Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

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Halder
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Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by Halder » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:53 pm

I am playing the Stalingrad Docks scenario (Axis side) and their seems to be more Soviet units than I have ever seen in any other scenario before. Has anyone ever counted how many Soviet units there are in this scenario? I would be interested to know.
I must have destroyed approximately 20 of them so far. Is this the scenario with the most units on the opposition or there are others with even more?
Thanks in advance
Halder

wargovichr
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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by wargovichr » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:27 pm

A critical factor is flying your strategic bombers out over the northern (safe) city and be refueled from and operate from the northern air bases. The strat bomber operates out over the Volga sinking the many troops, conscripts, SMG and Guards coming into the city that way. You may have to splurge and buy an extra long-range FW-190 which can hang out as escort over the river and/or upgrade one of your Me109s to Fw-190. Blessed be the naval attack of the He-177.
Use extra fighters in the eastern Volga to spot approaching ferries.
Much easier to sink them than to fight them in the city!
Stay away from shore promontories where sit Russian AA.

wargovichr
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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by wargovichr » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:31 pm

Oh...sink the damn river boats too. They are there to spot any unescorted bombers which they attack mercilessly from airfields on the eastern shore of the Volga.

proline
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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by proline » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:37 pm

You will face more opposition later I'm afraid. Beating Stalingrad Docks is straightforward if you arrive with a full army and some prestige in the bank. Here are some principles to keep in mind, there are other threads on this scenario you can search for.

1) Dug in SMG Infantry are fairly tough opponents, but they do have counters. High rate of fire artillery, such as the NBlwf family do an amazing job. Once suppressed, hit them with flame thrower tanks (Pz 2 Flamm) or infantry. DO NOT attack them in close terrain with armor

2) DO NOT attack Russian heavy tanks with your own tanks, which at that point in the war are medium tanks. Hit them with StuG anti-tank or better yet draw them into close terrain and take them out with infantry.

3) Many of the clear areas are blocked off by anti-tank with artillery behind. Ignore those spots and just go around through the city hexes. Take the artillery out from behind if necessary. Don't attack frontally

4) You control all the airfields west of the river. The AI has two airfields on the east defended by AA only. Two paratrooper units can seize those airfields within the first 10 turns denying the enemy any fuel or repairs for his aircraft.

5) Do what the instructions say and level bomb the crap out of the sea transports in the river. Make sure they die, or they can still unload their SMG infantry which will then take replacements and be back to full strength by the time you see them again.

6) Make your Panzer 3s into the N model which has good soft attack and close defense. Worse against armor but they can't beat Russian tanks anyways.

Don't lose hope. 1942 is a difficult year as you don't have heavy tanks but the Russians do. Next year you will have Tigers and Elefants to deal with them. Also the infantry get an upgrade in 1943 that helps them deal with armor.

TSPC37730
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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by TSPC37730 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:54 pm

I'd add these comments to the previous good tips.

Bombing the enemy infantry units as they come across the river is a help. You should bring at least 1-2 strategic bombers to go along with the 1 auxiliary bomber provided. Be sure they've been upgraded to Do-217's or He177's which have stronger naval attack values. This is also one situation where I'm a fan of using overstrength. A 12 or 13 strength bomber has a better chance of taking out a transport in one shot than a 10 strength unit. It's painful to watch a 1 or 2 strength transport slip away and reach Stalingrad where it will return to full strength. It's also wasteful to use 2 attacks to sink 1 transport when you can otherwise do it with 1. The extra 2-3 points of overstrength can make that difference. You can avoid expensive nicks from AA by staying at least 3 hexes away from the shore. Always be sure to escort your bombers.

If you still have the recon Rudel unit, he can be of solid value here. Upgrade him to a Me110G for a spotting range of 4. This will uncover a wide area of river & hopefully a number of potential targets. He won't be able to do anything against the transports themselves, but, he may have an opportunity to polish off a 1 or 2 strength fighter that you've damaged. Similarly, any fighters you might have with one of those much derided spotting heroes can also be quite useful in this scenario.

Choose your strategic bomber targets carefully. All transports have the same defense values. Assuming that enemy fighters or AA aren't a concern, be sure to attack transports carrying SMG or Guards units first. Save the conscripts for last.

As mentioned, you should upgrade at the very least one of your fighter units to a FW190. The FW190 has a higher fuel and ammo capacity (86/8) than the Me109G (62/6). This can burn off faster than you might realize, forcing you to cut short a mission at an inopportune time.

Shift the auxiliary Stukas you get to the west to help with your attack in the city. They aren't very effective against the transports, but, they can help against any advancing armor you encounter.

