Elite replacements in mission vs before mission

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DrOnline82
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Elite replacements in mission vs before mission

Post by DrOnline82 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:33 pm

Hey,

I just did a 10->11 elite replacement on my gebirgsjäger in poland, and it cost 25 prestige. Does it cost 25 if I do it before the next missions as well, or might I as well do it whenever, like I did.

turn4441
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Re: Elite replacements in mission vs before mission

Post by turn4441 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:06 pm

No, it will be much less as elites are half as much and regulars are free between scenarios. Try to avoid in scenario replacements whenever possible, both regular and elite. First of all, try not to let your units take too much damage and then, if they do, just try to keep them back from the front and then repair them before the next scenario.

DrOnline82
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Re: Elite replacements in mission vs before mission

Post by DrOnline82 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:13 pm

!!!!!!!!!!!! I've wasted my life! Well, I've wasted some prestige. Definitely time to restart the campaign then, certainly going to stop replentishing unnecessarily in scenario.

I did suspect it was that way, thanks for confirming.

proline
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Re: Elite replacements in mission vs before mission

Post by proline » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:58 pm

Minimizing elite replacements during scenarios makes a huge difference to a campaign. If you save 150 by withdrawing a damaged tank to a safe area and waiting to replace between scenarios you will have saved enough money to buy a tiger after just 5 scenarios.

huckc
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Re: Elite replacements in mission vs before mission

Post by huckc » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:29 am

Often times a little over-strength is good.

1. Less opportunity cost of losing that 6 health tank for the scenario or losing a turn to order replacements for that 8 health tank
2. Higher initiative units will do more first-shot damage resulting in less damage in return
3. Makes your job a little easier. Less likely to lose the unit outright.

Soft cap notwithstanding.

proline
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Re: Elite replacements in mission vs before mission

Post by proline » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:20 am

Agreed. I'm a big fan of starting at 11 strength. That 11th point between scenarios costs the same as 1 point of elite replacements during the scenario, but it can often prevent more than that. For example, if a tank takes a three point hit and goes 11 -> 8 it will probably still be effective for the rest of the scenario. If it had instead gone 10 -> 7 you might start thinking about giving it replacements which would then cost you 3 instead of having spent 1 before the scenario.

captainjack
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Re: Elite replacements in mission vs before mission

Post by captainjack » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:50 am

Even though I don't use soft cap, I usually stop at 11 strength for most front line units, though there's always a few special cases like a unit with very good defence hero or attack hero which has to clear out a choke point early on that get 12 or 13.

Rear units (artillery with RoF 100+ AA and strategic bombers) usually get up to 13, but again the odd special unit will get 14 or 15 (5* Churchill croc against soft targets with 140 RoF....) .

Engineers for mine clearing, recon, guns with RoF less than 100 and bridgies will usually get 10 unless they have special heroes or a particularly critical mission.

From experience, this is one of the better value for money approaches I've tried, which still allows a few in-game elite reinfrocements when needed.

AnalogGamer
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Re: Elite replacements in mission vs before mission

Post by AnalogGamer » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:16 am

Yep, turn it up to 11. Anything that sees front-line combat.

My artillery(especially the wurf) goes to 12 and even 13 with the right heroes. Level bombers same. A 13 Wurf with a +3 Attack is nasty.

My best fighters get 12, even though I know they are going to lose it. Makes the first combat much more effective, and that is usually the most important one for aircraft.

proline
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Re: Elite replacements in mission vs before mission

Post by proline » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:23 pm

AnalogGamer wrote:My best fighters get 12, even though I know they are going to lose it. Makes the first combat much more effective, and that is usually the most important one for aircraft.
You know I've never done this for cost reasons but you gave me an idea- what if I pick one decent fighter, over strength it to 13 and use it exclusively for bombers? The over strength would get knocked off quickly against fighters, but if I only target bombers it could massacre them and the enemy fighters wouldn't dare touch it so maybe the over strength would last?

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Re: Elite replacements in mission vs before mission

Post by ptje63 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:11 pm

I usually keep my units at 11 strength except the vulnarable but indispensible Ju87s which stay at 12.
A big drawback of PC1 is the inability to strengthen a unit just 1 or 2 points, which in numerous occasions could mean the difference between withdrawing a unit or let it continue to play a role in the background or flanks: 5 = withdraw / 7 or 8 = continue.

