Favorite Artillery unit

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goose_2
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Favorite Artillery unit

Post by goose_2 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:19 pm

I looked at my kills on my 3 30cm Nebelwerfer beasts that I am using in my Manstein playthrough.

3rd best or weakest 30cm has +2 Att/+2 Def Double Heroed and over 1200 kills, still expecting to get 3rd hero that I hope is either +1 Movement or +1 Range.

2nd best 30cm Nebelwerfer +1Range/+1 Movement Double Heroed and over 1400 kills...He used to be a 17cm +1 movement hero and when I received 2nd hero in Sevastopol and it was a +1 Range hero, I was excited to have a +4 range Powerhouse that I could fire at opponents 6 hexes away thanks to the +1 movement, but I found that they were not wracking up the number of kills I was hoping, that all changed as soon as I upgraded to a Nebelwerfer.

#1 bad boy that I would say makes the 2nd hero the best hero, with first being +1 movement, is my +1 Movement +3 Att 30cm Beast with over 1700 kills. (This boy is going to get a 3rd hero anytime now, and I hope it is either a +3 att 2nd hero or +1 Range which will increase its effectiveness even more.

Basically my favorite artillery to use is by far the Nebelwerfer's, they are absolute beasts and easy to decimate any soft target...I am the biggest fan of artillery, and find a healthy mix of various units the best to handle any number of offensive and defensive challenges.

My question is what is other players favorite artillery to use for the Axis, for the Allies, for the Soviets? Best of the game?
Why? What is it about those units that you find make them the best?

I have so many thoughts on this subject but I would like to hear the forum's thoughts first.
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Spaznetz
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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by Spaznetz » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:28 pm

I never used them much before my most recent start, but I gotta say that I'm loving my 75mm ever since I started using Fallschirmjagers more frequently as 'behind the lines' troublemakers. Pop that bad boy into a plane and give those paras some supporting fire! I haven't gotten it a hero yet, but I'm hoping for movement or range.

goose_2
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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by goose_2 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:48 pm

Spaznetz wrote:I never used them much before my most recent start, but I gotta say that I'm loving my 75mm ever since I started using Fallschirmjagers more frequently as 'behind the lines' troublemakers. Pop that bad boy into a plane and give those paras some supporting fire! I haven't gotten it a hero yet, but I'm hoping for movement or range.

I too have never tried this strategy...

Can you do this because you do not give them a truck?
Can you land the 75mm arty anywhere or does it have to be on an airfield?

Can you give me an example of how this is done, or how you implement this in a particular scenario?

Thanks for bringing something new, that is why I love this forum. ;)
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JaM2013
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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by JaM2013 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:54 pm

its actually probably one of game flaws, but you can perfectly do with just tanks and artillery through whole game... you don't even need infantry units whatsoever if you can bring enough of artillery with you... even in cities tanks with artillery behind them are perfectly fine...

goose_2
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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by goose_2 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:57 pm

JaM2013 wrote:its actually probably one of game flaws, but you can perfectly do with just tanks and artillery through whole game... you don't even need infantry units whatsoever if you can bring enough of artillery with you... even in cities tanks with artillery behind them are perfectly fine...
I cannot imagine doing this game without infantry, they are great at keeping soft cap down and being able to dislodge entrenched soft units, or decimating hard targets trapped in close terrain.

I do not agree.
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Spaznetz
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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by Spaznetz » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:13 pm

goose_2 wrote:
Spaznetz wrote:I never used them much before my most recent start, but I gotta say that I'm loving my 75mm ever since I started using Fallschirmjagers more frequently as 'behind the lines' troublemakers. Pop that bad boy into a plane and give those paras some supporting fire! I haven't gotten it a hero yet, but I'm hoping for movement or range.

I too have never tried this strategy...

Can you do this because you do not give them a truck?
Can you land the 75mm arty anywhere or does it have to be on an airfield?

Can you give me an example of how this is done, or how you implement this in a particular scenario?