While you will encounter no shortage of SMG units, their one weakness is that they have a spotting range of 1. If you play carefully, you can often bait them into leaving an entrenched position and attacking a seemingly vulnerable target. If you've backed up that target unit with an unseen artillery unit, you can inflict considerable damage and often break up the attack. During your next turn, you can usually polish them off.

Artillery is a must in this scenario. I prefer the 105mm & 150mm units. While the Nebelwerfers hit harder, they also carry less ammo. They also have a shorter range, which can put them more at risk from an advancing unit or from counterbattery fire. Whatever your artillery preference, however, bring a lot of it. I prefer to use them in pairs, keeping them adjacent to each other where one can support the other in case of attack.

Pioneer units & FlammPanzer II's, both of which ignore entrenchment values, are also a must in this scenario. Be especially careful with the FlammPanzers however. The AI loves attacking these with tanks & from experience, I can assure you they will fare very poorly. Be sure to advance them only when they won't be left in a vulnerable position at the end of your turn.

As to your original question, I don't know exactly how many enemy units there are. I can say that I've played this scenario a number of times, but, I've never managed to kill all of the enemy units. If you've killed 20 though, you're just getting started.

Halder
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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by Halder » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:38 pm

Thanks all for your responses and advice.
I've been attacking the barges crossing the river, but there does not seem to be an end to them. I have two He177A's and the Stuka's taking care of that. Do the Soviet troops eventually stop crossing or do they continue to send barges across consistently?
Proline's point number 2, I learned the hard way, lost a few tank units there, ouch.
And Wargovichr's point about sinking the river boats is very useful as I didn't know they had any function at all.

Question, If I take over the two airfields across the river, will the Soviet's be unable to produce fighters at all, or just not repair/refuel them?
Also, I have lost a few units, as they have surrendered to attacking Soviet forces, as I have the game set to "reform units" will I get surrendered troops back? I am thinking not, but I hope so.

Thanks again, fellow soldats.

Halder

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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by wargovichr » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:39 pm

Great comments.
The other winning main strategy is to concentrate your deployment and attack in the northern half of the map where your Fighters and Stukas have easy ability to refuel at the airfields there. You will concentrate your units -- infantry backed by artillery and your best armor on clear spaces ready to fend off Russian armored counter-attacks or to stage your own attacks.
I "one-space" the airfield auxiliary 88 millimeter AA and anti-tank guns towards the upper center part of the map where you can back them with artillery and can contribute nicely to fending off sudden Russian armored counter-attacks. Concentration. Firepower.
I wouldn't use any weak core recon units here -- use your spotting heroes on your panzers and infantry. The Rudel recon unit (spots AA and Russian armored packs!) is a good idea -- double escorted (!). Oops, did I accidentally hit the cheat code for one extra core unit?
So start off in the northwest and central (only) and move to the center and east of the map towards the coast and then move south en masse to critical objectives. Forget about most of the bottom of the map.

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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by wargovichr » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:42 pm

Don't know, those Russian fighters can be scripted anywhere and fight till they run out of fuel if they don't have airfields. Destroyed units cannot be reformed until next battle.

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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by ycloon » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:12 am

Stalingrad Docks is a grind to be sure. I think the previous posters all gave pretty good advice. My own approach to the scenario is not to worry too much about the number of Soviet units destroyed because that is not a DV condition. Instead I focus on deploying the right mix of units to capture all victory hexes and the BA-64(r). For my play style, that means a force that is heavy in infantry and artillery, supported by a smaller force of tanks, tank destroyers, and mobile AA. I use only a small airforce of 2 (maybe 3) Fw190A and 2 level bombers (He 111, Ju 88A). The level bombers are not for ship killing but for suppressing entrenched Soviet units. I use the auxiliary Luftwaffe units to destroy as many troop transport as possible but once my northern force approaches the T-34 factory and has eliminated the AA guns, I use the auxiliary to provide general aerial support. I generally do not deploy too many air units in GC42 because of the numerous AA units in many scenarios - repairing damaged air units is quite expensive. Instead, I have developed a fondness for mobile AA units, particularly the SdKfz 7/1 with its 12 ROF. The only main issue I have with the 7/1 so far is its limited movement on frozen ground.

proline
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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by proline » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:44 am

Halder wrote:Question, If I take over the two airfields across the river, will the Soviet's be unable to produce fighters at all, or just not repair/refuel them?
The AI gets fighters periodically through the scenario whether it has an airfield left or not. If you have a large number of fighters and can easily kill all the enemy aircraft, then I suppose taking the airfields matters little. However, I use it as a way of deploying fewer fighters. Whereas normally enemy fighters must be killed or they will go get replacements, when the AI lacks an airfield you can let the ones with 3 hit points left go while you focus on weakening other aircraft. Then when all the AI's aircraft are weakened, go around and kill them. Keeps your fighters busy, rather than deploying so many they quickly kill all the opponents and end up sitting around doing little. Basically a more efficient way of using my deployment spots. Keep in mind I fly the paratroopers back to the main battle once the airfields are taken. Also, the map is huge, so the lack of fuel hampers the AI quite a bit more than on some maps. Finally, those airfields are great for supporting your anti-shipping aircraft.

