your infantry are in forest, swamp, rough, etc. they can hold their own, especially if there is artillery behind them. In fact the AI won't even attack them when they have arty support.

captainjack
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by captainjack » Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:15 pm

The captured Polish 105mm gets at extra shots each attack compared with the 150mm due to higher Rate of Fire. With a bit of experience it supresses a lot on soft targets but doesn't kill so many. The heavier 150 has a lower rate of fire (80% I think) which means it is more likely to get kills but with fewer shots will usually suppress fewer targets. I usually wait to see what kind of hero I get before upgrading this one. Spotting - disband for prestige, move probably keep it as a towed gun that can keep up with infantry, range - Stug 3 with 2 range is nice, as is nebelwerfer with 3 range, or keep it as is for 4range counter-battery fire. Attack is good on anything, D heroes can be good on Stugs for extra protection or to boost other badly armoured SP guns.

The no-overstregth approach is an interesting one. I've tried it a few times with reasonable success. The big bonus is it is cheap, and it means you have enough prestige for elite replacement within scenarios. As you get heroes - and especially when you start getting combinations - you might find that one or two overstrengthed combat units are worth it to allow you to deliver more powerful devastating attacks. Strategic bomber effectiveness for neutralisation and ammo and fuel stripping (2+experience stars) x (strength), so the difference between 10 strength 3* (50%) and 13 strength 3* (65%) is quite useful. They are about the only unit I routinely run at 14 strength.

I have found that infantry-heavy approach is very effective through 1940, but starts to get a bit harder to manage in Russia because the distances mean more time in transports. 43 onwards, I can take out most soviet armour in close terrain with a 12 or 13 strength grenadier unit (defending or attacking), but infantry in close terrain without artillery back up is much more vulnerable to experienced infantry than it is in the open.

dks
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by dks » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:48 pm

captainjack wrote:The captured Polish 105mm gets at extra shots each attack compared with the 150mm due to higher Rate of Fire. With a bit of experience it supresses a lot on soft targets but doesn't kill so many. The heavier 150 has a lower rate of fire (80% I think) which means it is more likely to get kills but with fewer shots will usually suppress fewer targets. I usually wait to see what kind of hero I get before upgrading this one. Spotting - disband for prestige, move probably keep it as a towed gun that can keep up with infantry, range - Stug 3 with 2 range is nice, as is nebelwerfer with 3 range, or keep it as is for 4range counter-battery fire. Attack is good on anything, D heroes can be good on Stugs for extra protection or to boost other badly armoured SP guns.

The no-overstregth approach is an interesting one. I've tried it a few times with reasonable success. The big bonus is it is cheap, and it means you have enough prestige for elite replacement within scenarios. As you get heroes - and especially when you start getting combinations - you might find that one or two overstrengthed combat units are worth it to allow you to deliver more powerful devastating attacks. Strategic bomber effectiveness for neutralisation and ammo and fuel stripping (2+experience stars) x (strength), so the difference between 10 strength 3* (50%) and 13 strength 3* (65%) is quite useful. They are about the only unit I routinely run at 14 strength.

I have found that infantry-heavy approach is very effective through 1940, but starts to get a bit harder to manage in Russia because the distances mean more time in transports. 43 onwards, I can take out most soviet armour in close terrain with a 12 or 13 strength grenadier unit (defending or attacking), but infantry in close terrain without artillery back up is much more vulnerable to experienced infantry than it is in the open.
good to know about the Polish 105mm. makes me feel better about the 12 strength :mrgreen: I upgraded my other 6 arty to the 150's at Albert Canal. should last me for a long time. have no heroes on any arty. basically they are in the 170 kills average. the 150 started the kill climbs for them. the Polish gun at 12 strength is still at 73 kills.

I am so used to the Sturmpanzer I, that this is a big adjustment in my strategies....this is good....makes me think and I am really enjoying the game much better following NOSB's equipment roster. fun trying equipment I would not normally use. can be ((((very frustrating)))) using the normal combat random rules in FM. been many what the #$%@'s and leave the room for a minute :shock:

slowly catching up with my prestige. starting the Hague with 11377 p after giving all units damaged the needed elite replacements to 10 strength.

have received only 2 SE units the entire game so far. an infantry(sold) and my Pz IIIF.

going to purchase one more Panzerjager IB for the Hague deploy. these are whimpy at best but need to learn how to use the AT advantage on tanks. the 88's I have been able to set traps. my poor recon trap gets a butt wippin each battle :P

only fielded (2) 109E's for Luftwaffe at Albert Canal.....they were busy to say the least. 88's helped some but were my tank killers first using recon for bait. killed all enemy aircraft though....not bad. that lasted all the way to the last turn. I don't like that at all but necessary to give all my units a chance at kills on the field.

thanks for the info and I use all the info I can!

NotOneStepBack
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by NotOneStepBack » Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:33 am

The PZ IV D's are not cutting it at Kharhov '42. I restarted scenario and upgraded them all to PZ IV F/2 's. Took me down to 28k ish prestige and will try scenario again. At least the upgrades to G variant won't be as expensive. Sold the two recon units to gain a little back.