AnalogGamer
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Re: Elite replacements in mission vs before mission

Post by AnalogGamer » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:19 am

proline wrote: You know I've never done this for cost reasons but you gave me an idea- what if I pick one decent fighter, over strength it to 13 and use it exclusively for bombers? The over strength would get knocked off quickly against fighters, but if I only target bombers it could massacre them and the enemy fighters wouldn't dare touch it so maybe the over strength would last?
That is what I do, but I usually choose two fighters. They are used to kill bombers and finish off fighters. AI fighters won't come near a really overstrength plane, unless they can swarm it with everything. This also works for me, as it clusters the enemy airpower. It is another form of fighter trap. Make them go after the weaker fighters, then I finish them.

While I usually agree with the no replacement in battle guideline, I also usually have the prestige to do what needs to be done. If a unit needs it, I give it and damn the cost. If I can do without that unit for the rest of the battle then it can tap out.

loganfive
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Re: Elite replacements in mission vs before mission

Post by loganfive » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:02 pm

AnalogGamer wrote:
proline wrote: You know I've never done this for cost reasons but you gave me an idea- what if I pick one decent fighter, over strength it to 13 and use it exclusively for bombers? The over strength would get knocked off quickly against fighters, but if I only target bombers it could massacre them and the enemy fighters wouldn't dare touch it so maybe the over strength would last?
That is what I do, but I usually choose two fighters. They are used to kill bombers and finish off fighters. AI fighters won't come near a really overstrength plane, unless they can swarm it with everything. This also works for me, as it clusters the enemy airpower. It is another form of fighter trap. Make them go after the weaker fighters, then I finish them.

While I usually agree with the no replacement in battle guideline, I also usually have the prestige to do what needs to be done. If a unit needs it, I give it and damn the cost. If I can do without that unit for the rest of the battle then it can tap out.
I would say it depends on the campaign. I have found that in the DLC East campaigns, once you get to 1943 the Soviet AA becomes a huge problem for all your air units, much more so than the enemy fighters. Those pesky T-90s have a way of coming out of nowhere and taking 5-point chunks out of your 13-strength FW190s. It gets very expensive compared to just using a regular strength ME109 to go after the Soviet bombers.

captainjack
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Re: Elite replacements in mission vs before mission

Post by captainjack » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:22 pm

loganfive wrote:nce you get to 1943 the Soviet AA becomes a huge problem
The amount of overstrength required to maintain combat effectiveness would probably be OK if dealing mostly with fighters, but 3 range 3 star 85s, a million T90 and M3 halftracks make it very expensive to maintain anything more than a small and very carefully managed air force. It's about this time I start to cut back on air power and rely more on AA which is at maximum possible overstrength and always reinforced with elite troops even in game. Not everyone's preferred approach, but it seems to be a good balance between cost and effectiveness.

ycloon
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Re: Elite replacements in mission vs before mission

Post by ycloon » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:55 am

AnalogGamer wrote:
proline wrote:
While I usually agree with the no replacement in battle guideline, I also usually have the prestige to do what needs to be done. If a unit needs it, I give it and damn the cost. If I can do without that unit for the rest of the battle then it can tap out.
Agree. I think ultimately the decision to use in-mission replacements should be made in support of your overall goal (i.e., achieving whichever level of victory - DV or MV - that you desire). There is no one-size-fits-all. I have used elite reinforcements during a scenario on numerous occasions to repair some critical units.
captainjack wrote:
loganfive wrote:nce you get to 1943 the Soviet AA becomes a huge problem
The amount of overstrength required to maintain combat effectiveness would probably be OK if dealing mostly with fighters, but 3 range 3 star 85s, a million T90 and M3 halftracks make it very expensive to maintain anything more than a small and very carefully managed air force. It's about this time I start to cut back on air power and rely more on AA which is at maximum possible overstrength and always reinforced with elite troops even in game. Not everyone's preferred approach, but it seems to be a good balance between cost and effectiveness.
Considering that each star for an AA is +2 air attack (on par with each star for a fighter) and AA is generally cheaper, I also find elite reinforcing AAs during a mission to be acceptable.

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