Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

PC : Turn based WW2 goodness in the mold of Panzer General. This promises to be a true classic!

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Lifever
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by Lifever » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:10 pm

Gwaylare wrote: We do have mirror games here, so there is no start player. Once the challenge is accepted both players have a turn as the attacker.
For me it is a question of honour to play the turns in sequel. To play the first turn as defender first and then the first turn as an attacker second, I would consider as dishonourable and it obvious, because you release the sequel of turns your opponent.

Best regards
Gwaylare
You do have a point there... in a way that Slitherine could use for the sequel (I guess implementing it into PC now is out of the question): You have to play the attacker side first before being able to play the defender.

I always just answer the games in the list - top one first, since I played the first turn. As I see it (correct me if I'm mistaken), the game lists them with the one first answered at the top... and that's the one I click then, simply because I don't see what side it is.
There's also room for improvement by the way - showing round & side in the challenge list at least.

A code of honour is a nice luxury I personally respect and treat myself to. ;) Unfortunately when it comes to sport or any competitve spirit honour as a common basis does you no favours... It only lasts as long as everybody respects it; after that there's only frustration. "This is war" in some sense. So if there is a better way to even out chances just for fairness' sake, I would at least consider it... I direct this comment more to the future of this game than this tournament, because it's just a minor thing. At least I learned by now that there are far worse things that can happen than your opponent seeing your start. ;)

Kind regards,
Marius

Lifever
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Re: Round 2 Norway (1 week in)

Post by Lifever » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:45 pm

goose_2 wrote: It has come to my attention that cheating has occurred in matches.
Players that repeatedly download their rounds without saving can be monitored and will not be tolerated. The powers that be at Slitherine can and have been keeping track of this.
I don't feel adressed in the least since it only happened on occasion and I got footage of all the instances, but that problem with replays freezing while the sound is still playing... or not getting the replay basically force you to end the game over task manager and reload it.
I personally didn't have that issue in Poland, where I used the same setup, but there you could do without replays. Fighting a seabattle without a replay that shows you where the enemy ship went out of vision is impossible.

A simple solution would be to send every move instantly to the server so nobody can move a unit to scout the area, make up their mind, reload and avoid an ambush, stuff like that. Probably that was mentioned dozens of times in the section for PC2. We use this mechanic for another simple hex game... because that cheap sort of cheating is unworthy of an otherwise good game. At least in Panzer General you knew you got cheated when you couldn't load the replay, although that was a bug, not a feature. :)

[Edit] How about showing the number of times your opponent loaded a particular turn directly in the challenge list? This could even be implemented in the old PC fairly easy. That way a player can prejudge if he feels cheated and opt to report it to the service team. Gives the players the tools and therefore less work for the service-team to look for themselves or over an Algorithm, contact the player, listen to his excuses, maybe even analyze the context of the match (did he make unlikely moves, etc?). Win/Win
For example: If I see in advance my opponent loaded a turn 4 times and the replay starts with him killing off 2 stacks of units I thought were well hidden... yeah, I could at least ask him in a polite way "Do you feel lucky, ... Punk?"[/Edit]


---

@ Sealion // Greece

I have a great idea that literally everybody will endorse.
Players that won both sides (how often doesn't matter to me :D) have to follow through with Sealion, all the mortal players go to Greece and have a good time there. See it as in the campaign: It's your reward for performing so good... and if you get frustrated in Sealion, it's okay: You can vent that frustration on all the other players after the first bunch drop out of the Tournament.
You are welcome :)

eddieballgame
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by eddieballgame » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:27 pm

My rd 2 vs 'buffaloraven' went as...expected. :) I was thoroughly outplayed, & am becoming more impressed with the skill set required to play this game ( at least ) reasonably well.

Thank you again, goose_2 for the work you are doing & as far as scenarios to choose from, I will leave that up to the...veterans. Looking forward to another lesson in rd 3. :)

StefanDK
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by StefanDK » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:37 pm

About needing to reload multiple times: Last summer I started having the issue with replay freezes, but sound continuing so I would miss almost every single replay. At the time I too believed I was forced to close the Panzer Corps process through task manager so I did this over and over again. That annoyed me a lot, but at least I knew I was not cheating since all I did was reloading the game to see the replay. But I got flagged by the admins and I was chocked to get notices that I would be banned and such.

