Defensive Artillery

[goose_2]

I have a question about the best defensive artillery.

I am talking about the the StuG 3B / StuH 42 / and the Brummbar

Which do you consider the best. I used to not use any of them, because of their att range 1, but have seen how awesome they can be in playing the game at stopping attacks and even placing at the front to resist damage from the enemy.

I love using the StuG3B, based on it's low cost, high defense, high ROF, but I have been considering other factors, and would love to hear others thoughts.

I like the idea of the switchable aspect of the StuH 42 but what is it's ROF. Do you find it an effective unit compared to the StuG3B, and why?

The Brummbar is super tough, but the thing that bothers me is it's low ROF. .8 is pretty bad, but what do you guys think.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[JaM2013]

i think the best one is the one with most ammo.. you need all the ammo you can get, when you face Russians at the end of GC.. which is why i usually end up using Stugs or Wespe instead of Hummels.

[Buffalohump]

I have a question about the best defensive artillery.

I am talking about the the StuG 3B / StuH 42 / and the Brummbar

Which do you consider the best. I used to not use any of them, because of their att range 1, but have seen how awesome they can be in playing the game at stopping attacks and even placing at the front to resist damage from the enemy.

I love using the StuG3B, based on it's low cost, high defense, high ROF, but I have been considering other factors, and would love to hear others thoughts.

I like the idea of the switchable aspect of the StuH 42 but what is it's ROF. Do you find it an effective unit compared to the StuG3B, and why?

The Brummbar is super tough, but the thing that bothers me is it's low ROF. .8 is pretty bad, but what do you guys think.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I personally prefer the StuG IIIB and later the StuH 42 especially if I get a range hero. I currently have 2 StuG III's, both with range heros (any artillery that gains a range hero I upgrade to StuG's). Have you considered the StuG IV? It is another of my favorite units. To answer your question about the rates of fire, the StuH is normal and the StuG III and IV are at 110%. Also do not forget about the bonus(+5) you receive when attacking fortifications with the StuG and StuH.

[ycloon]

Here's the ROF from the equipment file:
StuG IIIB: 11
StuH 42: 10 [the default setting for artillery, represented with a blank in the ROF column]
Brummbar: 8

The StuG IIIB is indeed an excellent self-propelled artillery piece for defensive fire support, especially in 40 and 41 when the panzers and PzJg IB are fairly squishy. I do not like the StuH 42 because of the reduced ammo, HA (StuG IIIB HA = 8 vs StuH 42 HA = 6), and ROF. On the upside, the StuH 42 is switchable and has higher GD and AD. These advantageous are not compelling for me given the way I build my core. By the time StuH 42 becomes available, my StuG IIIB's are already 4-star units and thus their experience related defense bonuses help to toughen them up. The experience related bonuses are sufficient at least in 1942 because StuG IIIB's are support units and are not deployed in the frontline (barring emergencies).

The StuH 42's switch ability is unattractive because its anti-tank stats are crap. In anti-tank mode, StuH 42 has INI=4, SA=10, HA=5. Even at 4-star, the HA is 13 only. Compare this to a 4-star StuG IIIF with HA = 21. Even a 4-star SU-122 is better with HA = 18. StuH 42's INI of 4 is also quite bad. To be fair, the SU-122's INI of 1 is even worse, but given its 3 range, it's a no brainer to use the SU-122 as a mobile artillery unit and forget about an active anti-tank role. There is a subtler, but equally important reason for down playing the StuH 42's switch ability: experience. Remember that 1942 is the year with 2 (3 if you choose Stalingrad Ruins path) major urban warfare scenarios in which AFVs have a smaller role to play (except specialty vehicles like the flammpanzer). Thus, there are fewer opportunities for panzers and panzerjaegers to gain experience. I would rather not put the tank-killing experience in the StuH 42 because it will probably be damaged in the process, necessitating costly repairs (i.e., tank destroyer penalties) and the experience gained could be better spent leveling up panzers and dedicated panzerjaegers in preparation for 1943..

The Brummbar is a reasonable upgrade for the StuG IIIB by1943. The improvements in SA, HA, GD, and AD more than make up for the lower ROF and ammo in 1943. The extra fuel is a nice bonus. I place a lot of weight on HA because I want my self-propelled artillery to provide fire suppression against well-armored Soviet tanks that are attacking my tanks and tank destroyers. And if the Brummbar is caught unprotected by panzers/panzerjaegers, the 16 GD is very handy, especially after bonuses. To make up for the lower ROF, I typically invest max overstrength in my Brummbars. A 14-strength Brummbar has ROF of 11 vs. the base ROF of 8. The downside is the prestige cost and bumping up against the soft cap.