TSPC37730
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by TSPC37730 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:34 pm

NotOneStepBack wrote:The PZ IV D's are not cutting it at Kharhov '42. I restarted scenario and upgraded them all to PZ IV F/2 's. Took me down to 28k ish prestige and will try scenario again. At least the upgrades to G variant won't be as expensive. Sold the two recon units to gain a little back.
Yeah upgrades are pretty much a requirement if you want to continue. As I see it, you'll probably have to upgrade your original tanks from '39 to a new family of tanks at least twice. First, you'll upgrade to either a Pz III or Pz IV & then upgrade within the series. In '43 you'll either have to upgrade to a Panther or Tiger, or wait until '44 for a Tiger II. Stars and heroes help, but, it's not enough.

'43 is when things start getting expensive. A 10 strength Tiger is 703. That means one green replacement point will cost you 70. That's why your prestige may start going south around then. Good luck!

dks
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by dks » Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:17 pm

NotOneStepBack wrote:The PZ IV D's are not cutting it at Kharhov '42. I restarted scenario and upgraded them all to PZ IV F/2 's. Took me down to 28k ish prestige and will try scenario again. At least the upgrades to G variant won't be as expensive. Sold the two recon units to gain a little back.
have you overstrengthed anything? is staying at 10 strength a problem yet?

for me I'm trying to build experience for too many and types of units. just don't have the punch at 10 strength to kill that last enemy unit and it is slowing me way down.

150's arty were a mistake for me. rugged defense is killing me even when I have the enemy in the red. really frustrating!

going back to the drawing board to get a handle on the normal combat random. I'm pushing too hard trying to get prestige points from extra cities. losing more than gaining.

had 13k prestige at Sedan deploy but I can see I need to go back and revamp my Core. I need to build on heroes for what I already have rather than purchase more units.

well back to my spoils of war last turn and see what I can do. I'm not ready for the Bear yet!

NotOneStepBack
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by NotOneStepBack » Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:43 pm

I haven't overstrengthed anything yet

NotOneStepBack
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by NotOneStepBack » Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:37 pm

Got a DV at Kharkov, but it was a tough fight. Lost 1 tank. 28.3k prestige (after upgrades) to start Simferopol, all tanks upgraded to PZ IV G's.

I gotta say, the 88's saved me at Kharkov, the AI loved sending tons of KV-1C's at me in hordes. Level bombers too and intelligent use of the rivers also went a long way.

Lagg3
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by Lagg3 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:43 pm

captainjack wrote: I have found that infantry-heavy approach is very effective through 1940, but starts to get a bit harder to manage in Russia because the distances mean more time in transports. 43 onwards, I can take out most soviet armour in close terrain with a 12 or 13 strength grenadier unit (defending or attacking), but infantry in close terrain without artillery back up is much more vulnerable to experienced infantry than it is in the open.
I found that AI does not tend to move its armor to close terrain, unless it doesn't have other options.
Besides, devs have interesting conception about defensive operations, and defending on Eastern front often means you've got to recapture key points before holding them. Assault operations against really numerous armor, performed by infantry... I'm really curious and eagerly waiting to hear how will it turn out.

captainjack
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by captainjack » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:56 pm

I'm playing 44 East at the moment.

While I have mostly Tiger 2s now, I still have a few Panthers (the speed makes them a good fire-brigade) and a KV85, and a pretty substantial artillery force (mostly SP but still including two towed nebelwerfers and a 17cm gun), and the infantry - mostly grenadiers and a few engineers - is an important part.

Where possible I place infantry in close terrain with another close terrain hex in front of that. This means that anything that attacks me gets suppression fire from the defensive artillery and then has to fight me in close terrain, and next turn I can attack that unit while it is in close terrain. However, there are times when infantry survives attacks better in the open than in close terrain because the GD is 7 or 8 rather than CD of 2.

For defensive battles, I have been looking for a good defensive position rather than defending the Victory hexes at all times. In most scenarios, victory does not require holding hexes at all times (but check the briefing first). Picking favourable defensive ground means I have an extra turn or two to gain entrenchment and get my troops into position. Enemy takes the undefended or poorly defended objectives then crashes into ambushes and well-organised defence lines. After a few turns the attack slows and I can counter attack, reclaim the captured hexes (which gives 100 prestige each for a recapture). As a bonus, the extra distance often means the enemy attack arrives more scattered and aircraft can hang around for only a short time before heading back for refuelling.

The most difficult point is to remember that a successful counter attack does not mean that I have won after 8 turns out of 20. There have been some close calls due to over-confidence.

Lagg3
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Re: Am I screwed?

Post by Lagg3 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:49 am

Koenig Tigers are sooo slow... They are at par with Tiger I due to larger fuel capacity, but non the less unsuitable for quick assault operations over long distances. In-game Fireflys and IS-2s are seriously superior to Panthers in terms of armor and initiative. Quite often my vanguard, comprised of fast and agile Panthers with spotting heroes, was decimated before KTs had their chance to intervene. Since then i only upgrade a tank to a KT if it has a hero with movement bonus. Wonder how will it be in Soviet corps, as IS-2s should be a bit faster.

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