Panzer Corps 2

PC : Turn based WW2 goodness in the mold of Panzer General. This promises to be a true classic!

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Resolute
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by Resolute » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:45 pm

- the game offers an absurd amount of units players can purchase which I think is great. However, even if you play with with the soft cap in place, most are not viable (especially late game) since defense trumps any other stat. On top of that (speaking grand campaign here) the AI fields
highly overstrengthed tanks/ATs and soley focus on low defense units which still gives the player the best purchase ratio when going for Tiger tanks since they will be mostly left untouched by the AI (air units aside).

One of the reasons why Soviet Corps fell short for me since even with all those new units, the KV tanks are just the best you can buy with the prestige available. I think the West Campaign had the best balance here since you could really bring a lot of different units an do fine.

- unit traits are a bit overpowered or underwhelming. I really don't need +1 movement on my fighters and I personally think +3 Attack as a trait is just far too good.

- I wish the game was showing more stats and allow player to revise them at a later point. I played through the grand campaign numerous time and I just wish I could had an option to check how I fared in my previous games. Why not even have a dedicated website where people can follow their progress, upload
replays to share them with other people.

- the AI really needs some improvement especially the way it prioritizes.

- I do not like rugged defense because I am not a huge fan of rng elements when it comes to strategy games.I'd rather prefer if it gave the defending unit a defense bonus.

- I'd love to see a similar supply system like in the Gary Grigsby series, which allows you to build pockets, drain the enemy supply lines. The game has something similar in place, not allowing/reducing the amout of supply you can get when being surrounded but I think it could do with some improvement.

- The Grand Campaign is the sole reason why I put so much hours into this game. I just adds so much immersion having a core force which you get through these enormous amount of scenarios. I only played through Allied Corps, Sealion and Soviet Corps just once because it never had the same feel for me.

- Keep the really good qualitiy of the maps, I think they really deserve some praise.

hs1611
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by hs1611 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:37 pm

Some adjustments and changes will be, of course, welcomed to PzC2. Many of them have been discussed/suggested here.

But the main thing is DON'T OVERCOMPLICATE.
There are others, more serious??? games out there, where the player can micromanage to his heart's desire.
The beauty of Panzer Corps, like its predecessor Panzer General, is its simplicity.

So, please, whatever you do, DON'T OVERCOMPLICATE.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by ptje63 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:28 pm

As mentioned somewhere else on the forum, I use a self-made Excell datasheet, on which I keep track of each unit - listing date assigned, heroes and their + values, SA/HA/IN/GD/CD values + effect of hero, awards and prestige. But according to their values I also add longer remarks. Would love to see a feature that offers room add own comments, apart from the Alt-N, rename option, which I use to add hero values, like "1.PG A2I1S1", but only applies to name of unit.

ptje63
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by ptje63 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:38 pm

Another request: the list of available units is sorted in a way that does not make sense to me, it does not help me to keep track of them. Would like an option to chose in different way to sort/list the units. The groups are arranged, like Pz.III's and IV's, but then I would like to have them sorted, for instance according to the name I give them, f.i. "1.PG", "2.PG", etc.

ptje63
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by ptje63 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:42 pm

hs1611 wrote:Some adjustments and changes will be, of course, welcomed to PzC2. Many of them have been discussed/suggested here.

But the main thing is DON'T OVERCOMPLICATE.
There are others, more serious??? games out there, where the player can micromanage to his heart's desire.
The beauty of Panzer Corps, like its predecessor Panzer General, is its simplicity.

So, please, whatever you do, DON'T OVERCOMPLICATE.
I support that - PC is a good balance of simplicity vs. complicity, not too easy but not too difficult to oversee and control. I know - its hard to comprehend or forcast the consequenses of each choice in the game (upgrade or not? now or later? etc.) - but that keeps PC fascinating. Predictability of a strategy game is its killer ;-).

ptje63
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by ptje63 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:32 pm

Another one: upon a new turn starting - highlight which units have been attacked and damaged - need supply. Or choice to do so.

ptje63
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by ptje63 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:45 pm

Or option to highlight types of units: on start of new turn I'd like to check fast, where are my scouts, tanks, etc. Planning a strategy for a new move has all to do about oversight - where is which unit to use for its best suite, place and opportunity.

