Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

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Panzerpimp
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Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by Panzerpimp » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:11 pm

Recently I decided to revisit the Allied Corps first time playing on Rommel settings. I am having a blast.
So I want to ask fellow panzer corps players - what is their favourite advanced difficulty and why?
Guderian, Manstein, Rommel? Or maybe the ultimate difficulty?

In my opinion Guderian and Rommel are the most enjoyable, Manstein is crazy and ultimate is near impossible.

What do you think?
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fgiannet
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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by fgiannet » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:31 am

I think it depends on the campaign. It also depends on your goal for your overall experience (how difficult do you want the experience to be as well as how often do you expect triumphs).

Allied Corps is great for Rommel. It is a grind and you have to be careful about your resources. I think it creates a great historical model (units gain experience quickly, the army has good but not limitless resources) and the British should be expected to gain experience relatively quickly due to good training and education. Rommel forces you to choose who to upgrade during the difficult periods. You can use historically accurate forces if you are very careful.

Field Marshal seems great for Soviet Corps because they have a lot of resources but experience/training can be an issue (but historical as well). The units do not become experts quickly but you have the resources to over strengthen to keep them around longer and have no issues upgrading a great hero to some of the best equipment available. I have played Soviet Corps on Field Marshall using multiple historical configurations and have had great fun each and every time (of course I have a general idea about the enemies strength for each scenario as well). Their equipment is some of the best and you do not need an army of IS-2s to be successful. I do lose hero’s throughout the campaign but it makes me think about what people have to go through in life through no fault of their own (you are born somewhere, get drafted, fight bravely, and die without ever really having much of a choice in the matter).

The American Corps is the toughest one to pin down for me. Rommel seems to be too much (again I am using historically accurate forces) as I eventually reach a point where I only have enough prestige to use elite replacements and can not buy new equipment. If I do not use elite reinforcements and buy new equipment instead I will eventually have an army without enough experience to engage the enemy (the enemy will shot first even with mass attack, they will do way more damage, etc.). Field Marshal is fine but the games starts to get really tiring towards the end of 1944 unless you keep the hero’s they give you (Audie Murphy, etc.). I have played through using only historical units, skipping battles that they haven’t participated in (thank you Slitherine for releasing the cheat codes for iPad) and taking my units straight to France from Sicily. They were successful even though they missed out on a lot of experience going up the Italian boot. It is tough though, I do enjoy the American Campaign more one step down from Field Marshal (which, by 1944 at the latest, they should be gaining experience pretty quickly....they were getting rid of non performing officers very, very quickly by then).

Do you see a difference between the campaigns in regard to difficulty levels and have you ever raised the difficulty level until the game was not fun for you any more?

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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by Panzerpimp » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:40 am

fgiannet wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:31 am
have you ever raised the difficulty level until the game was not fun for you any more?
Yes, I have. I play without reloads, so it is important for me to have a possibility for small mistakes and blunders. When the game becomes unplayable for me without using save/load - it is definitely too much. So the ultimate difficulty is too difficult. Manstein is also not fun for me, feels "artificial" with the obvious advantage for the AI.
fgiannet wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:31 am
Do you see a difference between the campaigns in regard to difficulty levels
Yes, for me the different campaigns themselves vary in challenge. In the original game (without mods) I consider the Soviet campaign the easiest. Soviet core is a bit overpowered (Heavy tanks and AT units are unkillable, flamethrower tanks easily clear infantry) and there is enough prestige. Maybe someday I'll revisit this campaign playing on Manstein.

Afrika Korps is the hardest for me with any difficulty level. Winning path in the campaign is tough and losing path is tougher. You can make the campaign even harder with the italian challenge.

US Corps I played through once, enjoyed it very much. Also quite challenging campaign. I think it is the best in terms of gameplay and difficulty balance. The american core is also seems to be balanced well - not overpowered or artificially weak. I think I will revisit this campaign on Rommel, playing different campaign path. Maybe it will be too much for me - the late scenarios are really hard.
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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by fgiannet » Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:46 am

I agree with your perspective on difficulty. The difficulty is too high if I have to reload. I also want triumphs to require exceptional effort as well. The game seems to be setup that way at times. A triumph might have your troops take an objective before it happened historically. A minor victory sometimes corresponds more with reality.

