DLC Campaign 45 East rant

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joe6778
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DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by joe6778 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:17 pm

OK, it's the end of the war and the Germans lost. I get it. But throw the manual and the tips and tricks out the window; there's no strategy here; it's just a slaughter. The Soviets have literally dozens of top units to my poor core of 45. These are 4 and 5 exp units, too, some of which I've had since 39.

Terrain is a joke: Soviet armor can attack from a river against entrenched infantry units in city hexes and do 4 or 5 damage. Armor can attack in close city terrain and destroy my infantry with little or no damage to themselves, yet when I attack Soviet armor in cities, most times the Soviet armor benefits from the rugged defense benefit, or I just can't do enough damage.

I've tried to figure out a proper defense here, but it's turn five and I've already lost all my auxiliary units and eight of my core. I have less than 12000 prestige (I'm playing on colonel difficulty.) The last airfield is going to be overrun and I have fewer than 6 VP hexes.

I don't see the point in continuing. What a letdown after investing hundreds of hours playing the Grand Campaign.

(I have never seen any YouTube videos of the 45 East scenarios, and I can certainly see why.)

There are so many aspects to this game that I really like, and the DLC Grand Campaign has entertained me for months, but the only way I can end the campaign is by the cheat code. :cry:

**end of rant**

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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by goose_2 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:44 pm

I have played the 45 Campaign on Field Marshall level and can empathize with your struggle, it is something I am extremely fearful on my Manstein playthrough.

But it is doable, you need to use infantry backed up with artillery and this should hold back any assault off river hexes, especially using multiple experienced artillery, but I even found supplementing 60 cost Volkstruum with 10.5cm arty's helps fill in gaps nicely in various locations. I did not save any of my 45 playthroughs as I did not know how to post them, and only post now thanks to my buddy hurly. :oops:

I am trying to mentally prepare for 43 on Manstein so I cannot even begin to wrap my mind around a 45 run, I am just thankful that I have a strong army built up at this point with a larger amount, slightly, than my Field Marshall run... ;)

Keep the Faith, and try again, maybe read my AAR on it and see what set up I used to pull off many of the missions in 45
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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by joe6778 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:27 pm

I had highly experienced infantry and heavy tank/anti-tank units defending river crossings backed by artillery, and by turn five the Soviets had broken through. And this is on colonel difficulty.

Once I started losing my experienced core units, I was reinforcing with 43 infantry in the cities, but they did nothing. Like I said, the terrain effects (or lack thereof) are laughable. I literally sit back while the computer plays and laugh at the number of Soviet units and how easily they damage and destroy my units.

I'm no newbie to the game and I have reached this scenario after hours and hours of playing the Grand Campaign from 39, but this scenario seems impossible to even get a MV.

When I read of players winning on the higher difficulties, I really find it hard to believe. I have high experience units, the best units, I know how to attack and defend, I read the tips and tricks and the manual, I regularly visit the PzK forums, yet I can't even win on colonel.

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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by goose_2 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:16 pm

have you watched my playthroughs on Manstein level, not all decisive victorys like shawkhan2, but still doable at an insane level. That is just playing as is, so not sure where your tactics are failing specifically but maybe post your unsuccessful playthrough here and get some advice on how you could play it differently for greater success.

One thing I have learned from Night Phoenix's playthrough's on youtube is that backing away and giving up territory to let the enemy over extend themselves on their assaults helps a great deal at allowing your better defensible areas to take effect at stemming their advance and then allowing yourself enough time to retake territory lost...

I am just trying to help a fellow gamer and hope my replies are seen in that light.

Thanks for sharing your frustrations
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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by joe6778 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:36 pm

I appreciate your advice.

I do retreat back to better defensible positions, but with the insane number of Soviet units in this scenario, the locations I vacate are quickly filled by dozens of units, so I still have to fight off too many units- and when they breakthrough somewhere- my units are toast. Plus I have strength depletion and ammo problems.