[Buffalohump]

To complete answering your question. My favorite of the units mentioned is the StuH 42. I prefer its increased armor, its switch ability, its increased soft attack value, and its normal rate of fire. When used in the direct fire mode it is best used against soft targets(other than dug in infantry). I also like to use the StuG IV in artillery mode to quickly(relatively speaking) gain experience for an antitank unit. I am currently at Leningrad 41 with my Field Marshal play through and have 2 fully equipped Kampfgruppen, KG Kerscher and KG Rondorf, each with 1 recon, 1 tank, 1 antitank, 1 artillery, and 1 infantry unit. The artillery and antitank units will eventually be StuH 42 and StuG IV respectively.

[captainjack]

For me, defensive artillery is Stug3B then the Brummbar because of the ammo, but if I had two or three Stug3b I'd probably convert one to the StuH for the extra hitting power. With a range hero I'd probably still stay the same, because I'd want enough ammo to defend and attack, and then I'd get Stug IV when available for the 2 range artillery.

[ycloon]

Yes, the StuH 42's high SA is pretty good. I really wanted to upgrade my StuG IIIB's to StuH 42, but the StuH 42's stats are not a good fit for my current corps and play style. I have enough alternatives to suppressing soft targets (10.5cm leFH, K18, Wufrahmen, strategic bombers) and don't really need one more unit with high SA.

I do like the StuG IV as well, but it's not available as an artillery unit for upgrades. The StuG IV is part of the StuG III anti-tank family in the game's equipment file. I would be inclined to upgrade an SU-122 with a range hero to a StuG IV.

[hugh2711]

I tend not to use brumbar's as I find them just not very effective. for defense For late gc artiliary I have su122's which i like because of thier high movement. Sig which are upgraded from sturmpanzers. I keep the stug 3b as its very cheap and All of these are heroed up and experienced and can take a bit of punishment. I also have some 17 inch towed arty but I dont put them in dangerous spots. By late gc I usually have a few Range + 1 units in the 17 inch and the Sig's. For offense I use alot of wurfrahmen but tend not to put them in harms way i.e. static defensive positions. I usually have a few Range + 1 by this time (in fact at the moment I have a range + 2 wurfrahmen which is pretty incredible!). I do not however overstrength them as its too expensive because of the softcap but if they are heroed and specially with extra range they do the job quite well. I do also have a heroed 5 star he117 which I basically use as arty (specially on partisans behind the lines). I tend not to use stu42 as it does not seem to be as powerful as the stug3b (perhaps the rate of fire is much lower?) and I rareley do direct attack with stugs as they usually get trashed the AI'a next move when there are alot of enemy units on the scenario..

[hurly]

I have a question about the best defensive artillery.

I am talking about the the StuG 3B / StuH 42 / and the Brummbar

I don't think anyone of these 3 is the best

This is a question somehow which BF 109 or Panzer 3 is the the best.

Each has its timeline and each one has its advantages

And each one excels in certain scenarios or vice versa does not do well, so it comes down to the impression staying with you

But don't ask me which these scenarios or tasks are exactly

The Stug3 is a very nice and cheap Unit early unit on which gains experience very quickly and can stand up a bit vs enemy tanks a bit. Still this inability to attack from the second row is a bit nagging sometimes especially int times of fast Moving Blitzkrieg tactics. (When I get a Range Hero i usually convert it to other Arty so the use of this feature eludes me somehow, but I want a few artys with range 4 to soften up fortifications with artillery backups and I really like a Range Hero on a Wurfrahmen so you get the pattern what I do with my Range Heroes. Part of the reason is a cheap green Stug levels up quickly again and serves its purpose as mobile backup link for my forward frontline right away. But I don't think the Stug cuts it anymore, by the time the tide of the war changes

