To whoever did mission design for US '42

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nikivdd
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by nikivdd » Sun May 29, 2016 9:52 am

BJGeary wrote:There is some strange behavior in the El Guettar ('42) mission. You receive a captured Panzer IIIN at some point (I won't say when to avoid further spoiling). This unit, unlike those in previous campaign DLCs, or even captured units earlier in the US '42 DLC (such as the SdKfz 234/2), while being carried over from mission to mission does not become a part of your core. When you receive this unit it says it will remain with you throughout the North Africa campaign. Am I correct in guessing that the reason it does not become a regular core unit is because it will disappear once you move on to Sicily?

I'd like to respectfully ask if one of the devs would explain why this particular unit is treated differently than most other captured units (excepting same-scenario-only captured units like all but one of the Polish artillery on the Warsaw map)? It would be nice if this panzer became a normal core unit so that players who wished to could disband it and obtain its prestige value. Granted, it's a bonus unit that doesn't count against your core total, but I really don't see why it should be treated differently than the (rather nice and very useful) captured SdKfz 234/2 you get in an earlier mission.
It is not a strange behavior, it is actually a feature in the game that was introduced a couple of patches ago.
The Pz IIIN is a unique unit which follows your army to the next mission automatically, on the condition that this unit was not destroyed in the previous mission; so actually it is still better than a normal auxiliary unit which does not follow your army into the next mission. I just wanted to use this cool feature in US Corps; there will be more "traditional" capturable units joining your core army during the course of the grand campaign though.
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simcc
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by simcc » Sun May 29, 2016 11:55 am

I like the feature nikivdd, I use auxiliary troops as bait and cannon folder so the panzer plays perfectly and it heals automatically after mission hence saving prestige hahahaha

So far I would say I have completed GC42 on field Marshall and I say nicely done on the campaign. Very interesting and it's not easy even for a veteran hahaha. The combat prediction is really way off hahaha and it suprise me to hell on a lot of occasions. But I like how AI know how to use their unit to their advantage like Sahara unit etc

Oh I suprise why I get infantry type 43 on campaign 42 hahaha

Now onto GC 43

kverdon
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by kverdon » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:06 am

I will say I have been greatly enjoying the scenario design for US Corps 1942 and 1943. If definitely has the right "feel". With that said, I do think that there is just one thing missing. In the German Grand Campaign there were experience caps set so that you could only overstrength units for far for each DLC. I would propose that you cap experience so that you can only overstrength units to 12 in DLC 1943 and 13 in 1943. After that, let them go all the way to 15. I'm trying to do that as a "house rule". I also like that you are limitted to US units. In Allied Corps there was the temptation to rely on Churchhills as the main Tank until later 1944 where as in US Corps you have to maintiain a mix of Tanks and Tank Destroyers if you hope to have a chance against the Tigers and Panthers.

Well done, I'm enjoying this a lot.

Kevin

edahl1980
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by edahl1980 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:39 am

Problem with US corps is you struggle with prestige as if it was Germany'44.
Or atleast i do.

edahl1980
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by edahl1980 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:46 am

BJGeary wrote:On a different issue, but still on the subject of mission design for US '42, I have to wonder if changes were made to the DLC after playtest, or did everyone testing it just not read the pre-mission briefings? After the Tebourba mission the briefing presents you with a choice of 'Operation Spring Wind" or "Operation Morning Air" (neither of which when Googled yield any results, so I'm curious as to whether these represent real WW2 ops), but gives you absolutely no clue what the difference is between these choices.

Oh, and one more major issue regarding these DLCs: the Library contains no information on the US Corps campaign, so players have absolutely no way to know without multiple playthroughs what the consequences of victory levels or branching choices are.
Those were German missions.
Operation Frühlingswind and Operation Morgenluft.

robman
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by robman » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:03 pm

kverdon wrote:I do think that there is just one thing missing. In the German Grand Campaign there were experience caps set so that you could only overstrength units for far for each DLC.
There IS an experience cap in the US GC--it's just less noticeable because (a) you are starting with green units midway through the war and (b) as noted above, prestige is tight, so it is hard to provide mid-scenario elite reinforcements. (Heck, it is tough just to keep these rookies alive.) I think the cap in '43 is 375. Playing on FM, though, I haven't felt its effect yet--my only 3-star unit as of early '43, a B17, just got hammered early in the Palermo scenario--even the Italians are dangerous!--and I had to dumb it down with green replacements.

captainjack
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by captainjack » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:29 pm

The experience cap in 43 is over 400, as I now have a couple of 4* units.
I had noticed that prestige was quite tight and had to pull units out of combat in 42, as I couldn't afford to use elite reinforcements and couldn't risk a drop from 3* to none. With so few units deployed, this is a tough call.
Also, I'd usually put most units up to 12 strength with a few (mainly strategic bombers and some artillery) at maximum, but at the moment it's 11 for most units and a few getting 12.