Are your playthroughs on YouTube? How can I find them.

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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by goose_2 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:05 pm

My playthroughs are written up in the AAR section of this forum...The Field Marshall playthrough goes through Berlin 45 I did not finish as I wanted to try at Manstein level. Unfortunately they are just in text form but I spell out my day to day progress and detail starting positions and army composition. That was playing through it blind so not the cleanest and not all of it was with Decisive Victory's.

MY Manstein playthrough has downloadable content that most people can download and watch the replay at their leisure on their game.

I have watched shawkhan's that he has posted, and I will say he is using a mod from the normal equipment but his strategy seems more well thought out and executed than mine.

I am not the best player, just a skilled one.

Blessings on your endeavors
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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by joe6778 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:28 pm

Thanks, brother.
I searched all the AARs and could find no text or video playthroughs of the Berlin 45 scenario. Not even from the YouTube posters with videos for every other scenario up to 44. (No surprise. My guess is that most players had the same experience I had.)
The DLC Grand Campaign is so much fun for most of the scenarios because you're building up your force's experience, getting leaders, upgrading units, etc. There are a lot of decisions you have to make away from the battlefield.
Then you reach the 44-45 East Campaigns, and especially scenarios like Berlin 45, and strategy and tactics go out the window. It just becomes like a video game shooter where endless numbers of enemy units attack you and you have to outlast them. No fun at all. In fact I audibly groan as I watch the AI play.

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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by sn0wball » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:47 am

I also found it a bit tiring that nearly every scenario seemed to be the same. Always defending against these enormous masses of Soviet tanks. They should have thrown in a few side quests for variety. Also, the scenario design forces you - or forced me, that is - to go with an All-King-Tiger core. No lesser tank can survive the constant attacks by first line Soviet tanks.

Still, I found the scenarios beatable. I found the key for me was to concentrate forces. Usually, you don´t have to continually hold the objectives, but only claim them in the end. You can let the AI take them , if you are prepared to take them back. This works only by carefully exploiting the AIs weaknesses - it cannot employ its forces defensively once it has moved them. Also, you can count on the AI to run into every ambush you make. Checking AI detection range is vital. All this works only if you have an idea of what to come and when - I would not have been able to beat these scenarios on the first try.

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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by mulleto22 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:03 am

So, maybe you want to tryout a few things. I personally loved the experience of playing GC East on Manstein, even with soft cap on. But that required a lot of change on how I built my core compared to earlier playthroughs. Before, I used to have that all Tiger II core aswell - but it really is not necessary. I used much more Infantry and AT units on Manstein, Infantry even some without a transport. Tanks, I always kept older models in my core. Fighters, I had only one Me262 in 1945 and was acting very passive, employing lots of AA before killing off enemy planes. I did exploit some weaknesses of the AI though, especially the fact that he loves to auto attack when taking VHs. No cheats used.

Using a very mixed core from early on did two things: a) saves prestige on reinforcements and b) lets the soft cap kick in way later, so I built up more prestige along the way.

Also, I really planned my core deeply from early on. I often switched units according to heroes received. I loved my AA with +1 move => converted to 8.8, which is a tank killer all the way into 1942. +1 Range on Arty, I switch to StugIII - they aswell are great into 42. I know, it depends on playing style, but with a core composed like this I was able to go all MV on every scenario on Manstein.

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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by hugh2711 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:52 am

I agree that 45east is not as interesting as the rest due the 'shoot em up' number of soviet units however it is very doable if (I agree with the earlier comments) you give ground, i.e. lure them into crap positions. Dont always go for a DV and Have an ALL SE king tiger core that you can overstrength, that is very experienced and has lots of serious heroes. Have a serious experienced heroed up airforce. these things you have to plan/nurture right from the beginning. e.g i usually get my first SE tank in gc39, they become available at norway so at that point and thereafer i disband my infantry se units. by gc45east it usually has 3 heroes and 4 or 5 stars. I am careful with my airforce and dont usually lose any. by gc45 they usually have at least a couple of heroes and lots of experience. the two berlin threads are easier than they first appear - there is a useful thread on them with details.