There is a special feature in the American campaign that, I think, reverses the soft cap. You wind up getting more prestige for playing more expensive forces. This is an important consideration if you want to play on Rommel difficulty. Could explain why I was always so chronically short of prestige because I was deploying mostly infantry (the Big Red One) with M-3s Tank Destroyers for the entire campaign (with an occasional Combat Command from the 1st AD). I believe that is how the soft cap works in the US campaign but others would know more.

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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by goose_2 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:56 pm

I am enjoying this discussion. I agree with so much that has already been said.

I am playing at insane difficulty's on my channel.

But have found them doable.

I played at Field Marshall along with Rommel difficulty level for my Blind US Corp Campaign, and found it to be too difficult especially when I got to later scenarios.

My most enjoyable and still is a sandbox that I find myself missing is my Double Rommel playthrough on Afrika Corps. I played with further restrictions of no more than 2 of any kind of unit, and only able to purchase Italian units. "Graziani mode" I believe it is called.

I loved Africa Corps so very much, and am still considering going back and trying Ultimate at some point. (I wonder what it is about those scenarios that I find so very enjoyable. I feel they are the best scenarios in the entire game, and I know I am not the only one. They just feel so exciting and dynamic.)

I am currently playing the following campaigns:

Soviet Corps at Double Field Marshall: This campaign was fun at first, but as it is getting later in the war I am finding it way too easy, even with all the additional restrictions I am trying to place on myself, including no more than 2 of any single unit, and 1 now of any tank unit. Staying within soft cap.
Still I am able to dominate the maps, and sometimes even pull off map wipes. I feel Soviet Corps in many ways broke the balance of the game, and tipped the game heavily in favor of the Soviets. IMHO.

Sealion on Double Rommel:
This is super fun and is I think the difficulty level I was born to play. The tight prestige really makes every decision on when and how to spend money crucial, especially for long term gameplay. I am trying all paths, but got stuck on Minehead as well I don't want to spoil anything. ;)

Grand Campaign on Ultimate Difficulty
I started this playthrough as a lark, almost as a dare based on some fans of my channel and people on the forum. I was thinking there is no way this could continue, but I have since then been joined by Braccada as well as Richard Martin. We have found that this playthrough is not only doable but oftentimes has a key for achieving Decisive Victorys despite this insane difficulty. I am trying for all scenarios, and am preparing for a go at Leningrad. Not sure a Decisive is possible but I will try. I find these scenarios to be like a puzzle and you need to save each day and playthrough each day as if you are trying to figure out the correct layout and combination to move to the next day. I find it difficult but doable, surprisingly.

I also have several other playthroughs on my channel, including the tail end of 45 West at Guderian, and 45 East on Manstein, and a few other games as well as Panzer Corps MP.

Thanks for the discussion and sharing your thoughts.
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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by dalfrede » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:28 pm

I made one attempt at Manstein, I lost an infantry in the first scenario and decided it wasn't for me.
I then tried the 80% solution - 80% prestige, AI +2 Strength, -2 turns.

I think this is the best solution. Increment up the difficulty to were it is difficult, but doable.
As you get better, increment difficulty again.
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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by Panzerpimp » Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:24 pm

goose_2 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:56 pm
Double Rommel playthrough on Afrika Corps. "Graziani mode" I believe it is called.
I loved Africa Corps so very much, and am still considering going back and trying Ultimate at some point. I feel they are the best scenarios in the entire game.
I feel the same. For me the best are the US corps and Afrika Corps. Scenario design is superb in those.
I would gladly watch your ultimate playthrough of the AK (with italian units only, of course). :)
goose_2 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:56 pm
Still I am able to dominate the maps, and sometimes even pull off map wipes. I feel Soviet Corps in many ways broke the balance of the game, and tipped the game heavily in favor of the Soviets. IMHO.
Agreed. SC is an interesting camapaign (the maps and the ideas behind them are really nice, captured units are fun), but the Soviet core in my opinion is not balanced well for the scenarios. (Or the scenarios are not suited for the powerful core?) At some point you will easily crush everything with overpowered tanks. It never happens in the US corps or AK. The prestige rewards are also perhaps too generous. :?:
goose_2 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:56 pm
Sealion on Double Rommel:
This is super fun and is I think the difficulty level I was born to play.
Sealion is a "cursed" campaign for me at the moment. I really like the idea of this campaign and the maps. I started it about three or four times, then something happens and I have to stop playing It. Now I started It again and I am watching your Sealion videos. They are nice. Liked your "Cliffs of Dover" video. The thing is I followed the same path in the campaign and had a big blunder during the landing at Dover. Got a marginal victory, very close to decisive, but lost 5 core units. I think I will continue the campaign anyway. Want to finish It this time.
goose_2 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:56 pm
Grand Campaign on Ultimate Difficulty
I tried It on ultimate, but the later years are too much for me. I really want to try the GC East on Rommel starting it on 1942 without importing of my core. Maybe It will also be too difficult. :?:
Now I am enjoying the Allied corps on Rommel using the British equipment only. At Tunisia now and everything seems fine.
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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by fgiannet » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:13 am

