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Rudel.

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:22 pm
by stormbringer3
Since Rudel starts with an A+9 and a D+9, If I change him to a fighter bomber which additional heroes would be better, initiative or more A's and D's?
Thanks for any opinions.

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:56 pm
by PeteMitchell
Initiative if fighting other fighter planes. A's and D's for anything else... but I also think it doesn't really matter... IMHO

Personally, I prefer him to be in a fighter bomber (so he can look after himself, i.e. no additional fighter escort needed) plus some more A's so he can still hit hard enough on late war SU tanks...

Not sure more D's are really needed as he is rarely attacked in a fighter bomber and he can still fly straight into (most) AAs as well...

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:25 am
by hugh2711
I always change him to a fighter bomber immediately. His heroes are so good he makes a decent fighter on his own and as a bomber he doesnt need an escort.

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:16 pm
by captainjack
I almost always convert rudel to a 110 as soon as possible so I get both air and ground attack.

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:28 pm
by Kerensky
Nothing like a +9 +9 hero with a special acquisition method to keep people discussing it years later. =D

That said, I personally didn't turn him into a fighter bomber. I have quite the collection of Luftwaffe Fighter Aces, I don't really ever feel a crushing need for more air power.

I'm much happier keeping Rudel in a Stuka. With OS, experience, and additional heroes... he can 1 shot Soviet tanks and even wipe out AD to open up a path for the rest of my air force to operate. And at 9 atk and 9 defense, sometimes he doesn't even need his own escort, especially as the air war winds down in a scenario.

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:37 pm
by Elkarlo
Kerensky wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:28 pm
Nothing like a +9 +9 hero with a special acquisition method to keep people discussing it years later. =D

That said, I personally didn't turn him into a fighter bomber. I have quite the collection of Luftwaffe Fighter Aces, I don't really ever feel a crushing need for more air power.

I'm much happier keeping Rudel in a Stuka. With OS, experience, and additional heroes... he can 1 shot Soviet tanks and even wipe out AD to open up a path for the rest of my air force to operate. And at 9 atk and 9 defense, sometimes he doesn't even need his own escort, especially as the air war winds down in a scenario.
This I like Stuka Rudel. He's basically a cheat code. You can basically blast an enemy tank out in one go with him. If there's a sudden Soviet counter attack. You can blunt it with him pretty well. I think him in a Stuka makes sense

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:28 pm
by MaxF
Elkarlo wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:37 pm
Kerensky wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:28 pm
Nothing like a +9 +9 hero with a special acquisition method to keep people discussing it years later. =D

That said, I personally didn't turn him into a fighter bomber. I have quite the collection of Luftwaffe Fighter Aces, I don't really ever feel a crushing need for more air power.

I'm much happier keeping Rudel in a Stuka. With OS, experience, and additional heroes... he can 1 shot Soviet tanks and even wipe out AD to open up a path for the rest of my air force to operate. And at 9 atk and 9 defense, sometimes he doesn't even need his own escort, especially as the air war winds down in a scenario.
This I like Stuka Rudel. He's basically a cheat code. You can basically blast an enemy tank out in one go with him. If there's a sudden Soviet counter attack. You can blunt it with him pretty well. I think him in a Stuka makes sense
And I think that a powerful Stuka unit is more historical than a strong Me110 unit.

Stukas proved to be reliable antitank machines, while the 110 didn't perform very well.

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:47 pm
by JagdpanzerIV
Personally i keep him in a stuka upgraded to maximum stars available. 15 Strudel takes out any tank underneath his bomber, they're simply gone! But later on in the war, i switch him into the Hs 129, to destroy any soft targets just as easily.

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:24 am
by captainjack
I agree. Rudel makes a good HS129, sharing the destruction across both soft and hard targets

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:57 pm
by faos333
JagdpanzerIV wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:47 pm
Personally i keep him in a stuka upgraded to maximum stars available. 15 Strudel takes out any tank underneath his bomber, they're simply gone! But later on in the war, i switch him into the Hs 129, to destroy any soft targets just as easily.
Interesting point, I will keep it in mind, when I ever play with him.

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:12 am
by heinzrondorf
JagdpanzerIV wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:47 pm
Personally i keep him in a stuka upgraded to maximum stars available. 15 Strudel takes out any tank underneath his bomber, they're simply gone! But later on in the war, i switch him into the Hs 129, to destroy any soft targets just as easily.
I agree, good advice. I have always used him in variations of Stuka or 110/410 until Fw 190G become available but after reading your post I tried him as a Hs 129 on my current play through and I really like it. He even works well against entrenched infantry. Love it!

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:55 am
by MaxF
I'm in middle of 1943, Prokorovka, and I still haven't got the real Rudel.

He failed the promotion in 1942, and I have only the Recon-Rudel on Me410 (view range 4 )

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:55 am
by MaxF
I'm in middle of 1943, Prokorovka, and I still haven't got the real Rudel.

He failed the promotion in 1942, and I have only the Recon-Rudel on Me410 (view range 4 )

Will I get it or could I finish the game without him?

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:38 am
by captainjack
You have to deploy recon Rudel in Minsk 41 to get fighting Rudel so unless you fancy a load of replays you've missed him if you're in 1942. While fighting Rudel is very good it's hard to see how one unit could be the difference between success and disaster, especially if you get a bit of luck on heroes for your favourite units.

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:36 pm
by MaxF
I see I didnt deploy him in Minsk41 :(

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:51 am
by Elkarlo
JagdpanzerIV wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:47 pm
Personally i keep him in a stuka upgraded to maximum stars available. 15 Strudel takes out any tank underneath his bomber, they're simply gone! But later on in the war, i switch him into the Hs 129, to destroy any soft targets just as easily.
Does the HS 129 still wreck tanks? I love how Rudel in a Stuka takes anything out. When AAA is gone, he basically kills a unit per turn. It's amazing. Late war, I'm more worried about armor than infantry tbh. So I like being bake to take out a tank or a mobile artillery unit over killing infantry

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:01 am
by rubyjuno
I changed Rudel to a Bf110 pretty quickly, and never regretted it, although now he's in a Me410.

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:57 am
by Kirby
As we encounter heavier russian armor, the "Get Rudel'd gift package" (get in - one shot - get out) doesn't work as well with the Bf110 as it does with a overstrength Ju 87 D or G.
I still prefer Rudel in a D, because it can deal with all sorts of Artillery and AA, soft or hard, which are the main issue later in the war.

In fact, haven't yet tried it, but it might be worthwile to convert Lent to a regular dive bomber as well (I'm not sure if the super-high initiative would work against AA guns).
As the war progresses on, fighter-bombers truly serve no purpose, as they still need to be escorted and dive bombers are just better in what they are supposed to do - destroy key targets. Loitering above frontline is generally not a good idea due to enemy SPAAGs, except perhaps after acquiring local air supremacy, at which point the number of critical unreachable targets is way lower anyway.

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:54 am
by captainjack
Initiative doesn't help when attacking ground targets as the ground units always fire first (I think the initiative is set to 99 and 0 or something that clearly says ground fires first) so you're better off keeping Lent as a fighter bomber where the initiative is helpful for assuring you get the first shot against bombers or at least lets you have a shot at the fighters before they take you apart.

Re: Rudel.

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:41 am
by Kirby
captainjack wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:54 am
Initiative doesn't help when attacking ground targets as the ground units always fire first (I think the initiative is set to 99 and 0 or something that clearly says ground fires first) so you're better off keeping Lent as a fighter bomber where the initiative is helpful for assuring you get the first shot against bombers or at least lets you have a shot at the fighters before they take you apart.
Yeah I figured as much ;)