The berlin and redux thread is:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 21&t=76173
Last edited by hugh2711 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by goose_2 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:50 pm

This is how I did Berlin from my playthrough on the AAR side on Field Marshall

Berlin 3rd Try as the 2nd try made 1 mistake which opened the door to them busting into where the Fuhrer Bunker is and start raping my units.
I am going with the same strategy I did in my 2nd try just bolstering the defenses on the island with the Fuhrer bunker to make sure I retain ownership.

Starting with 24250 but after upgrades, overstrength, replacements, and new purchases I have 8805. Yikes!
Upgraded Albert Kirscher to King Tiger and upgraded +1 Att Panther and +1 def KV-1C and my 1 star T-34/40 into FlammPanzer's just in case i need help clearing up their annoying infantry.
Bought 8 Volkssturm, 2 Bridge Engineer's, 5 10.5cm arty's in trucks.
I am holding back 5 units to deploy them where I see gaps need to be filled and where I see their assault forming.
I have interspersed all 4 of my ME-262's, and my SE Wilhelm Batz, including Otto Kittel, and Gerhard Butler, also brought my +6 att +2 Def Tac Bomber, Uber Rudel, and 3 Strat Bombers.

Soft Cap is at 69% based on bringing the following:
Ground forces:
Battlegroup on airfield Island: Grenadier, 3 15cm arty's, SE Maus.

Battlegroup on Island next to the airfield: 3 green arty's, BA siG 38t(m), 3 SE Tiger 2's, Pioniere, BA 88, +3 Att +3 Def King Tiger, JagdPanther, Bridge Engineer, Heinz Rondorf.

Battlegroup on Western Part of Fuhrer Bunker's Island: Albert Kirscher, 12.8cm AA, 2 green arty's, Bridge Engineer, 2 SE Tiger 2's, Bruno Sutkus.

Battlegroup on Eastern Part of the Fuhrer Bunker's Island: Green arty, 15cm spotting arty, Brumbar, green siG 38t(m), JagdTiger, Eric Litzke, Movement King Tiger.

Final Stand by the 2 Central airfields: 2 SE Tiger 2's, Freidrich Pein, Oleh Dir, and Movement Gerbisjager.

Day 1: ai CA: A whole bunch of attacks and a ton of city objectives taken and aux units destroyed.
Day 1 (69) Sunny:
Destroyed La-5, 4 SU-76's, Yak-3, IL-4, T-34/85, Conscript, BA-64, Pe-2.
Otto Kittel awarded Knights Cross with Oak leaves for 1300 kills.
Bought 4 10.5cm arty's with trucks and brought in my +3 Att King Tiger and bolstered my defenses on the Fuhrer Bunker island.

Day 2 ai CA: Seized 24 more objectives and destroyed a bunch more aux units. (do not try to defend these units, just try to back them away as quickly as possible to help bolster your defenses of the islands that are more easily defendable.
Day 2 Sunny (52):
Awarded Eric Hartmann.
Destroyed Yak-3, T-34/85, 2 T-34/43's, 2 BA-64's, Pe-2, La-5, 2 Reg Inf's, SU-85, Conscript, Katyusha.
JagdTiger awarded Iron Cross 1st Class for 400 kills.
Bought some reg reps for various units.

Day 3 ai CA: Enemy destroyed 2 aux AT's, and 2 aux Inf's, and seized 10 cities.
Day 3 Sunny: (54)
Destroyed T-34/43, Engineer's, IS-1, annother T-34/43, SMG, T-34/85, BA-64, IL-4, SU-122.
Heinz Reindorf awarded Knight's Cross with oak Leaves and Swords 1900 kills.
Bought some reg reps for various units.