It is fascinating to me how a person’s experience can grow with the game. My first play through was much like everyone else I imagine. I used whatever units worked, enjoyed the history presented, and did not think much about it afterward (with a few instances of deleting the game and swearing I would never waste my time with it again).

Later, I came back to it, and started doing historical setups because that is what interests me. This led me to research history, learn, and model the campaigns in different ways. Then I learned how to use the different units to better effect. This taught me even more about history. I would rather make the game easier in order to use a historical setup because that is how I enjoy the game.

On the other end of the spectrum you have Goose_2 setting his difficulty to....I don’t know, just ridiculous levels. He wants it to be a puzzle with little to no margin of error. Awesome man, go get them (I’ll watch from over here.....). How can one game be two totally different enjoyable experiences for it’s players is really beyond my comprehension. I do not know if I have seen that before. Certainly the old Panzer General, which is often invoked, did not come near to this (I used to play Allied General without using whole classes of units, Infantry was useless regardless of terrain, etc.). I love the Total War series but it was not as adaptable. It has different factions but you wind up using their strengths the same way. I have done some interesting things in the old Imperialism games but you generally wind up doing the same things to win. Panzer Corps is different.

This really is a simple straightforward game but it contains incredible depth and opportunities for enjoyment when you focus on it.

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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by goose_2 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:54 am

fgiannet wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:13 am
It is fascinating to me how a person’s experience can grow with the game. My first play through was much like everyone else I imagine. I used whatever units worked, enjoyed the history presented, and did not think much about it afterward (with a few instances of deleting the game and swearing I would never waste my time with it again).

Later, I came back to it, and started doing historical setups because that is what interests me. This led me to research history, learn, and model the campaigns in different ways. Then I learned how to use the different units to better effect. This taught me even more about history. I would rather make the game easier in order to use a historical setup because that is how I enjoy the game.

On the other end of the spectrum you have Goose_2 setting his difficulty to....I don’t know, just ridiculous levels. He wants it to be a puzzle with little to no margin of error. Awesome man, go get them (I’ll watch from over here.....). How can one game be two totally different enjoyable experiences for it’s players is really beyond my comprehension. I do not know if I have seen that before. Certainly the old Panzer General, which is often invoked, did not come near to this (I used to play Allied General without using whole classes of units, Infantry was useless regardless of terrain, etc.). I love the Total War series but it was not as adaptable. It has different factions but you wind up using their strengths the same way. I have done some interesting things in the old Imperialism games but you generally wind up doing the same things to win. Panzer Corps is different.

This really is a simple straightforward game but it contains incredible depth and opportunities for enjoyment when you focus on it.
I agree with every word of this. In fact it made me laugh out loud. I keep coming up with more ways to play this game, it amazes me as I have never had a game singly hold my attention for this long a span ever. I never get bored with it even after almost 6 years of playing, what game does that?
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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by goose_2 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:58 am

Panzerpimp wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:24 pm
goose_2 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:56 pm
Still I am able to dominate the maps, and sometimes even pull off map wipes. I feel Soviet Corps in many ways broke the balance of the game, and tipped the game heavily in favor of the Soviets. IMHO.
Agreed. SC is an interesting camapaign (the maps and the ideas behind them are really nice, captured units are fun), but the Soviet core in my opinion is not balanced well for the scenarios. (Or the scenarios are not suited for the powerful core?) At some point you will easily crush everything with overpowered tanks. It never happens in the US corps or AK. The prestige rewards are also perhaps too generous. :?:

There is much to Soviet Corps that I like, the exit hexes, the set up and different objectives. The Scenarios are unexpected in their details and Objectives, but the units and their overpowering nature are a killer for me. I am using unit diversity to the extreme, and still find the scenarios easy. Blind should be a killer for me, SC, is not that way.
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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by fgiannet » Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:42 am

Well I am sure you both belong in the “Elite Tier” in terms of ability/intelligence. I have bounced around the forums for nearly two years now, without having an account, and I am not sure that is the average player’s opinion on Soviet Corps. I think it is a good challenge, I would consider myself an average player, when played on Field Marshal and with historical forces. I can generally get triumphs from Korsun onwards but I don’t ever remember wiping the screen (much less while deploying a massive mix of equipment......Holy Crow that is impressive! :lol: ).

