Page 1 of 2

Most Difficult Level

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 6:24 pm
by goose_2
I wish I could set up a voting thingy to this post, but I do not know how to do that.

Ultimate Difficulty is of course the most difficult as it factors in all the other difficulty levels but I have heard some people argue that the most difficult difficulty level is Field Marshall or it is Manstein, but what do you all say?

The 4 difficulty levels
Field Marshall 50% experience
Guderian 5 Less turns
Manstein ai has 5 Extra Strength
Rommel 50% Prestige

Well in my opinion the easiest of these 4 is Rommel.

There are so many ways to earn prestige and often a player can end up with way more prestige than they even know what to do with. (This is why I love Double Rommel as this made every bit of prestige precious)

The next easiest, for me, is Field Marshall. I am in 41 on Ultimate Difficulty and most of my core units are or are close to their maximum experience. I know that 5th star is difficult to get on Field Marshall but not necessary to play the game. That First star is still relatively easy to acquire, and 3 stars is plenty to make your units tough.

The runner up for difficulty for me is Guderian. Losing 5 turns is the thing that keeps me so often from achieving map wipe or even a Decisive Victory. That speed run requires taking each day like a puzzle in order to break the game, so this is the runner up.

This makes Manstein the most difficult imho because this 5 extra strength points on the enemy makes each attack from the enemy potentially devastating. I am running into the problem of trying to prepare for Streets of Moscow and those darn T-34/41's with 1 star have no fear of my overstrengthened Pz3H's so I am going to try upgrading to the Pz3J in hopes that they back off. This makes Manstein the most difficult to break a scenario.


But what are your thoughts?

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 8:34 pm
by dalfrede
Guderian is problematical.
A pure defensive scenario is easier on Guderian[Piatek].
Early US Corps are all 12 turns. Pulling out 5 [19.5%] is a big deal.
In AC 'Italian Offensive' a DV is impossible because the timed withdraws exceed the reduced turn count.

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:17 pm
by goose_2
dalfrede wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 8:34 pm
Guderian is problematical.
A pure defensive scenario is easier on Guderian[Piatek].
Early US Corps are all 12 turns. Pulling out 5 [19.5%] is a big deal.
In AC 'Italian Offensive' a DV is impossible because the timed withdraws exceed the reduced turn count.
So would you say Guderian is the most difficult? Because that is the one that keeps me from getting Decisive Victories so often on Ultimate difficulty

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 10:09 pm
by dalfrede
goose_2 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:17 pm
So would you say Guderian is the most difficult?
It has the most uneven effect. :mrgreen:

Manstein has a constant pressure. Which makes it the hardest.

Rommel is almost a style issue. If you play with the 'correct' style it isn't hard, just disciplined.
In PzC2 people have figured out the new capture mechanic and claim it is too easy to get prestige.

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 12:05 pm
by PeteMitchell
I think you need to contact Slitherine to run a survey on the forum... However, I played around a bit, here is a quick makeshift survey, maybe it can help:


Survey page (the results will show after submitting the survey) - maybe best to open with right click to open a new tab
https://eSurv.org?u=MostDifficultLevel

Please note, different difficulty levels can be evaluated as equally difficult or easy (i.e. no full ranking of 1 to 5 is required).
In addition, this is an untracked survey, i.e. it could be taken multiple times by the same person / from the same device.


Results page (shows the results without taking the survey) - maybe best to open with right click to open a new tab
https://eSurv.org/results-overview.php? ... 7f5&mode=4

I hope the results page makes some sense, i.e. the values there are the percentages of the people that for example rated Ultimate as very difficult... :mrgreen:
I can share the absolute numbers as well later if required. The total column to the very right is not needed but I don't know how to remove it... :lol:


Any feedback is welcome but I am not sure I will be able to improve it much... (due to my limitations and the limitations of the page) :oops:

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 9:48 pm
by goose_2
PeteMitchell wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:05 pm
I think you need to contact Slitherine to run a survey on the forum... However, I played around a bit, here is a quick makeshift survey, maybe it can help:


Survey page (the results will show after submitting the survey) - maybe best to open with right click to open a new tab
https://eSurv.org?u=MostDifficultLevel

Please note, different difficulty levels can be evaluated as equally difficult or easy (i.e. no full ranking of 1 to 5 is required).
In addition, this is an untracked survey, i.e. it could be taken multiple times by the same person / from the same device.