Then I found a workaround for the replays to work: Save the game to the server immediately after the "missing replay" load. Then reload the game from the server and 95 per cent of the times I was then able to see the replay. It is extremely annoying to waste time like that, and Goose has advised that you could close all irrelevant processes and such, but I believe it is a flaw in the game, not my setup. It has been this way since one of the Windows 10 major updates (Creators Update 2017 spring I think) and in my experience it does not exist on Windows 7.

So I advise everyone NOT to quit the game process the hard way and reload from the server since this WILL get you banned sooner or later. And I believe Goose is right that there should be no tolerance because it can be used to cheat although I swear I never did such a thing.

So: Save the game to the server and reload, do it once more if need be and then you should be able to get the full replay. Or reinstall Windows 7 :-)

StefanDK
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by StefanDK » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:38 pm

And as regards choice of scenario I vote for Greece.

I had kind of the same idea about following the campaign structure and choices depending on how good a player or the total sum of players were doing as either side, but this is way too demanding for Goose to keep track of and it is just not that fun I guess.

Hansstory
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by Hansstory » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:04 pm

Our Norway match in on turn 9 or 10. Hard fighting.

I vote for Greece.

eddieballgame
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by eddieballgame » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:07 pm

Per "freezes" I read where goose_2 suggested not moving the mouse after the load. This appears to work, at least for me.

ClaireRedfieldU
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by ClaireRedfieldU » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:17 pm

Goose_2 Hello, please tell me, you removed the player Rishat from participating in the tournament, because he rebooted 80 times per turn, can you provide proof? the accusation is very serious as well as punishment. Let us observe democratic norms, Rishat one of the contenders for victory is removed virtually without explaining the reasons and facts. Thanks

ClaireRedfieldU
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by ClaireRedfieldU » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:32 pm

Goose_2 Now this whole situation looks like discrimination of the Russian player Rishat. The community of Russian players in February 28 will consider the boycott of the tournament.

alexrommell
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by alexrommell » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:46 pm

StefanDK wrote:About needing to reload multiple times: Last summer I started having the issue with replay freezes, but sound continuing so I would miss almost every single replay. At the time I too believed I was forced to close the Panzer Corps process through task manager so I did this over and over again. That annoyed me a lot, but at least I knew I was not cheating since all I did was reloading the game to see the replay. But I got flagged by the admins and I was chocked to get notices that I would be banned and such.

Then I found a workaround for the replays to work: Save the game to the server immediately after the "missing replay" load. Then reload the game from the server and 95 per cent of the times I was then able to see the replay. It is extremely annoying to waste time like that, and Goose has advised that you could close all irrelevant processes and such, but I believe it is a flaw in the game, not my setup. It has been this way since one of the Windows 10 major updates (Creators Update 2017 spring I think) and in my experience it does not exist on Windows 7.

So I advise everyone NOT to quit the game process the hard way and reload from the server since this WILL get you banned sooner or later. And I believe Goose is right that there should be no tolerance because it can be used to cheat although I swear I never did such a thing.

So: Save the game to the server and reload, do it once more if need be and then you should be able to get the full replay. Or reinstall Windows 7 :-)
It is windows 10 too! The above idea does work as well. I will try not moving the mouse too. If we do ALL OF THESE we can avoid reboots all together :mrgreen: It will be better for us all!!

ClaireRedfieldU
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by ClaireRedfieldU » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:03 pm

Goose_2 Hello, please tell me, you removed the player Rishat from participating in the tournament, because he rebooted 80 times per turn, can you provide proof? the accusation is very serious as well as punishment. Let us observe democratic norms, Rishat one of the contenders for victory is removed virtually without explaining the reasons and facts. Thanks

ClaireRedfieldU
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by ClaireRedfieldU » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:03 pm

Goose_2 Now this whole situation looks like discrimination of the Russian player Rishat. The community of Russian players in February 28 will consider the boycott of the tournament.

Lifever
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by Lifever » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:47 pm

ClaireRedfieldU wrote:Goose_2 Now this whole situation looks like discrimination of the Russian player Rishat. The community of Russian players in February 28 will consider the boycott of the tournament.
If you need neutral ground to resolve everything, you can always put your trust in a guy from Austria. Seriously...