I have an indifferent view on the StuH, but by the time it becomes available, the better Armour comes in handy and I recognize it as immediate improvement on the Stug. You can also be a bit more aggressive with it as it works quite well on its own. Problem with my style I often get too optimistic with it and run the Unit into serious trouble.
Also i feel it does not level up as quickly but that can be the tougher and numerous oppsoition it faces so it will get hit more often. I get very good results with it for a short time span (Stalingrad saga) especially vs infantry but then in 43 with the mass tank battles this effectiveness quickly goes away. So I upgrade it into a Brummbär asap

The Brummbär ist the end of the line for this Unit Family and I keep 1 or 2 around as it is a great link for a frontline and can take some beating. But at the time its main purpose is that it has more ammo than all the Wurfrahmen and even the heavy towed arty so I keep it around for safety reasons and a valuable backstop vs these mass rushes of the enemy. But I don't want to hide the impression that its offensive power is not really much to talk about the deeper you go into the war. And I want to add and it's probably a very subjective impression, I feel the Brummbär (or its predecessors) get targeted more and more especially by the soviets. Which is in a way a given as they come with so many units, but I feel the "defensive" Arty family goes up in the list of enemy Target rankings.

Bottom Line
all 3 are very solid and cheap Units to acquire and serve you well but not exceptionally well. When used correctly I don't think there are Units especially not Ground Units that fire more shots against the enemy (although most of them come in defensive support mode, quite often these units use their moves just to reload again and have all ammo used by the next turn already)

Of course this all depends a bit on personal playing style, so it is not unlikely that someone likes a variant better or the whole bunch of them not at all.

Which brings us to goose and his particular playing style
The man goes through entrenchments and fortications with ease with his swarming all out style that forces surrenders by the dozen. I'm not quite sure the Stug to Brummbär Family serves him as well as others as basically the one more round fired on offense is missing. Unless you expose the StuG and Co to the First Line of Combat. Which may work out or may not, I'm really not sure here and if only for the reason I have figured out this Hell Bent Front line Rushes goose does so well and seemingly all the time.

So what can I say
Personally I'm on good terms with all 3 Stug Units and I like the StuG IV from the AT Faction even better, but this is just me and may change with individual playing style a bit.

Bottom Line is you can't really go wrong with any Stug but don't expect an impressive one shot performance some other units can offer. It's more like water that continously erodes any resistance all the time. The units are nice to have not sure if there are not better alternatives sometimes, but you don't have to field all your Units all the Time

[JaM2013]

personally, i think all StuGs should be switchable between antitank and artillery role, as these vehicles were assigned to artillery units and vehicles itself carried both direct and indirect sights (even StuG-IIIG with long 75mm gun still had them). Sturmgeschutz were typically assigned to infantry regiments, while Sturmpanzers and similar (usually on PzI or PzII chasis) were assigned to tank units..

so technically, Sturmgeshutz units could stay in a same upgrade path, and player would be able to upgrade its Bs into F and Gs as war continues, as these would be assigned to the same infantry divisions.

Oh, and regarding StuH-42 it also used HEAT round against tanks, so if StuGIIIB has HA 8, then StuH-42 should definitely get higher HA as well.. 105mm HEAT would be a lot more effective than 75mm

[goose_2]

Thanks Guys,

This has helped tremendously, as I will am approaching Stalingrad soon in my Manstein playthrough. (Yeah I now I am way behind on my AAR's, I am trying. )

Anyway I have like 3 17cm artys with Defensive heroes, and 1 StuG3B with a +2 Defensive hero and +1 Range StuG3B that is super awesome. I have a bunch of other artillery's, but for this post I am talking about these 5, as they will all be StuG3B's for more defensive capability that can help prevent the SMG onslaught that comes in Stalingrad. Those StuG3B's are beasts and I foresee them to be beasts for a good long time.

The communities thoughts helped solidify that, so thanks!

[goose_2]

what is the rof for 30cm Nblwf? As I am extremely happy with the performance of my 21 cm which has rof of 100%, so if ROF for 30cm nblwf is less I am not sure the upgrade is worthwhile?

[Moniker]

30cm Nebelwefer ROF is 100%.

[captainjack]

All the rockets are 100% ROF which can make the nebelwerfers very good for soft target suppression, especially if overstrengthed. I always worry about ammo in my artillery, especially for defence, so I tend to use Stug 3 (which is mobile and has a lot of ammo) to back up troops and use guns (typically 105 until about late 43 then 170mm) or range hero nebelwerfers to support attacks. Of course guns and whatever are also good for defensive work but they have to get there and have ammo to be useful.