RandomAttack
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by RandomAttack » Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:43 pm

The one thing I would like to see changed is the whole "experience"/overstrength mechanic. It seems way overpowered, basically ignores attrition, and creates as many problems as it solves. The player often has hordes of 15-strength units later in the campaign-- which is totally unrealistic. There was so much turnover IRL-- Russian "Guards" units with 300% casualties over a couple of years, etc. German Panzer units that were at 50% (or less) strength held together by a few good officers and NCOs. NOBODY had lots of "5 exp star" units towards the end of the war. And if you revamp the exp system, you can also mitigate a lot of the balance problems w/scenario design. No more Berlin battles where I have six 5-star Tiger 2's.

There is an entry in the game rules file that I've played with:
"Max strength which participates in combat (any strength above this is considered reserve)."

So say you enter "10". That means if you have a 15-strength unit only 10 is actually used in combat. Any casualties you take comes off the "reserve"-- allowing you to still attack at 10 until your strength falls below that. It changes the whole dynamic of when & where overstrength is used. I really like it, but of course the current scenarios aren't balanced this way so it's a mixed bag in current games. But it does get to the basic point: experience-->overstrength is overpowered.

OR you could limit the use of "elite" replacements (BTW, from where are we getting such "elite" replacements??) to force some attrition to take place. Right now, it's only limited by prestige.

I don't care how many battle streamers a "unit" has, all that matters is the exp of the troops actually present. A Soviet Guards unit sounds impressive until you realize it has 10% longer-term vets that somehow miraculously survived and 90% conscript newbies. It's just currently way too easy to cultivate a bunch of 5-star units (all sides).

Bottom Line: UNITS don't have experience, PEOPLE do. And those people suffered massive casualties/turnover over the course of the war. Experience is perishable.

JagdpanzerIV
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by JagdpanzerIV » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:09 pm

charge62 wrote:In no particular order.

Improved AI. Use artillery to soften targets in support of another unit, rather than fire after an attack has gone in. Use units to maximize value of their own zones of control. Avoid throwing armor into close terrain, when possible.

Leader bonuses that align better with the unit type.

Fix the soft cap. Make the soft cap status part of the regular interface. This doesn't have to be a hard number. It could be a percentage or a color coded light depicting how close to the cap you are or how far over. Include a toggle for the soft cap in the options interface. Perhaps even include a slider to change its setting, rather than just an on/off selection.

Recon aircraft for all nations and time frames.

All ground recon units can interrupt their movement, then resume. Ground recon needs to remain viable into the end game. The ability to move up, take a look, then withdraw behind your line, whether in offense or defense will permit this.
totally agree with everything you mentioned. to increase survival of scout units i modded their spotting to 4. yes this is silly that the AI attack with a unit, THEN fire with artillery at the end of the turn...this need to be changed.

more aircrafts in the game maybe, like more version available of the FW190A. the fw190D didn't replace the A-8 which was built till the end of the war.

JagdpanzerIV
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by JagdpanzerIV » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:11 pm

RandomAttack wrote:The one thing I would like to see changed is the whole "experience"/overstrength mechanic. It seems way overpowered, basically ignores attrition, and creates as many problems as it solves. The player often has hordes of 15-strength units later in the campaign-- which is totally unrealistic. There was so much turnover IRL-- Russian "Guards" units with 300% casualties over a couple of years, etc. German Panzer units that were at 50% (or less) strength held together by a few good officers and NCOs. NOBODY had lots of "5 exp star" units towards the end of the war. And if you revamp the exp system, you can also mitigate a lot of the balance problems w/scenario design. No more Berlin battles where I have six 5-star Tiger 2's.
play the game at feldmarschall level and i bet you wont have any 15-strength units :)

RandomAttack
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by RandomAttack » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:44 pm

Yeah, but the enemy sure will... ;) I get your point though, and there's a lot of customization/settings available. It just seems to me the whole experience/overstrength mechanic is outta whack.

SAS
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by SAS » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:21 pm

The only thing I would like to see is the map more like a painting like PG2 was. I like the 2D look but the maps need a major updated for this day in age.