However, these are good challenges and I'm having to think pretty hard most of the way through, and when I have got DV (and often MV) it has been on the last turn and with a small bit of luck.

simcc
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by simcc » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:53 am

@captainjack,

I myself are in the middle of GC43 and so far have no prestige issue namely I keep my force below 400 average (soft cap rules). I did some elite replacement in field almost every battle because those nashorn, elephant and tiger attack is very powerful and it can take of 7-9 strenght of my unit but besides that I am conserving my prestige as much as I can.

My force with overstrength is the GMC AT/Arty car which is very cheap at 200 prestige per unit hence even at strength 14 it is still ok with soft cap tolerance, my 2 4* hellcat are at strength 12, this 2 unit main function is to hunt big tanks like panthers, Tigers etc so minor engagement. I have 2 SE Rangers and 2 SE fighters so those are max out in strength. My priest is at strength 12 also 2 in total. Other than that I have 2 more overstrength paratroopers.

My air power have no overstrength besides the SE fighters. I think US planes are very expensive and If you overstrength might take you to soft cap very fast especially when you overstrength strategic bombers as they cost around 600 prestige so a stregth 12 is around 750+- prestige per unit that's too high.

captainjack
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by captainjack » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:27 pm

simcc wrote:namely I keep my force below 400 average (soft cap rules).
As I'm not using soft cap, it's probably a fault with the general.

Flaygor
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by Flaygor » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:47 am

Same here. I have set the rules to the old ones and I still get no prestige. I even ramped up the prestige slider....nothing. Even DJ's editor won't allow me to tinker with my units.

Sorry, but I just manually add prestige as I need it to replace my units. I don't mind a challenge, but this is the USA we're playing here, and I don't think resources were a problem.

Otherwise, I am enjoying the game, thank you for continuing to release new content for us! :D

BJGeary
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by BJGeary » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:35 am

Actually, U.S. resources were an issue, to a degree, in late '42 / early '43. Not so much with equipment as with the trained men to use it. The American factories could spit out a tank far faster than it took to train farm boys to effectively operate one, and the situation was worse for aircraft. Note my use of the word "effectively". It might take only a few weeks to teach someone how to drive a tank or load/fire the cannon, but that's a far cry from being able to hit German tanks and fighters that are moving and shooting back at you. Germans that have years of experience already. The Germans were not wrong in viewing the Americans as being pretty much cannon fodder. Even with Patton commanding, U.S. troops took horrible losses. Weight, more than skill or quality of equipment, is what turned the tide in North Africa for the U.S.

Personally, I feel that the experience cap in the '42 DLC is set way too high. It should be limited to 200-something, at best. Being able to have American units with more experience in Tunis than the Germans they're facing is quite ahistorical — and unrealistic.

kverdon
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by kverdon » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:55 am

I agree and would set the cap for 1942 to 200. My only beef with the DLC so far is that the prestige bonus between 1943 and 44 is about 1/3 too low. Your troops are bein sent to England for the Invasion of Europe so you should get plenty of prestige to upgrade and refit your units after grinding through Italy.

Akkula
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by Akkula » Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:28 am

Rosseau wrote:Hope that changes as campaign goes on...

I am repeating myself, but here is a wonderful mod. The broken English in the briefings just adds to the realism.

viewtopic.php?f=147&t=50342
:(
Eastern Front: Soviet Storm (v1.96): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=50342
Modern Conflicts (v1.5): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=72062

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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by IttoOgami » Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:01 pm

I liked so far what I saw from U.S. Corps. It was rather some scenarios of Soviet corps I did not enjoy (for example, both Japanese ones, or the Stalingrad map with the diminishing space).

BJGeary
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by BJGeary » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:51 am

I thought the Stalingrad mission design was pretty cool. I didn't "enjoy" that mission, but I don't see anything bad about it, either. The concept of an ever more restricted battlespace was novel, even if it came as a very rude surprise on my first playthrough. Once you know what to expect, it's no big deal.