Day 4 ai CA: Enemy destroyed an aux inf and seized a couple more cities and took some nicks on various units, but i am holding.
Day 4 Sunny (56)
Destroyed LA-5, 4 T-34/85's, 2 BA-64's, Reg Inf, Engineer's, 3 T-34/43's, IS-1, IL-10, La-7, Conscript's.
4th SE Tiger 2 awarded Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves and Sword for 1900 kills.

Day 5 ai CA: A bunch of attacks but the Rivers are holding nicely with well placed arty.
My Movement Gerbisjager is hurting as their Engineer's got a lucky hit on them leaving me with only 4 str and 0 ammo. but I think i can save them.
Day 5 Sunny (61)
Seized Berlin (21,19)
Destroyed BA-64, 4 IS-2's, IL-2 Sturmovich, 3 Engineer's, Guards, SU-85, 2 Conscript's, IS-1, T-34/43, and another SU-85.
Bought 4 elite replacements for Movement Gerbisjager and 1 overstrength for my +2 att arty.

Day 6 ai CA:
A bunch more attacks and many more damage to various units but no losses, as well as an attack versus Albert Kirscher that helped him earn his Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords for 1900 kills.
Day 6 Sunny (65)
Destroyed 3 Conscripts, 3 reg inf's, 3 SMG unit's, SU-76, Yak-3, T-34/85, IL-4, 3 T-34/43's, Guards, Engineer's.
Bought some reg reps for various units.

Day 7 ai CA:
Enemy destroyed aux inf and enemy is coming through in some areas near the Fuhrer bunker, but i am fairing far better than I have on my other playthough's. I am still getting mad seeing them inside the perimeter as they seized Berlin (25,15)
Day 7 Sunny (68)
Retook Berlin (25,15) and (18,17) I will hold this island.
Destroyed 2 Conscript's, 3 T-34/43's, IS-2, IS-1, SU-76, 2 Engineer's, 4 Reg Inf's, and SU-85.
5th SE Tiger 2 awarded Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves and Sword for 1900 kills.
Bought some varios reg reps for various units and 5 Elite for Movement Gerbisjager.

Day 8: ai CA;
Enemy hit my SE Tiger 2 in city hex but guarded by an artillery so kind of surprising as well as other attacks on various units.
Day 8 Sunny: (69)
Seized Berlin (22,10)
Destroyed 2 Engineer's, SU-122, 152mm arty, 2 Reg Inf's, Yak-7, Katyusha, 2 Conscript's.
+3 ATT _3 def King Tiger awarded Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords for 1900 kills.
Bought 1 Overstrength for +2 att arty and some reg replacements.

Day 9 ai CA:
A bunch more arty attacks.
Day 9 Sunny (70)
Destroyed IL-2 Sturmovich, 2 SU-85's, 3 Conscript's, 4 Engineer's, Reg Inf.
1st SE Tiger 2 awarded Golden Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords, and Diamonds. 3500 kills.
Bought some reg reps for various units.

Day 10 ai CA:
A bunch more attacks by what is left which is mostly infantry and increasingly annoying artillery, along with some vulnerable tanks hurt in cities
Day 10 Sunny (72)
Destroyed SU-122, Yak-9U, 2 Conscript's, 4 SMG's, IL-2M3, Guards.
Bought some reg reps for various units and 1 elite replacements for +2 Att arty.

Day 11 ai CA:
Stinking arty's and other minor nicks but assault is now just waning and I am now waiting for the 2nd wave.
Day 11 Sunny (73)
Starting to go on the assault. Seized Berlin (19,5) (21,6) (22,8) (23,11)
Destroyed Engineer's, SMG, 3 Reg Inf's, Katyusha, Guards, SU-122.
Bought some reg reps for various units.