Razz1
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by Razz1 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:15 am

RandomAttack wrote:The one thing I would like to see changed is the whole "experience"/overstrength mechanic. It seems way overpowered, basically ignores attrition, and creates as many problems as it solves. The player often has hordes of 15-strength units later in the campaign-- which is totally unrealistic. There was so much turnover IRL-- Russian "Guards" units with 300% casualties over a couple of years, etc. German Panzer units that were at 50% (or less) strength held together by a few good officers and NCOs. NOBODY had lots of "5 exp star" units towards the end of the war. And if you revamp the exp system, you can also mitigate a lot of the balance problems w/scenario design. No more Berlin battles where I have six 5-star Tiger 2's.

There is an entry in the game rules file that I've played with:
"Max strength which participates in combat (any strength above this is considered reserve)."

So say you enter "10". That means if you have a 15-strength unit only 10 is actually used in combat. Any casualties you take comes off the "reserve"-- allowing you to still attack at 10 until your strength falls below that. It changes the whole dynamic of when & where overstrength is used. I really like it, but of course the current scenarios aren't balanced this way so it's a mixed bag in current games. But it does get to the basic point: experience-->overstrength is overpowered.

OR you could limit the use of "elite" replacements (BTW, from where are we getting such "elite" replacements??) to force some attrition to take place. Right now, it's only limited by prestige.

I don't care how many battle streamers a "unit" has, all that matters is the exp of the troops actually present. A Soviet Guards unit sounds impressive until you realize it has 10% longer-term vets that somehow miraculously survived and 90% conscript newbies. It's just currently way too easy to cultivate a bunch of 5-star units (all sides).

Bottom Line: UNITS don't have experience, PEOPLE do. And those people suffered massive casualties/turnover over the course of the war. Experience is perishable.
One way to do this is increase the cost of experience by programming a date range.

We would have seven date ranges, 39,40,41,42,43,44,45

Then it can be adjustable per year.

Longasc
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by Longasc » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:21 pm

It's very easy to destroy a game by trying to improve it.

The other thing is, right now what people want is Panzer Corps. So more a facelift than a new game. With some improvements in areas people found lacking.

The original Panzer General and Panzer Corps had not too many scenarios, but they were mostly superb and made for an interesting campaign and interesting scenarios.
The DLCs provided us with tons of great scenarios, but the scope was often rather tiny progress, basically the DLCs went into detail. That was great for the DLCs, the idea of the Grand Campaign was also great.

But I could imagine a Panzer Corps 2 without that problematic from 1939 to 1945 Campaign split into theaters of war and for various factions. This could include special campaigns like Merrill's Marauders, a submarine campaign, a naval campaign, paratrooper campaign etc..

Overstrength mechanics should be changed for sure, and the importance of experience and balancing between green and elite reinforcements perhaps as well.

Just my gut feeling: It's not the time right now, might take some more years till a new Panzer Corps very much in style of PzC and Panzer General would work on the market. Panzer Corps might be getting old, but it's not yet that old. And the tablet conversions are quite exciting and fresh.

I wonder if it would not be possible to make a MEDIEVAL ERA Panzer Corps? Would require some changes, and airpower would basically be gone. And that might make it an entirely new game already. But maybe worth trying. :)

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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by carramba66 » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:25 pm

Give heavy/grenadier infantry its real influence to the warfare = let them unload from their APC in the BEGINNING of every single turn.

1) I will load themi to the APCs
2) I will move them
3) I will end the turn
4) They will automatically unload
5) Start of the opponents move

+ increase their price, of course.

captainjack
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by captainjack » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:04 am

Longasc wrote:I wonder if it would not be possible to make a MEDIEVAL ERA Panzer Corps?
BiteNibbleChomp's Rise of The Mongols works quite well, but its focus is more on cavalry actions rather than knights men at arms etc. at least up to the point I reached.

I've been thinking about how Panzer Corps would work for Ancient period. If I still had access to my ancients figures I could have produced enough working icons from photos to do a couple of Roman/Celtic scenarios to test out the ideas. Fantasy General had some relevant weapons animations but I wasn't able to access the files when I tried.