It brings up some subtle points about making a hex based war game. The Soviet equipment is good for the GC because we are using things like Mass Attack and attacking with our force concentrated which the computer does not. Giving the Soviet tanks high initiative is necessary in order to keep them dangerous. High initiative is not historical for most Soviet forces for a number of reasons (lack of radios, smaller crews, tactics that concentrated fire instead of focusing on multiple targets simultaneously, etc.) but their tanks did have good armor and fire power. Maybe the initiative/ammunition should have been lowered for when we switched sides (in which case our Soviet forces would be getting blasted even when employing mass attacks, etc.).

Maybe the science of a hex based game prevents you from using the same equipment when you switch sides? Again, the old PG series would eventually have units that were so powerful (it’s a game, this has to happen as sure as the ghosts move faster in higher levels of Pac-Man) there was very little you could about them (in my experience). PC has come so far in fixing that problem with close combat initiative rules, the experience bonus for antitank guns, etc. It is amazing. Maybe you do have to take an extra step and actually tweak the units when switching sides.... The science of the model is what intrigues me. I never would have thought a hex based game could encompass so many tactical parameters.

Or maybe SC is a fine challenge as is and you guys are just strategy masochists! :P :P Yeah, maybe that! To paraphrase the late great George Carlin; “People who are playing at a lower difficulty than me are rank amateurs, people playing at a higher level are masochists!” Ha, ha, ha. I alone am the sane one playing at just the right level.....ha,ha,ha

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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by Panzerpimp » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:05 pm

Hello again. I am really enjoying this discussion. Continue to advance in my AC Rommel campaign. Now I'm at the Anzio Landings playing the British only without reloads, everything goes well. ( 9 Triumphs and 2 core units lost, have a lot of prestige) :)
fgiannet wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:13 am
Later, I came back to it, and started doing historical setups because that is what interests me.
Yes, historical setups are also nice. Using the historical divisions and creating your core after the real force. I consider It a special challenge. I played the Grand campaign West this way. It was interesting but this way I had to accept losses a few times and move on.
fgiannet wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:13 am
Certainly the old Panzer General, which is often invoked, did not come near to this
I enjoyed playing the mods for the old Panzer General. It was a nice challenge. For example, I remember the Kaiser general mod and Austria/Hungary WWI mod. Super hard, historically correct and balanced in difficulty.
fgiannet wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:13 am
the old Imperialism games
Oh yeah, I remember those, they were great. :!: (Still are)
fgiannet wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:13 am
This really is a simple straightforward game but it contains incredible depth and opportunities for enjoyment when you focus on it
goose_2 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:54 am
it amazes me as I have never had a game singly hold my attention for this long a span ever
Well, for me Panzer Corps is the best game in the known universe. :D (8 years and I am still playing It) The rules are simple, but the game is hard. It's like chess but better. Winning decisively is super hard. Replayability is also great. A ton of scenarios and campaigns, great mods and the scenario editor. It is also quite easy to modify equipment files - so you can create new campaigns and challenges easily.
goose_2 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:58 am
There is much to Soviet Corps that I like, the exit hexes, the set up and different objectives.
You should try the Alternate Grand Campaign mod. It has exit hexes, different objectives and really crazy maps. You are also playing It with a really small core. I think you'll like It.
fgiannet wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:42 am
just strategy masochists!
For the strategy masochists I can offer the "GC Cavalry challenge" - play the Grand campaign from 1939 using only the cavalry and artillery. (I tried It and was crushed in 1942 :lol: :lol: :lol: )
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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by Panzerpimp » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:19 pm

goose_2 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:58 am
Blind should be a killer for me, SC, is not that way.
Blind campaigns are the most enjoyable for me. I noticed that i lose the interest in the game when I know the map or the triggers in a scenario perfectly. For example, It was a special enjoyment to be surprised by the AI's counter-attack with Tigers in the US Corps - one shot kills, tons of casualties, panic mode. :mrgreen:
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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by captainjack » Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:59 am

I agree with dalfrede's view that it's good to try out different difficulty and pick one that suits you. I mainly play to unwind rather than to give my self a true test of skill and determination, so about 70% prestige and experience, or +1 strength is about right as I have to think too hard above that. At the moment, with lots of additional stress f I'm playing Nico's MPC on 80% prestige and experience with +AI level 2, getting a good challenge and thoroughly enjoying it.