Day 12 ai CA:
A lot more planes came out to damage me and some serious attacks especially in combination with those stinking artillery. The Biggest being my Grenadier reduced to 2 str as well as my JagdTiger reduced to 6 str.
Day 12 Sunny (79)
Seized Berlin (18,4) (24,8) (25,11) (23,18)
Destroyed 3 Reg Inf's, La-5, Yak-3, La-7, 152mm arty, 2 conscript's 2 SU-122's, Katyusha, Engineer's, and SMG.
Bought some reg reps for various units and 8 elite for Grenadier, I also left the Berlin Rail Station open so when they take it they will get thier butt's kicked trying to hit me. (This is a nice trick that i noticed happens whenever they take a key objective)

Day 13 ai CA:
Several Whithering attacks with the biggest being their guards hitting my Pioniere's for -5 each.
Day 13 Sunny (77)
Seized Berlin (16,4) (23,4) (26,7), (25,9) and (27,11) as well as retaking the Berlin Rail Station (10,7)
Destroyed IL-10, IL-4, 2 SMG unit's, 3 Conscript's, Reg Inf, Guards, Reg Inf, Engineer's.

Day 14 ai CA:
2 more bombers doing damage and a few minor attacks as I anticipate the onslaught that will be that 2nd wave. I have been trying to probe cautiously to see if I can trigger a response form the enemy as well as try and eliminate some of those annoying arty's.
Day 14 Sunny (80)
Seized Berlin (12,5) (24,20) (31,17)
Destroyed Yak-7, 2 Katyusha's, SMG unit, 152mm arty, 37mm AA, 2 Engineer's, and Reg Inf.
Green siG 38t(m) awarded Knight's Cross for 100 kills.
+3 Attack King Tiger awarded Knight's Cross for 800 kills.
Bought some reg reps for various units and 2 Elite Replacements for 5th SE Tiger 2 as well as for 7th SE Tiger 2, and 5 Elite for Pioniere.

Day 15 ai CA:
Here it comes!!!
The 2nd wave has come Several attacks with a myriad of units. Biggest being Heinz Rondorf hit by some Big Dog Tanks leaving me with 5 str.
I hope I am ready for this as I am saving at this point and may need to try a different strategy as i think I will try to hold some of my ground but retreat in other areas. (I did not need to reload, thank goodness.)
Day 15 Sunny (82)
Seized Berlin (30,11) (12,3) (24,24) (30,15) and seized airport (13,1)
Destroyed SU-85, 2 122mm arty's, Katyusha, Guards, SU-100, Ba-64, 152mm arty, and SMG unit.
Bought 4 elite for Albert Kirscher and JagdTiger.

Day 16 ai CA: Enemy destroyed aux AT, and green arty, and they retook Berlin (23,4) as well as berlin Rail Station (10,7)
Day 16 Sunny (88)
Destroyed 2 SU-100's, ISU-152, T-34/43, 2 SMG unit's.
Gerhard Barkhorn awarded 2nd Hero +3 att (99 Heroes)
Bought some reg reps for various units and 2 Elite for +2 Att arty.

Day 17 ai CA:
Enemy destroyed an aux inf and are inside my island next to my airfield with a bunch more attacks but no more losses just a ton of push and pain as they seized Berlin (20,11) and (30,13)
Day 17 Sunny (94)
Seized Berlin (22,24) and Berlin Rail Station (19,22)
Destroyed 4 T-34/85's, 3 Guards, 3 KV-85's, BA-64, 37mm AA.
Retreating in the Center.
Bought reg reps for various units and 1 elite for +3 Att King Tiger, 2 Elite for Brumbar, 4 Elite for Eric Litzke, 6 Elite for Heinz Rondorf, 3 elite for Movement Gerbisjager as well as 2 elite for Bruno Sutkus.