Thanks for bringing something new, that is why I love this forum. ;)
I can't take credit for the idea, someone on the forums mentioned it and I tried it out because I'd never been able to get Fallschirmjagers to work without them getting beat up badly.

It should be mentioned that I am editing the scenarios for my own preferences by deleting any Auxiliary units and replacing them with core slots.

1) Yes, no truck for the 75mm as it flies on a Ju 52 like any other air-transportable unit.
2) Airfield landing only. Though you could probably edit the equipment file and make it just like the Fallschirmjagers if you were inclined to do it. Perhaps someone else could advise as to whether there is a historical example?
3) I use 2 units of Fallschirmjagers with a 75mm as a group. Obviously, the setup isn't useful in every situation, but I just finished the France scenario of the Vanilla campaign and it worked well there. Tours, Rennes, & Le Mans are all good targets for this group as they each have an airfield and are a bit out of the way behind the main enemy forces. I took Tours first and then moved though Nantes on the way to Rennes. I had planned to go for Le Mans in a circular path while my main force focused on the north, but changed direction for Avranche and a second direction of attack on the northwest. I land one of the para units on an airfield (or try to :) ) and move the 75mm on top of them. Next turn, shift the paras off the field and land the 75mm. The AI can screw you up if they shift onto the airfield, but that's what the AI is for, right? :wink:

I'm thinking that I will probably use them for Sea Lion and some of the Russian scenarios where a small group can take a lot of under-protected ground away from the main fighting. I might even work up another 75mm since they are cheap, but I'm still wanting my first hero on the first one. Movement would be best, I think, so that it can keep up with the Falls, but a Range hero would be nice as well. Fingers crossed :)

I haven't gotten very far in the Grand Campaign, but I can imagine this tactic to be useful on maps like Minsk '41. I'm sure that having the tool in my toolbox is making me look at maps a bit differently.

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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by stormbringer3 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:40 pm

Goose_2, do you ever use the 21cm Nebelwerfer or only the 30cm? In some of your older posts you loved the StuG IIIB. Have you changed your mind about that unit or is the Nebelwerfer a later game replacement? I've been trying to decide between a StuG IV and a 21cm or 30cm Nebelwerfer. My hesitation on the 30cm is the ammo count.
Thanks for your opinions.

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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by goose_2 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:04 pm

stormbringer3 wrote:Goose_2, do you ever use the 21cm Nebelwerfer or only the 30cm? In some of your older posts you loved the StuG IIIB. Have you changed your mind about that unit or is the Nebelwerfer a later game replacement? I've been trying to decide between a StuG IV and a 21cm or 30cm Nebelwerfer. My hesitation on the 30cm is the ammo count.
Thanks for your opinions.
I would probably use a lower caliber Nebelwerfer, and am giving more consideration to using different caliber Nebelwerfers in other playthroughs as I have been intrigued by Lt. Joker's and Braccada's historically accurate historical units Rommel playthrough. (I am still wrapping my mind around what to play next, even as I am working to finish my Guderian and Manstein playthrough's.)

About your other questions:
StuG3B's: I still have 5 of them in 44 East. I use 2 regularly +3 Def and +1 Range, I still love them, as they are great at stymieing enemy attacks, and suppressing soft targets, but their greatest weakness is their inability to rack up actual kills. Those 2 units will get 2nd heroes, but that is it...( I love them also for their cheapness, great way to keep soft cap not overwhelming you)

StuG 4 AT...I looked at the stats for these guns and was not impressed, but I saw Night Phoenix upgrade one of his StuG3G's to one, and decided to upgrade my +3 Attack StuG3G to one. It has great dual ability and has been a wonderful cheaper suppresser of targets on the Battlefield.

21cm arty...I have none...their anemic ROF .70 makes and high cost has kept me from using them. I have several 17cm arty's. (Too many to be honest, I should never have upgraded all of my 10.5cm arty's as the low cost 100% ROF 10.5cm arty's would be preferable this stage of the game, but I will be darned if I downgrade any of my 17cm artys. So I primarily use my +3 Att/+3 Def and +2 Att/+1 Movement 17cm arty's.

