Ambush Behavior

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Kerensky
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Ambush Behavior

Post by Kerensky » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:55 am

Rudankort wrote: Indeed, the game does not trigger ambush if defending unit cannot attack our unit in the first place. This allows many weaker units (with zero or very small attack ratings) to void combat. Otherwise, ambushes could be exploited to have 2 attacks per turn: you do a normal attack, then move to a hex where enemy unit supposedly is. If enemy unit is weak enough, the second combat would still be in your favor, even with some ambush penalties in place.
I understand the logic. You want to protect an infantry unit loaded in a truck transport against a Panzer IVH who gets 'ambushed' but actually stomps all over the poor transport. I just see this as prone to abuse, and I can just imagine the complaining in Head to Head matches now: "What do you mean my 88mm FlaK gun didn't ambush his Sherman, he blundered right into me?!"

I think there's a better way to avoid abuse of 2 attacks per turn.
A unit fires, then moves. It moves into a hex occupied by another unit. Because the unit fired once, the unit gains an attribute called "Can't Attack" that overwrites any attack value.
The combat log would now look like this, remember this bug?
Image

So, the possible scenarios:
Unit is ambushed by half track transport, but has not fired yet. Unit engages in normal ambush, even if it means the 'ambushing' unit is inferior (transport vs tank).
Why? Because if a King Tiger blunders unexpectedly into a convoy of trucks, he's gonna #$%^ all over them, not stop and scratch his head.
Unit has already fired, and then is ambushed by a half track transport, the unit engages in an ambush situation, but is not allowed to attack. The ambushing unit basically gets free shots at no risk to itself.

So you can have positive ambushes (but why would someone save and load cheat to get a positive ambush when they could just stop adjacent to the unit and attack normally???) but you are not allowed to abuse the system and get 2 offensive attacks in a single turn. As I demonstrated in the save file from the bug thread, this is currently possible to do. Especially when a destroyer 'ambushes' a cruiser or battleship(lol).
Last edited by Kerensky on Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:04 am, edited 3 times in total.

Kerensky
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Post by Kerensky » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:56 am

By the way, not a game bug, but I just realized I can post new threads as stickies (I used this thread as an example, this topic is not worthy of a sticky). I don't think I should be able to do that.

Rudankort
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Post by Rudankort » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:54 am

Thinking out loud: on the first glance what you suggest is logical, but this would also mean an ambushed unit with no attack action left won't be able to defend itself any more. We already has severe penalties for ambushed unit, but this might be too much?

Kerensky
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Post by Kerensky » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:04 am

If a player makes a conscious decision to take a risk and enter fog of war blindly, opting to either not buy recon units or send them elsewhere, they deserve whatever they have coming.
There's a reason you just don't send exhausted, battle weary, and expensive tanks down a narrow city street all by themselves.

I mean, what stopped them from just playing it safe and moving to the edge of their sight range. The game didn't force them to use all their movement.

That's my opinion.

Oh, and it won't be able to defend itself if it somehow initiates another engagement, but it will still be able to normally defend itself during the enemy turn. Clicking the 'end turn' button will clear the 'Can't attack' attribute from all of the player's units.

AceDuceTrey
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Post by AceDuceTrey » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:55 pm

This discussion highlights a problem I had with maneuver (movement). I reclassified all my armored fighting vehicles to Recon (class2) and strongly recommend any new versions of PC give all class 1 units multiple movement capability. This way they could simulate "bounding overwatch" which is the normal way forward deployed units move when contact with the enemy is expected/probable. Single movement restrictions should only apply to TOWED class 3 (AT) and all class 4 and 5 artillery/AA (they reposition to new firing positions).

AceDuceTrey
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Post by AceDuceTrey » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:56 pm

This discussion highlights a problem I had with maneuver (movement). I reclassified all my armored fighting vehicles to Recon (class2) and strongly recommend any new versions of PC give all class 1 units multiple movement capability. This way they could simulate "bounding overwatch" which is the normal way forward deployed units move when contact with the enemy is expected/probable. Single movement restrictions should only apply to TOWED class 3 (AT) and all class 4 and 5 artillery/AA (they reposition to new firing positions).

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Post by Tarrak » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:24 pm

AceDuceTrey wrote:This discussion highlights a problem I had with maneuver (movement). I reclassified all my armored fighting vehicles to Recon (class2) and strongly recommend any new versions of PC give all class 1 units multiple movement capability. This way they could simulate "bounding overwatch" which is the normal way forward deployed units move when contact with the enemy is expected/probable. Single movement restrictions should only apply to TOWED class 3 (AT) and all class 4 and 5 artillery/AA (they reposition to new firing positions).
This makes the already quite weak recon units totally pointless. I strongly recommend against it. :P

AceDuceTrey
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Re: Ambush Behavior

Post by AceDuceTrey » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:00 pm

Not sure I totally agree. The recon units spot further (3 vs. 2), and have superior movement and less cost than their equivalent turreted tanks.
I.e., compare the 233 to the MkIVD or the 234/2 to the MkIIIH.

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