Day 18 ai CA: Enemy seized Berlin (25,11) (25,9) (21,6) and is wreaking destruction and pressing everywhere as they destroyed my +2 att arty that I have been trying to Salvage because it got to it after it destroyed the aux AT that was guarding it. (98 heroes)
I am confident that i am going to win this unless they have a 3rd wave, but my goodness this is tough as they also seizede Berlin (25,9) (21,6) and (25,11)
Day 18 Sunny (91)
Took Berlin (25,11) (32,11) (30,11) (8,4)
Destroyed T-34/85, 3 Katyusha's, Reg Inf, 2 KV-85's, 2 ISU-122's, La-7, La-5, IS-2, T-34/43, SU-100, and IL-2 Sturmovich.
Bought reg reps for various units. 2 Elite for Pioniere and brought out 2 more Volkssturm to fill in some gaps.

Day 19 ai CA: Enemy destroyed Bridge Engineer, aux inf, and core Volkssturm, but nothing new seized.
Day 19 Sunny (95)
Seized Airfield (34,13)
Destroyed KV-85, Katyusha, 3 SMG unit's, IS-2, 85mm AA, Reg Inf, 2 Guards, 152mm arty, IL-4.
Bought some reg reps for various units as well as 5 elite for Bruno Sutkus, Freidrich Pein, 5th SE Tiger 2, and Somua King Tiger, as well as 2 elite for Albert Kirscher.

Day 20 ai CA:
Green arty destroyed and like 6 or 7 more cities seized but their numbers are dwindling again.
Day 20 Sunny (90)
Reseized Berlin Rail Station (19,22) (10,7) (35,18) as well as airfield in (36,12)
Destroyed 4 Reg Inf's 2 SMG's, 2 Conscript's, Yak-3, ISU-152, Engineer's, KV-85.
Heinz Rondorf awarded +3 att hero (99 heroes) bought reg reps for various units.

Day 21 ai CA:
A few whithering attacks but this map is all but mine now unless there is a 3rd wave then I might have to cry.
Day 21 Sunny (90)
Reseized Berlin (28,10) (30,9) (18,7) (28,22) (32,15) (34,17) (25,9) (20,24)
Destroyed 2 Guards, T-34/85, Katyusha, Guards, ISU-152, ISU-122, SMG unit.
Really starting to take ground as almost everything is gone, but not yet.

Day 22 ai CA: Enemy destroyed aux AT and minor attacks.
Day 22 Sunny (91)
Took all 3 airfields in the far East, as well as Berlin (26,24) (34,22) (16,23) (5,10) (7,7) (30,13) (18,20)
Destroyed ISU-152, T-34/85, 2 Guards, and SMG unit.

Day 23 - Day 30 ai CA: Only a few minor attacks and one last hurrah for a few planes in Day 24 but they are out of steam and i bleed out the rest of the 32 rounds taking over the rest of the ground and destroying the remains of the rest of their withering army. to maximize prestige and Hopefully to get that elusive 100th hero. I did it on my 1st try but very soon after wards lost more units than was acceptable.

So all that remains is Berlin Redux and Epilogue.

Starting Berlin Redux with 28551.

Final assessment of Berlin.
This is an extremely difficult battle and one where you cannot make even 1 mistake a very worthy end to a great game.
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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by joe6778 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:38 pm

I'm going to have to study this when I have a little more time, but questions I have right off the bat:

How can you defend cities with armor since they get killed by infantry due to their close defense rating in city hexes?
I can't make out some of your units when they're identified only by leader names.
How can you have so many kills when 8 of your units are the weakest infantry (Volkssturm)? or are they just cannon fodder? I had strong, experienced grenadiers and I didn't have as much success in cities. Like I said, by turn 5 I had lost more than 7 core units.

My air defenses are able to handle the Soviet air forces pretty well. It was the dozens(!) of ground forces which I couldn't hold off. It seemed like every hex on the map had a Soviet unit on it. I decided to surrender to see the forces I was up against when I decided to cheat and end the scenario. I don't know if it's worth it to try to beat this scenario legitimately. It's certainly no fun.