I have other thoughts on other artillery in the game, but that is enough for now, and I want to hear more discussion from other players.
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stormbringer3
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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by stormbringer3 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:50 pm

Thanks for your reply. I probably wasn't clear enough, I meant the 21cm Nebelwerfer, I totally agree with you about the 21cm artillery.

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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by Buffalohump » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:04 am

There is so much that I want to unpack but I will limit it to the topic of this discussion. After reading many of Goose 2’s AAR’s I began my first full Field Marshal play-through more reliant on artillery and anti air guns. I have in the past been more air reliant but am trying to do a couple of things. 1. Stay under, or as close as I can, the soft cap. And 2., be more historically accurate in my army’s composition (smaller Air Force). I currently have 16 artillery units in my army. Only six of them have heroes, all range. I have disbanded every defensive, low attack, and spotting hero I have received. I am currently playing Yakovlevo (East 43) with 12 artillery units deployed. My current favorites are my StuH 42s and 17 cm K 18s. I have also been a fan of the StuG IIIs but their usefulness has about played out and I think for the first time I will upgrade them to Brummbars. I don’t dislike the nebelwerfers I just value mobility and ammo capacity at this time. I have two each of the previously mentioned units and 2 Wurfrahman with the remainder being the always useful 10.5 cm guns. This preference may change as I progress into 44 and 45 East. I have never finished the Eastern campaign past the end of 43 as I have until recently only really enjoyed the western campaign.

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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by captainjack » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:50 am

If you have glider transports allocated in the scenario you can use them to land the 75mm anywhere. The downside is that you can't choose which transport to use and simply get what is next in line, so you might not be able to use a glider until all the Ju52 are in use even if one is available. The other downside is that you might have a long walk to find the next airfield or railway station for the next trip.

My current favourate artillery is the armoured halftrack nebelwerfer with +3 attack and +1 range. The +3 attack, 1 move towed 105 is quite useful too. The 14 strength is expensive but well worth it as they often do 3 or 4 kills on exposed infantry as well as providing heavy suppression.

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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by WarHomer » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:19 am

Goose, how do you rack up so many kills? Do you let the artillery units finish off enemy units? I usually suppress with my artillery and finish off with inf or tanks.

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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by Spaznetz » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:44 pm

captainjack wrote:If you have glider transports allocated in the scenario you can use them to land the 75mm anywhere. The downside is that you can't choose which transport to use and simply get what is next in line, so you might not be able to use a glider until all the Ju52 are in use even if one is available. The other downside is that you might have a long walk to find the next airfield or railway station for the next trip.

Thanks for the new info, captainjack! I guess I haven't hit a scenario with gliders yet or haven't used up all the Ju 52's.

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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by huckc » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:56 pm

Fun:
Wurhframen, Sherman Calliope, 280m K5 railway gun

Best:
Sherman Calliope and M12 155mm GMC hands down. They're outliers in their stats.

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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by goose_2 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:28 pm

WarHomer wrote:Goose, how do you rack up so many kills? Do you let the artillery units finish off enemy units? I usually suppress with my artillery and finish off with inf or tanks.
How do I rack up so many kills...easy I am playing on Manstein so a lot more to kill.

I always suppress first, in fact I often over suppress as I want to force surrender or avoid damage.

+1 Movement is the best 1st hero any towed artillery can get as it helps towed arty move with advancement and still provide support.

I rack up so many kills because I love, love, love to use the enemies vision to its disadvantage. Just recently for example, I purposefully moved up a Nebelwerfer right next to a 16 Str SMG in a city. (SMG only have a vision of 1) I fired the last of the units ammo at another enemy unit that I finished off that round.
When it was the enemies turn, they thought they had free reign to whoop up on my out of ammo Nebelwerfer. Little did they know it was already guarded by another Nebelwerfer and a StuG3B. This garnered like 8 kills for my artillery and prevented their 16 str unit from even touching my Nebelwerfer.

