Feedback on 1941 Campaign

Open beta forum.

Moderators: Slitherine Core, The Lordz, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design

Happycat
Strategic Command 3 Moderator
Strategic Command 3 Moderator
Posts: 750
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:57 am
Location: Riverview NB Canada

Post by Happycat » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:19 pm

I have played this campaign twice now, up to and including the Minsk scenario. First time at Sgt level, 2nd time at Colonel. The difference between the two levels is quite noticeable and in the case of the Colonel level, as tough as one would hope. I can only imagine what the higher levels may be like :)

The airfields are not too difficult to capture, and I did not see any serious air opposition from the Reds. In historical terms, this is as it should be. A couple of times I stumbled into armour or anti-tank units, but overall it was not too hard to achieve all objectives at either level. I'm torn now, because I just received the email about the next demo patch. I guess I will start over again, but I am curious to see the rest of the campaign too.

Overall, I think you guys have done a great job with this game. When I first started work on this project way back when (what was it, January, February?) I didn't expect much more than seeing something similar to Panzer General with a new coat of paint perhaps. But this game is already so much more now, and I have no doubt that it will continue to evolve in a positive way. Well done!
Chance favours the prepared mind.

Taiko
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:27 pm

Post by Taiko » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:01 pm

I'm starting my second run through of the campaign. A couple of quick thoughts, and after the next run through will post more comments. Apologies if these have been posted before.

1. Experience seems to ramp up too quickly before it slows down. This is more related to starting from '39 with a core before you get into the '41 campaign. It is fairly easy to get units up to 13 experience, even captured units.

2. Now that there are detailed objectives (and instructions) in each of the scenarios, it would be nice to have a hotkey to bring back up the briefing screen (if possible). This brings up a question, more cosmetic, whether objectives in the future could be labelled somehow on the map (particularly the strategic map), rather than moving the cursor around hexes and seeing what comes up in the hex labels on the side panel.

3. I don't know if I am really a fan of the captured units. It seems a bit unrealistic to be able to swap that KV-1 for a Panzer IVF, via upgrades. While I am aware that certain captured equipment was pressed into service, only some modifications were done historically, as opposed to getting a whole new unit via upgrade.

kashor73
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:50 am

Heroes/Experience

Post by kashor73 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:15 pm

At the end of the 41 campaign, from a default start these following units had each acquired a single hero in my playthrough, virtually all giving a +1 bonus.

1 x FW190 (+2 def)
1x JU87
1x Me109
6x PzIV
3X PzIII

This seems like a reasonable amount of heroes for a run of 9 scenarios, airborne units have developed slower, but are at less risk in general compared to a front line Panzer. I assume a force imported from 39/40 will have a number of heroes already present while not having as many overstrength units, so this is one reason to keep the starting core strong for the start scenario.

The experience cap is slightly annoying but probably unavoidable for these campaign structures.

mrgolf
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:31 am

Post by mrgolf » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:31 am

My last post said I was in the Crete (airborne) scenario and not having too much trouble with any scenarios getting decisive victories at the colonel level. I guess I spoke too soon/jinxed myself. I came within 1 hex of a decisive victory, with a 1 strength unit holding the furthermost eastern victory hex. I also lost a ton of units, just like the Germans did, and started the first Russian scenario (Minsk?) 13 core units down! I had so few units left that I knew this scenario was hopeless unless I cheated and gave myself enough prestige points to rebuild these 13 missing units. Even doing that, I barely got a decisive victory in this and successive scenarios through Novgorod so far. I am giving mysef enough additional prestige to replace the few units I am losing, but I don't think I have affected the balance as it is still a struggle every time to get a decisive victory. Everything is going smoothly (no bugs), but I do have a complaint about the scenario that bypasses Leningrad. I could have easily had a decisive victory, but I could not determine exactly where this sector A was to put at least 5 artillery pieces. I spread them out pretty well, just below the victory hexes south of Leningrad, but I still didn't get them positioned right. Where in the hell is sector A?!