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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by proline » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:48 pm

joe6778 wrote:I had highly experienced infantry and heavy tank/anti-tank units defending river crossings backed by artillery, and by turn five the Soviets had broken through. And this is on colonel difficulty.
Search this forum for one of the many threads about how to defend effectively. I'll give you a bit of advice here.

It is tempting to line your defenders up on one side of the river and shoot at the enemy as they cross, thus getting the bonus for attacking a river unit. The problem with this is two-fold. First, when you do that, the enemy units will retreat to the far side and take replacements, you can't go kill them because you would have to cross the river yourself. Getting kills, not just doing damage, is important. Second, when you are lined up against a river the enemy can place their artillery one, or even two, hexes behind the river and shoot at you with impunity. It takes the dumb AI several turns to get their artillery optimally set up, but when they do it hurts.

Try this instead. Line up your units one hex back from the river. When they cross the river and get to you they will likely be unsupported by artillery and completely boxed in with another row of units behind them. Weakened units, if they can retreat at all, will retreat only the river where you can advance and kill them. When you attack, you will be able to make money by getting surrenders. The AI artillery won't be able to get you until it is right behind the river, and the AI will probably advance their artillery into the river where you can demolish it.

Other errors you may be making include trying to defend too long at one place, spreading your forces too thin (most scenarios call for 2-3 big battle groups, even if it looks like you need to cover a large front you don't, the enemy will come to you), not using any AT (the elephant is really good), not using AA, exceeding the supply cap, etc. A slow fighting retreat, say one hex every two turns, does wonders to prevent the enemy from getting their artillery support set up. Remember that when you retreat, only one enemy can advance and attack you per turn. When you are stationary two units can attack from each hex. That's a lot more damage.

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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by joe6778 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:20 pm

Good advice about river defenses. Thanks.

All the other possible errors you say I might be doing I'm not; I had 4 core AA units, a couple of Elefants, and a few Jadgtigers, and Jadgpanthers. I also use fighting retreats and I pull back to better positions and let the enemy come to me. And they keep coming and coming and coming...

Also, I've learned in another thread that I should only overstrength artillery, air units, and SE units to avoid soft cap penalties.

Like I said, I've been playing games in the Panzer General/Panzer Korps series for years, and I've learned a lot of strategy and tactics. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of strategy and tactics you can employ when you're outnumbered 5 or 6 to 1.

proline
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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by proline » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:47 pm

joe6778 wrote:All the other possible errors you say I might be doing I'm not; I had 4 core AA units, a couple of Elefants, and a few Jadgtigers, and Jadgpanthers. I also use fighting retreats and I pull back to better positions and let the enemy come to me. And they keep coming and coming and coming...

Like I said, I've been playing games in the Panzer General/Panzer Korps series for years, and I've learned a lot of strategy and tactics. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of strategy and tactics you can employ when you're outnumbered 5 or 6 to 1.
Rest assured that on colonel difficulty it is possible to win, and win easily, in the '45 DLC. It just requires the right strategy and tactics. You actually can over-strength all units to 11 if done before the scenario starts. Although the 11th point costs a premium, the premium is exactly the same as the discount you get between scenarios, meaning the 11th point prior to the scenario costs the same as 1 point of elite replacements during the scenario.

Also, there is no need for Jadgpanthers or Jadgtigers. Elephants do the same damage as Jadgpanthers (24) and more than Jadgtigers (21). More critically, they have a higher defense than the panthers- 22 vs. 19 and defense is by far the most important stat in PzC. Furthermore, they are available years earlier, so if you upgrade to Elephants as soon as they come out you have no reason to spend a ton of money on Jadgpanthers or Jadgtigers. The only advantage of the Jadgpanthers is its speed, and that's no advantage at all. Speed just encourages you to move it too far from the rest of your battle group and get it killed. Now the Jagdtiger does have a lot of defense so it can be effective at plugging up lanes of attack, but in practice the cost isn't worth it, and it lacks the damage output to do anything more than tickle IS-1 and IS-2 tanks.