I do this kind of thing all of the time because Russian vision stinks, SMG and Conscripts only have 1 vision, but you can do it by placing Tanks and Anti tanks in close terrain that their Guards units see but fail to see the 2 artillery backing it up behind the vulnerable unit, so they will move in and attack first ask questions later and get shredded by my artillery...especially Nebelwerfer's.

Nebelwerfer's are awesome, they shred anything soft coming at you. (That is why I have 3 artillery I am expecting to get a 3rd hero on.)
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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by hugh2711 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:55 pm

I tend to keep a number of 17cm, by the end of GC heroed preferably with a range hero. I go straight from 10.5cm to 17cm and no further because see graphs on threads:
viewtopic.php?f=121&t=26663#p245092 and viewtopic.php?f=121&t=26663 you will see from the nice easy to glance at bar graphs that the upgrade to 15cm is not much of a bargain neither is the 21cm.
I have a few sig38 but prefer the su122.

My most used artilliary is the wurfrahmen of which I have a number preferably with a range hero they are awesome. I dont convert them to panzerwerfer because; if a panzerwerfer gets hit with a tank etc it is stuffed anyway so I keep them as wurfrahmen and just look after them.

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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by captainjack » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:42 pm

I currently have three panzerwerfers in West 44. Two are normal and one has A3 and R1 heroes (and a big stack of kills). I like the extra hitting power of the Wurfrahmen, but extra ammo suits my playing style better. Also, the worfrahmen 's even more of a trouble-magnet than the panzerwerfers are. Goose2's comments are making me think about changing my towed 21cm to a 30cm.

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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by goose_2 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:59 pm

My thoughts on Wurfrahmen and the Panzerwerfer:

Wurfrahmen:
Pro's:
Incredibly fast and far reaching, being able to maneuver almost anywhere on the map.
Great at soft unit suppression and repulsion of soft unit attack.
Easy to build up experience, because of it's ability to wrack up suppression and kill points on soft units.

Con's:
Extremely fragile to air and ground attack. (If it get's caught unguarded it is toast)
Extremely expensive. (If you buy elite replacements it will cost you)
Limited ammo (4 ammo means frequent reloads)
Limited hard attack (virtually never gets a kill and rarely get's much in hard suppression)
2 range (unless you have a range hero)

Panzerwerfer:
Pro's:
A little cheaper than Wurfrahmen.
A little more defensive capability than the extremely vulnerable Wurfrahmen.

Con's:
Everything that is on Wurfrahmen, but with not as much mobility or soft attack.

For this reason I do not use Panzerwerfer's.

The Wurfrahmen:
I have 2 in my East Manstein Campaign, but mainly bring my +3 Defense +1 Range unit as at least it can take a hit before I need to retreat, and less fearful of losing it out right. (My other is +1 Range +1 Attack)

I had 3 in my West Guderian Blind Campaign, but one got caught and destroyed by an enemy counter attack.

So my experience has not been very enjoyable using these infantry shredders, and I find the Nebelwerfers better overall guns, and the ISU-122's better at providing artillery back up to forward units.

But the pros and cons of ISU-122's is for another post.

What are other thoughts on this very controversial and divided unit?
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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by sn0wball » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:10 pm

Playing a lot multiplayer maps in the early campaign years because of the 2018 tournament made me appreciate the Schneider 1917 155mm gun, as used by the French and the Belgians. Its pretty cheap, available right from the start, doesn´t get obsolete and is extremely powerful.

Of course, the same is true for the Italian 149mm gun. When I played Africa Corps on Graziani mode (using Italian units only), it was that old gun which allowed me to surpress Matildas and Churchhills into oblivion.

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Re: Favorite Artillery unit

Post by captainjack » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:29 am

The Italian 149 has 90% ROF compared with 80 for almost everything else of comparable size. The truck-only limitation isn't such a big deal in the desert and it keeps it cheap. The higher RoF and the lack of a 170 or heavier gun makes upgrading the 105s to 149s a good ooption.

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