Flaygor
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by Flaygor » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:50 am

I have to agree with the comments about limiting the experience of the US units and I may try replaying with a self-imposed limit on experienced replacements and see if my prestige can handle it! :D

One exception, the "Naples easter egg unit" has to become a 15 strength merchant of doom 8)

Edit: Okay, not actually the "Easter egg", as it appears I haven't found that yet, just a special unit that joined my corps.
Last edited by Flaygor on Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

kverdon
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by kverdon » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:47 am

Well I have finished U.S. Corps though 1945. For the most part I found the scenarios well balanced and thought out. I very much enjoyed most of it and it had a good feel to it. There were some issues however that detracted from my totally enjoying this DLC. They were.

1. Low Prestige, especially between 1943 and 1944. You can never really upgrade your air units as you do not have the prestige.
2. U.S. infantry 1943 is the only option 1943,1944,1945???? I believe the there was a TO&E change in 1944 why is this not reflected?
3. The best Air unit is the P-51H and that is not avail until the very end. With having to go up against the "Wunderwaffe" with mostly p-47's where is the P-80?? I
4. Speaking of the "Wunderwaffe" it got REAL old REAL fast having your Air Core shredded in 1945 by what should have been a non-existent Luftwaffe. If you want to make a fantasy "Wunderwaffe", fine, give me p-80's and the prestige to buy them.
5. Unit Stats - Why in the world is the HE-162 such an uber fighter. The best my 2Star, overstrengthed, captured me-262 could get was even odds. I thought the Salamander was as much a danger to its own pilots as it was to the Allies.

I think with a few changes it could be even better.

nikivdd
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by nikivdd » Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:09 pm

kverdon wrote:Well I have finished U.S. Corps though 1945. For the most part I found the scenarios well balanced and thought out. I very much enjoyed most of it and it had a good feel to it. There were some issues however that detracted from my totally enjoying this DLC. They were.

1. Low Prestige, especially between 1943 and 1944. You can never really upgrade your air units as you do not have the prestige.
2. U.S. infantry 1943 is the only option 1943,1944,1945???? I believe the there was a TO&E change in 1944 why is this not reflected?
3. The best Air unit is the P-51H and that is not avail until the very end. With having to go up against the "Wunderwaffe" with mostly p-47's where is the P-80?? I
4. Speaking of the "Wunderwaffe" it got REAL old REAL fast having your Air Core shredded in 1945 by what should have been a non-existent Luftwaffe. If you want to make a fantasy "Wunderwaffe", fine, give me p-80's and the prestige to buy them.
5. Unit Stats - Why in the world is the HE-162 such an uber fighter. The best my 2Star, overstrengthed, captured me-262 could get was even odds. I thought the Salamander was as much a danger to its own pilots as it was to the Allies.

I think with a few changes it could be even better.

The prestige reward after the final missions of DLC 43 is around 2000 PP. It was suggested somewhere to raise it by 1/3 but i think doubling the amount should be better.
In analogy to the German infantry, there is also no upgrade available for 44-45. It is not my call to make, but i don't expect any further official equipment file updates.
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BJGeary
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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by BJGeary » Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:23 pm

nikivdd wrote:... i don't expect any further official equipment file updates.
I suppose we'll just to hope that the mod community deals with it. Someday.

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Re: To whoever did mission design for US '42

Post by dustek » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:16 pm

Wait till you get to Gala Counter-attack in US 43.

An utterly ridiculous mission with totally OP enemy. You WILL be steamrolled, let alone get a Triumph victory. Among was other details are the utterly psychotic initial positioning options, an enemy that outnumbers you three to one, the fact you will immediately lose all your airports (and you don't have an aircraft carrier even though you did on the previous mission on the same map but you get the cruisers you had then), Tigers which you CANNOT defend against while fighting a horde of enemies. I've got pretty good experienced units. The previous mission is EXTREMELY difficult with a non-transferred from 1942 army.

Also the Tunis mission shows some signs of deliberate mischief versus players. For a Triump you need to destroy all infantry. Well guess what, an infantry unit is hidden away in the corner of the map, well away from Tunis so you'd need to send a battlegroup to it to defeat.

There is plenty of times your units will be annihilated in 1942 because they're outnumbered or just meet a Tiger.

Soviet Corps is a much much better expansion with much better design and I got through it with some difficulty. Only the Berlin mission is ridiculous, you're outnumbered by the Germans, which anybody who knows history is more of a fantasy than a 46 battle between the Western Allies and Russians. The map is much much too big which means the Germans get a ton of units to defend with. This should have been a steamroller battle with maybe a difficult fantasy fight or two afterwards.

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