You could keep soft and hard target types, based mostly on close ordered shielded foot being more or less tanks and treated as Hard with most others being soft. So a classic legionary unit would be some kind of Tank. Pikes and other long spears would be treated as AT units, so a Macedonian phalanx would be Hard AT unit. The degree of armour gets accommodated into the GD value so you could have heavily armoured open order or unshielded troops as soft targets with high GD.

Weapons ranges would probably work along the lines of javelins 1, sling 2, arrows 3 (early crossbows would probably be range 2 but good against hard targets and not so good against soft), field artillery (ballista and similar bolt throwers) 4, siege artillery (stone throwers) probably 3 to 6, though 6 would probably be more like trebuchet rather than older styles. Ballistae could possibly be switched to a sniper weapon with very high attack stats but RoF 10 or 20%, to weaken high value targets - some of the contemporary sources suggest that they were used to target leaders as they had decent range and accuracy.

You'd still have ammo for all units, but for many troops this reflects the need for periodic unit reorganisation and giving new orders and to recover from hand to hand combat rather than actual ammunition stocks. I haven't given much thought to fuel - probably relevant for very heavy units (cataphracts or legions with extra armour for fighting Dacians).

While you couldn't have air power as such, I was thinking that this might work quite well for some special units - disruptive units like scythed chariots, flaming pigs would be strategic bombers, while fast striking units such as light chariots, elite horse archer units, and saxon-era francisca-armed snatch squads (you'd probably have to watch the conquest series on shields to understand this reference) may be better as tac bombers. Some troops would provide a degree of protection to other units like AA does (missile troops against chariots), most light troops would have a reasonable passive attack, and some highly disciplined heavy troops would have decent defence values (eg allowing chariots through gaps between units which requires high degrees of training and cohesion).

Most of the unit variations would still be valid - mountain troops and engineers. There were plenty of heavy, light and medium troop types. There's also some potentially good switching options for troops armed with bow and spear, and eg switch from close formation (Hard target and slower) to more open formation (Soft target but faster). Formation switches could include for legionary units, normal formation to testudo which would be slower but with better defence and reduced attack or wedges for barbarian tribes which have higher attack and initiative but reduced defence (or alternatively you treat the ability to use wedged formation as a tac bomber). Much of this thinking could probably be adapted for medieval times, so there's plenty to work on.

demyansk
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by demyansk » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:28 am

Wow, all good suggestions. The best one in my opinion is variable AI placement. Couldn't that be done by code, maybe based on the date of the computer or time of day. I like the graphics and I would like to see the specials on the screen?

I have all the variations and love this game. I just need an assist in getting the mods to work. It seems last time I tried I messed up something

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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by maguro » Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:46 am

Switching the old Panzer General to 3D graphics killed the experience for me. I am in the 'keep it 2D' camp.
Also:
-Units which can destroy bridges (and perhaps AI which can adapt to blown bridges)
-Supply unit class - would be much more interesting than the current replenishment system.
-Commander unit class - possible increases defense/attack of adjacent units. More emphasis on command and logistics (previously mentioned supply units) would make the game even more fun.
-Strategic bombing causes economic damage (can you tell I used to play PG2?)
-Any AI improvements are always nice, in particular more intelligent attack if possible.
-More camo options would be fun; maybe camo can change automatically according to conditions, ex: frozen conditions show units wearing snow camo and North Africa etc. show units with desert camo.
-The scenario editor is great but sometimes hard to script, so any way to make scripting easier for the novice like me would be nice.
-Keep it easy to mod. I don't know what I'm doing but even I can mod PzC.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by goose_2 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:54 am

demyansk wrote:Wow, all good suggestions. The best one in my opinion is variable AI placement. Couldn't that be done by code, maybe based on the date of the computer or time of day. I like the graphics and I would like to see the specials on the screen?

I have all the variations and love this game. I just need an assist in getting the mods to work. It seems last time I tried I messed up something

100% agree with variable AI Placement being the best idea.

In my opinion this would be a game changer, for a game like this and increase the replayability 100 fold. (Not that the current game isn't replayable as it has been almost 2 years and still haven't played through all of the maps. That will probably take another 2 or 3 years. "oops")
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demyansk
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Re: Panzer Corps 2

Post by demyansk » Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:28 am

I play them a few times and I make sure I forget

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