Exaggerated AI reinforcements

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dragos
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
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Exaggerated AI reinforcements

Post by dragos »

Playing DLC, you have probably noticed that towards the end of a scenario, in an enemy held town, the AI will start buying units, usually spamming the most expensive unit it can buy.
Playing GC42 East, I have just witnessed the AI buying 5 (FIVE!) KV-1 tanks around a town. Fortunately I was able to end the scenario one turn later.
Besides feeling artificial, if you cannot end the scenario quickly, it can ruin the entire play. There is no way your worn and battered units can stand such a formidable force once they start moving towards one of objectives.
I hope in Panzer Corps 2 AI reinforcements will be handled differently.
Erasermarek
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Re: Exaggerated AI reinforcements

Post by Erasermarek »

Realism... if you take Moscow quick, Soviets will not be able to deliver their reinforcements from Siberia. If you take Stalingrad quick, Soviets will not be able to deliver their reinforcements. Give the Soviets time to defend ... in a moment they will receive fresh reinforcements to counterattack.
dragos
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Re: Exaggerated AI reinforcements

Post by dragos »

This has nothing to do with the outcome of previous battles. Also it has nothing to do with supply lines, since the game does not abstracticize them. The units can pop-up out of thin air behind your lines if you bypass a insignificant town.
Also, I had no problems if the AI would purchase a balance of forces, such as a couple of infantry, a couple of tanks and an artillery. But five heavy tanks it's over the top.
Buffalohump
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Re: Exaggerated AI reinforcements

Post by Buffalohump »

I have been experimenting with a strategy to defeat this. In the later campaigns I have two recon vehicles, two airborne units, and one tac bomber that I try to keep out of the enemy’s sight radius and move around behind the lines taking undefended and lightly defended objectives and cities. It works most of the time. I have had trouble when an unseen enemy recon or strongpoint/fort sees me coming. The two airborne units are well heroed and I do not drop them where I can not support them quickly with the recon units and tac bomber. I have found defensive heroes best for all units involved.

Regards,
Buffalohump
PeteMitchell
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Re: Exaggerated AI reinforcements

Post by PeteMitchell »

IMHO it often requires broader attacks, i.e. if possible more in parallel (simultaneously) and less in sequence...
Comprehensive Battlefield Europe AAR:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86481
Buffalohump
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Re: Exaggerated AI reinforcements

Post by Buffalohump »

PeteMitchell_2 wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:29 am IMHO it often requires broader attacks, i.e. if possible more in parallel (simultaneously) and less in sequence...
I agree, just something I have been playing with to fight boredom while I wait for PC2.
captainjack
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Re: Exaggerated AI reinforcements

Post by captainjack »

Some deployments are scripted and therefore aren't dependent on AI prestige. Escape from Stalingrad is a good example, whee a group of KV1C appear,along with one of the Sicilian scenarios in the Western route where a whole US army appears. Very nasty if you are in the middle of it. I think the only way you can stop those is to occupy all possible deployment hexes, but you'd probably run into other problems by tying up so many units in one place.
The AI can also get scripted or triggered prestige dumps, and may spend up suddenly immediately after.
I'm not usually very successful with paras but they can be good for seizing far-flung cities to avoid spawning, especially in conjunction with fast recon units. More often I have a main force of walking infantry (plus guns and AT) who do the hard work and a mobile force that aims for more distant objectives. I usually also have 2 and sometimes 3 strat bombers who neutralise cities when they don't have other jobs to do. Even if the hex is occupied, neutralising it temporarily blocks spawning so you mainly face scripted reinforcements.
MaxF
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Re: Exaggerated AI reinforcements

Post by MaxF »

dragos wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:36 pm Playing DLC, you have probably noticed that towards the end of a scenario, in an enemy held town, the AI will start buying units, usually spamming the most expensive unit it can buy.
Playing GC42 East, I have just witnessed the AI buying 5 (FIVE!) KV-1 tanks around a town. Fortunately I was able to end the scenario one turn later.
Besides feeling artificial, if you cannot end the scenario quickly, it can ruin the entire play. There is no way your worn and battered units can stand such a formidable force once they start moving towards one of objectives.
I hope in Panzer Corps 2 AI reinforcements will be handled differently.
I think you talk about Escape Stalingrad:
Image

5 KV-1C appear all of a sudden around that village. You shall ignore them, run away or set a defence line. (I didn't try to get the village preemptiveli, as I tried to do it, the KV-1 appeared).

But usually AI does NOT buy the most expensive units available: gets AA/AT and Arty usually. So your planes are useless in the end. Your arty cannot bomb entrenched victory hexes and AA at the same time, and Arty if it's there. The only solution is lots of Pioneers, which I dont take with me, and which would hardly be ready in the frontline in the end, as you approach the most far objectives with tanks and other fast units.
The next "great DLC campaign" I will take with me Pioneers with halftracks (a quite expensive combo).
dragos
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Re: Exaggerated AI reinforcements

Post by dragos »

No, it was Harkov'42. And I also remember something similar in Vitebsk scenario. It was clearly not scripted, the Soviet AI likes to buy KV tanks the same as Poland buys tankettes in 1939 DLC. Maybe it's because difficulty has 150% AI prestige, but it doesn't feel right anyway.
rubyjuno
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Re: Exaggerated AI reinforcements

Post by rubyjuno »

I've noticed that throughout the Eastern Front campaign the AI often spawns extra AA and AT units as you approach an important objective. These are almost always backed up by artillery and it is a great strategy by the AI as it pretty much covers all bases, requiring a careful assault to conquer. As I've moved through the years, I've sometimes been confidently advancing only to see a trio of KVs appear round a town/city in front of me. A bit of a leveller if you've been getting ahead of yourself. I enjoy surprises like this as it ensures a continued challenge.
Kirby
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Re: Exaggerated AI reinforcements

Post by Kirby »

The AI has, just like the player, a certain pool of prestige to burn through. Sometimes it reinforces important targets, sometimes it does the "KV spam" as seen above, sometimes both. All of these make the player's task harder, which is the point of the whole thing.
I've just ran Kiev 43 and the AI was purchasing T-34/85s around the victory hex it captured on the outskirts of Kiev itself (so, close to the front) as it was starting to run low on units.
To put it into player's terms, as the AI loses units and gains more open core unit slots, it tries to fill them up. Nothing exaggerated, the player can do the same thing. The only difference is that a player doesn't let that happen.

No matter what strategy the AI applies, it should not prevent you from winning. Perhaps it's merely annoying if it happens around a flag that yields a capturable unit.
Loamshire
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Re: Exaggerated AI reinforcements

Post by Loamshire »

In my custom games the AI often picks from its reinforcement rota the unit with most fire-power and defense and then buy's them on-masse, often creating an unrealistic feel to a scenario. I soon stopped that by creating fluctuations in the "available to and from" dates, and for example at times giving the AI no choice but to buy only emergency conscript infantry, then a few turns later only a certain lower grade type of tank that the AI, given free choice, would always overlook in favour of the best tank type on its rota. This method combined with fluctuating the AI's prestige prevents a game getting filled with only high grade units. Viva la modding.
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