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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by TSPC37730 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:26 pm

Halder wrote:Also, I have lost a few units, as they have surrendered to attacking Soviet forces, as I have the game set to "reform units" will I get surrendered troops back? I am thinking not, but I hope so.
If you're playing with the reform units option on, at the start of your next scenario, the unit will appear in your unit list with a strength of zero. It won't matter whether your unit surrendered or was completely destroyed. You can buy it back by paying the full prestige replacement cost if you want, but, it will start with zero experience. At this point in the campaign, this is a considerable handicap. It's probably best to only reform units which have good heroes.

turn4441
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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by turn4441 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:31 pm

Well, 20 kills is a nice start. My records show 127 enemy units destroyed during the Stalingrad Docks mission. That was my high to that point, but it was easily passed by the 161 destroyed in Olkhovatka which is my high water mark with the last two battles of GC '43 yet to go. Hopefully, it won't get too much worse in '44 and '45. My progress in the game has slowed considerably due to the 50+ unit, 20+ turn, and large number of Russian opponents scenarios. Good luck.

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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by turn4441 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:50 pm

The loss of experience for reformed units is a severe handicap. However, they do at least keep their hero bonuses when they reform which is the one reason it's better than buying a new unit. Of course, since the enemy's units don't weaken and get a set amount of experience in subsequent scenarios no matter how many you destroy (except conscripts which typically have no experience), you can always equalize it by using the cheat code to give your reformed units some experience if you so desire.

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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by hugh2711 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:42 pm

(As mostly said in the previous comments)
I actually find stalingrad docks quite easy IFF:
1) you dont go for a DV, from a prestige point of view I dont think it is worth it.
2) Use the now redundant non-upgraded strudel for spotting over the river.
3) you should have a (farmed by now, 4 star and heroed) he117a which kills a transport in one go; prioritise smg followed by guards for complete destruction in transport on the river. I also have another strat bomber doing the same as well but sometimes it requires one of the free stukas to kill it off after using that one. Use stukas for when it gets near the shore. They are much easier to deal with on the river and if you destroy ALL the non-conscript transports the scenario is alot easier. you also have the free strat bomber as well.
4) you should have farmed quite alot of heroed/experienced artilliary by now. Dont advance without double arty cover for every piece and when attacking make sure the piece you are attacking is fully supressed. Deducters youtube video is very good to watch.
5) you should have farmed some heroed and experienced SE tanks by now which you can use in the NON-Urban areas only to take out enemy tanks, dont use them in the town hexes.
6) your strongest fighter should be over the river providing cover for the he117, you should have one decent fighter at opposite ends to take each take out (most of) the one fighter that are at set positions at the beginning. They can be finished off with the two Bf110g's you should have by now: one from spoils of war (mine is usually 4 star by now and has another hero on top of the A+1 i+6 it had to start) and one the upgraded strudel (awesome). remember to kill them off rather than let them recover, dont expose yourself if you are not going to kill them off completely. both fighters and ground units.

GiveWarAchance
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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by GiveWarAchance » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:01 am

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Last edited by GiveWarAchance on Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GiveWarAchance
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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by GiveWarAchance » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:05 am

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milliethedog
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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by milliethedog » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:31 am

Hi guts,
If you think that Stalingrad has a lot of Russians to beat play "Red Storm" the Russian attack on Berlin in the Fantastic GTPG Grand Campaign. To get a DV you have to destroy 200 Russian units|

Martin

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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by Elkarlo » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:44 am

I tired to go across the field. Was really hard I stalled out hard. I also didn't realize how bad the 87s are at attacking the transports. Which let a lot across, damaged but when they reached my likes they were at full strength.
I might play it again and just rush across the north and let my panzers loose on the open center. Let the Italians slowly March forward in the center while I roll up the north.

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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!

Post by hugh2711 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:56 pm

I have a thorough analysis and replay of stalingrad docks in this thread here; viewtopic.php?f=145&t=82744
It additionally has a downloadable save of an MV at turn 7 if you would like to try for a full DV in the remaining turns.

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