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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by captainjack » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:25 am

The cavalry challenge just sounds way too tempting (anyone remember My Little Pony Cavalry Commander?)

I have horse transport enabled, so I can try only units that use horse movement. That should include up to 105mm guns, 50mm AT and probably a 20 or 37mm AA. Maybe I'd better mod in the horsedrawn twin mg AA unit or a tachanka. At least there should be tons of prestige for reinforcements as everything will be cheap as chips.
The slightly easier version would be eco warrior challenge with no motorised land or air units and with horse transport enabled. Can somebody check if the Kriegsmarine used oars or solar power,?

Edit. I have added SE cavalry and disabled any SE that don't have horse drawn options, and kept in my horse drawn SE AT units for a bit of variety.
Did you use any gift/captured/auxiliary units in the scenario you got them?

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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by Panzerpimp » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:37 pm

captainjack wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:25 am
The cavalry challenge just sounds way too tempting
captainjack wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:25 am
Did you use any gift/captured/auxiliary units in the scenario you got them?
I set the following rules for myself:

- Vanilla game without mods.
- General difficulty, normal dice, no reloads.
- I can use Cavalry, mobile artillery and the mobile AA.
- Core SE units/ gift/ captured that aren't cavalry, artillery or AA are disbanded. Any auxiliary units may be used in the scenario.

I had a lot of fun and the core looked cute with all the horses. :)
Another variation of this challenge is the "Biker core challenge" - same rules, but with Kradschutzen instead of the cavalry.
With a modded equipment file (horse transports etc.) you can have a lot more variety in the core.
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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by captainjack » Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:33 am

I'm playing Nico's DLCs so got to purchase what I wanted at the start of 39.
In the first scenario, I had an epic battle against a tankette with three weakened cavalry units a 37 AA gun (for blocking) and a 75mm gun. The tankette lost, but it was quite close for a moment. Bring on the 7TPs! Madness, but fun madness.

I'm thinking of making it slightly easier (?) by converting all the auxiliary, special gift units and captured units to horse drawn or to cavalry, and maybe adding in the tachanka as an SP artillery/ SPAA switchable unit. So I'll have captured french cavalry in place of Char B1 Bis, a superfast Oleh Dir who never runs out of petrol and Kirscher on a horse. I haven't quite worked out how to handle Rudel - probably a more mobile high spotting cavalry with reduced attack stats, but this time I sent him away because the aircraft noise was frightening the horses.

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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by Panzerpimp » Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:53 pm

captainjack wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:33 am
In the first scenario, I had an epic battle against a tankette with three weakened cavalry units
Yeah, sounds familiar. Those tankettes are quite annoying. Sometimes you just can't kill them. :?
Cavalry is fast and has the advatnages of an infantry unit, so I usually could outmaneuver the armor and lure It into close terrain.
Cavalry core was overall viable with the support of mobile Artillery and AA, I enjoyed deploying It.
captainjack wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:33 am
I'm thinking of making it slightly easier (?) by converting all the auxiliary, special gift units and captured units to horse drawn or to cavalry, and maybe adding in the tachanka as an SP artillery/ SPAA switchable unit. So I'll have captured french cavalry in place of Char B1 Bis
Sounds great. Tachanka I would like to see.
Actually very interesting ideas for a new mod - "Cavalry equipment challenge mod" or something like that. :)
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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by captainjack » Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:56 am

I should finish editing the 39 scenarios this week.
I need to do a quick update of the equipment files and icons to bar motorised se units, add the tachanka/ horse drawn aa and tidy up a couple of captured units that don't currently allow horse transport (eg captured polish artillery in Warsaw).

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Re: Your favourite advanced difficulty settings?

Post by goose_2 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:57 am

You guys are crazy with this Cavalry challenge, but quite amusing
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