By similar logic, do not use the Panther tanks. Their speed is sexy but the lower defense compared to the tiger makes them a non-starter.

Here's another tip- SE units don't count against the cap, so sell off any SE infantry until you get tanks. By '45 I have 8 SE Tiger 2s and I don't deploy any other tanks, thus keeping my cap nice and low.

joe6778
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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by joe6778 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:11 pm

On colonel difficulty I was able to progress to the Berlin 45 scenario, but this is where I got stuck.

I had 7 Tiger2s, 4 JadgTigers, 1 Jadgpanther, 2 Maus, 2 Panthers, 9 core Infantry, 6AA, and 10 Artillery, in addition to my air units, and still I was getting my ass kicked.

I learned my lesson about the Panthers on the east front. How about on the west front?
Good advice about selling off SE infantry. How about SE Panthers or SE medium tanks?
Are Elefants better than Tiger2s against the Soviet heavy tanks?

Somehow, not using Panther tanks seems ahistorical.

proline
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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by proline » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:36 am

joe6778 wrote:On colonel difficulty I was able to progress to the Berlin 45 scenario, but this is where I got stuck.

I had 7 Tiger2s, 4 JadgTigers, 1 Jadgpanther, 2 Maus, 2 Panthers, 9 core Infantry, 6AA, and 10 Artillery, in addition to my air units, and still I was getting my ass kicked.
That's not too different from what I have in 45, maybe a couple less AA and a couple more armor and infantry. Should be doable. Berlin is a very hard scenario that requires particular strategies. What I've said previously about giving ground doesn't work, as the enemy will eventually surround and immobilize you, until you finally mow them all down. Maybe consult a thread about that specific scenario.
joe6778 wrote:I learned my lesson about the Panthers on the east front. How about on the west front?
Haven't played the west recently. Panthers would survive better as the western allies lack good heavy tanks, but I suspect the poor defense would still make them more costly to operate than the tiger. It sucks that panthers suck, but they do and you have to accept that.
joe6778 wrote:Good advice about selling off SE infantry. How about SE Panthers or SE medium tanks?
Keep the tanks, get XP, and upgrade as required. I keep SE panthers until the Tiger 2 is available.
joe6778 wrote:Are Elefants better than Tiger2s against the Soviet heavy tanks?
No, but they are pretty close and cost 600 vs 990. Cost effectiveness is important, especially with the prestige soft cap, and each non-SE Tiger 2 will be a major cap hit. You also save a lot on repairs.

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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by sn0wball » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:23 pm

As far as I remember, you can deploy units bought during the game all over the map, even around victory hexes already captured. As soon as you have slots open - which happens quite soon, as you have noticed, you can use this for excellent diversion. Drop a few recons behind the enemy lines to make the AI divide its forces. This may be a bug or not, but I thought of it as a revenge for all those scenarios during which the AI spawned units out of thin air. Also, this is Berlin, after all.

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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by joe6778 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:27 pm

I know this is Berlin and it's the end of the war, but regardless of how well you've played up until this point (conquering Poland, Norway, the Low Countries, France, even taking Moscow) it has no effect on later campaigns/scenarios. You still wind up here.

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Re: DLC Campaign 45 East rant

Post by huckc » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:59 pm

I've been meaning to do a video AAR of the Berlin scenarios (Field Marshall). But the first one for me was mainly a straightforward static defense with tanks against rivers and infantry adjacent to open city hexes, good enough for a DV with a couple turns to spare. I actually misunderstood the DV requirements and thought all hexes had to be taken, not just objectives :lol:

Northwest turn 2 start:
https://imgur.com/POHMB5w

Southeast turn 2 start:
https://imgur.com/UVOeNOC

Finish:
https://imgur.com/ZNNFRRz

One of the keys was giving my infantry enough turns to entrench themselves enough so they weren't attacked by the AI. That means not attacking with them for a few turns.

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