Please cut the guy a break. That tournament is time demanding enough, especially for the one organizing it.
Why should it be discrimination? That would only hold value if a player from another or any other country could presumably reload 80 times and would face other/lesser consequences. I hope this is not what you are saying, because there's no reason to go that route. No need for threats either... just drags everything down - my humble opinion.
Calm down, wait and see - an explanation is always nice when time is due. :)

Regards,
Marius

NightPhoenix
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by NightPhoenix » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:14 pm

Lifever wrote:
ClaireRedfieldU wrote:Goose_2 Now this whole situation looks like discrimination of the Russian player Rishat. The community of Russian players in February 28 will consider the boycott of the tournament.
If you need neutral ground to resolve everything, you can always put your trust in a guy from Austria. Seriously...

Please cut the guy a break. That tournament is time demanding enough, especially for the one organizing it.
Why should it be discrimination? That would only hold value if a player from another or any other country could presumably reload 80 times and would face other/lesser consequences. I hope this is not what you are saying, because there's no reason to go that route. No need for threats either... just drags everything down - my humble opinion.
Calm down, wait and see - an explanation is always nice when time is due. :)

Regards,
Marius
I'm also fairly certain Goose_2 has nothing to do with it. The owners of the server, be that developers or anybody else who is able to check that stuff gives that information to him. I would also not be surprised if the people who normally do that stuff contacted the player in question outside the settings of the tournament and/or took the decision to prevent this person from playing on the server anymore. Leading to an automatic loss in the tournament as well. So complaining to Goose_2 does not seem to me to be the way to go or fruitful, simply because it's most likely (99,99% sure) not in his hands.

sn0wball
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by sn0wball » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:29 am

I wonder why one would reload 80 times. For cheating purposes, I can imagine to reload one or two times, to scout the enemy or have a bad combat rolled anew. And for technical issues - I am sure I would quit the game if it wouldn´t work after 10 reloads.

AMDonline
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by AMDonline » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:48 am

in goose's defense, he didn't actually say that rishat load 80 times, he was explaining to me how someone can cheat and he gave an example of someone reloading 80 times

i myself thought rishat actually loaded 80 times when he played against me and i asked him(rishat) in the email about it, so the 80 thingy is my mistake.
Last edited by AMDonline on Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Zachmann
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by Zachmann » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:05 am

My vote for GREECE.
Maybe we should at all follow the historical path to avoid Scenarios that are too imbalanced?


Now, if someone keeps track of the number of downloads...and the efficiency of that player is unbelievable, as reported here...
Well, I would've come to the same Resolution if I was in goose_2's shoes (or combat boots).

sn0wball
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by sn0wball » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:39 am

Perhaps we should all agree that everyone mentions the need to reload and the reason to his opponent in the chat.

Lifever
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by Lifever » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:41 am

StefanDK wrote:And as regards choice of scenario I vote for Greece.

I had kind of the same idea about following the campaign structure and choices depending on how good a player or the total sum of players were doing as either side, but this is way too demanding for Goose to keep track of and it is just not that fun I guess.
I thought the irony was laid on pretty thick with "an idea everybody will endorse". It's not a great idea, because every imbalanced scenario provides a high chance of a one-sided tragedy a player can't avoid. That's hardly a good battleground for two skilled opponents.
Skipping similar maps to make it to the end of the war is probably first choice.

---

Regarding the replays: Maybe it really is movement of the mouse. I will test it in a friendly game. It's not an issue with Windows10, because I run Windows7. Thanks for the suggestion anyway.

@ Snowballs suggestion:
I'm in to report it to an opponent if it happens, but as long we do not get an agreement out of everybody it's pretty useless I'm afraid. If somebody is willing so risk getting banned or at least disqualified.. he will also risk his reputation/image to his opponent as he does that in any way.
We would need feedback from service-team if that telling makes a difference. Otherwise it only leads to more discussion/paranoia/bad blood mE.

Zachmann
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Re: Panzer Corps Tournament 2018

Post by Zachmann » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:31 am

Thanks a lot to ANDIFROEN for an interesting POLAND match.

Good luck to you for the next game!

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