Results page (shows the results without taking the survey) - maybe best to open with right click to open a new tab
https://eSurv.org/results-overview.php? ... 7f5&mode=4

I hope the results page makes some sense, i.e. the values there are the percentages of the people that for example rated Ultimate as very difficult... :mrgreen:
I can share the absolute numbers as well later if required. The total column to the very right is not needed but I don't know how to remove it... :lol:


Any feedback is welcome but I am not sure I will be able to improve it much... (due to my limitations and the limitations of the page) :oops:
Thanks Pete 7 votes already which is impressive as you just set this up.

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 8:27 pm
by Panzerpimp
Apart from the ultimate difficulty I guess It's Manstein for me. AI units just become too tough and crush me. (Sometimes with dreadful one shot kills) Guderian is also very hard for me, but I am trying to master It. Some scenarios give you too much turns and some are almost impossible to complete on time, It's complicated. :)

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 6:23 am
by Erasermarek
I cant imagine fight hordes of Russians Conscript and SMG unit with 20 or 16-17 points in street of Stalingrad. -5 turn is hard but still Manstein looks for me too OP.

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 7:39 am
by PeteMitchell
I think people work a lot with (separate,) surround, suppress, surrender in these situations... requires some effort but less fighting resources)

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:48 pm
by PeteMitchell
It seems like not too many people play at these difficulty levels then?! ;)

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:05 am
by TSPC37730
I really think it depends on the scenario in question. And to some extent the play style of the individual. So, you will get different answers.

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:20 pm
by PanzerCro
Guderian seems the hardest, but my impression is that it's easier to play on Guderian in GC's rather than Vanilla.

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:14 pm
by jeffoot77
and the 4 difficulties together ?

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:09 am
by goose_2
jeffoot77 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:14 pm
and the 4 difficulties together ?
That is known as Ultimate difficulty...

Well based on my latest post of Sealion at Double Rommel, I think the most difficult level hands down is none of the challenges I have detailed, but the most difficult challenge is and always will be blind.

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:25 am
by Ursulet
I am doing 43 blind and i can confirm. After 5 years i have forgotten the map and i am struggling on map 1 .

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:24 am
by goose_2
Ursulet wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:25 am
I am doing 43 blind and i can confirm. After 5 years i have forgotten the map and i am struggling on map 1 .
Credit to you for building from a weakened army from the difficulty level you were playing at the preceding years

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:08 pm
by TSPC37730
goose_2 wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:09 am
Well based on my latest post of Sealion at Double Rommel, I think the most difficult level hands down is none of the challenges I have detailed, but the most difficult challenge is and always will be blind.
Indeed.

Knowing what's coming, where and when is a huge advantage. Playing blind forces you to be either overly cautious or overly risky, which can be very painful when it doesn't work out your way. The next best thing is playing a human opponent, who can create similar uncertainties.

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:41 pm
by goose_2
TSPC37730 wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:08 pm
goose_2 wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:09 am
Well based on my latest post of Sealion at Double Rommel, I think the most difficult level hands down is none of the challenges I have detailed, but the most difficult challenge is and always will be blind.
Indeed.

Knowing what's coming, where and when is a huge advantage. Playing blind forces you to be either overly cautious or overly risky, which can be very painful when it doesn't work out your way. The next best thing is playing a human opponent, who can create similar uncertainties.
That is why mp is my bread and butter, or at least it used to be. As of late I have been extremely frustrated because the game will give me an extra day...I hate that it is like the game begging me to cheat. I wish the bugs on mp would have been fixed on pc1 before they moved onto pc2. I really hope the bugs have been worked out on the PC2 so that legitimate tournaments can be set up.

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:51 pm
by PeteMitchell
What do you mean by "extra day"?

Re: Most Difficult Level

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:46 pm
by goose_2
Oh Pete it is crazy. I will play my turn and finish my turn. The game does it's thinking thing and them when mp comes up again. The scenario is still there as if my opponent instantly played their turn. I pull up the scenario, and the game gives me another turn without giving my opponent a chance to play their counterattack. So I just end turn again because for me to play another turn would be cheating. It bugs me to no end, but I don't know what else to do