Kerensky
Content Designer
Content Designer
Posts: 5753
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 am

Post by Kerensky » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:20 am

mrgolf wrote:My last post said I was in the Crete (airborne) scenario and not having too much trouble with any scenarios getting decisive victories at the colonel level. I guess I spoke too soon/jinxed myself. I came within 1 hex of a decisive victory, with a 1 strength unit holding the furthermost eastern victory hex. I also lost a ton of units, just like the Germans did, and started the first Russian scenario (Minsk?) 13 core units down! I had so few units left that I knew this scenario was hopeless unless I cheated and gave myself enough prestige points to rebuild these 13 missing units. Even doing that, I barely got a decisive victory in this and successive scenarios through Novgorod so far. I am giving mysef enough additional prestige to replace the few units I am losing, but I don't think I have affected the balance as it is still a struggle every time to get a decisive victory. Everything is going smoothly (no bugs), but I do have a complaint about the scenario that bypasses Leningrad. I could have easily had a decisive victory, but I could not determine exactly where this sector A was to put at least 5 artillery pieces. I spread them out pretty well, just below the victory hexes south of Leningrad, but I still didn't get them positioned right. Where in the hell is sector A?!
Saving this quote next time someone complains prestige is too tight....

Couple quick responses.

I admire your tenacity to continue the fight, that is a lot of core units lost! :(
And quite honestly, you have probably the best answer to your problem. You use cheats to prop yourself up back so the game is fun for you. That's what they are there for, not just for god mode.
Although, I might recommend lowing your difficulty setting a notch, and maybe going for marginal victories instead of pushing your troops so hard for those decisive victories. :)

As for Sector A, these are the fortification hexes with victory hex markings. We're still hoping to get for better art to display this (and similar objectives), so stay tuned.
In the mean time to find out exactly what a Sector A artillery zone in, mouse over the hex in question, and then look at the hex string (name of the hex) on the information panel on the right side of the screen (directly below the grid of 9 buttons)

dthomas561
Corporal - Strongpoint
Corporal - Strongpoint
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:08 pm

Post by dthomas561 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:32 pm

* How hard did you find the scenarios? Too easy, too hard or just right? They would be just right according to selected difficulty level
* Were your scenario objectives clear enough - we're there any areas that were confusing or needed mroe explanation? They were all clear enough * How far in to the game did you get? to the end at Demyansk
* When posting any gameplay feedback let us know the difficulty setting you were using. I was using the general level
* Did you feel like you had enough presitge, too little or too much? I seemed a bit out numbered and thought I could use a bit more prestige to offset.
* Did you enjoy the scenario briefings? Is there anything they could have explained better or done differently to improve the atmosphere? These were good
* Did you like the "special scenario objectives" mixed in with the standard victory hex grabbing missions, or do you prefer purely just going after victory hexes? I REALLY liked the mix in AND the capture of units when other hexes were taken
* Did the AI perform well in the missions? Were there any scenarios that the AI underperformed - Most of the time the AI was great except at Demyansk...why didn't the AI attack more forcfully from the west? I had my hands full with the east but because there was little to no attack from the west Ipulled units away and blocked the east. It wasn't until the end when I viewed the battlefield I was shocked at how many russian units didn't engage. * Hero and medal aquisition have been slowed down for the extended campaign. Did the progression feel right? yes.
* Do you find the experience cap on units annoying? Yes, I personally don't like the caps but I adjust.
* Do you have a favourite mission and if so what is it you like about it. Similarly are there any missions you didn't enjoy and why. I liked them all with no favorite...it was a good mix of offense and defense according to the actual time period in history.

dthomas561
Corporal - Strongpoint
Corporal - Strongpoint
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:08 pm

lack of AI attacks

Post by dthomas561 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:41 pm

Also did find two bugs....first one is often times I would stumble on an anti aircraft gun and it never even took a shot at me. I found this at various times in all of the scenarios. Sometimes AA shot and other times nothing. I checked the weather, range and watched to see if it was just me not taking casualties but no it just never fired.
Second, I stumbled into an ambush and my tank was down to a 1 strength and I figured it was gone, however no AI unit attacked even though there were 3 units capable of taking it out. The next turn I retreated and brought it back to strength...but figured there should have at least benn an attack. This is at general level in the Leningrad scenario.

AgentX
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 381
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:38 pm

Re: lack of AI attacks

Post by AgentX » Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:12 pm

dthomas561 wrote:Also did find two bugs....first one is often times I would stumble on an anti aircraft gun and it never even took a shot at me. I found this at various times in all of the scenarios. Sometimes AA shot and other times nothing. I checked the weather, range and watched to see if it was just me not taking casualties but no it just never fired.
Second, I stumbled into an ambush and my tank was down to a 1 strength and I figured it was gone, however no AI unit attacked even though there were 3 units capable of taking it out. The next turn I retreated and brought it back to strength...but figured there should have at least benn an attack. This is at general level in the Leningrad scenario.
Was your air unit within spotting range of the AA? AA only has a spotting range of 1, so they need another unit to spot you if you are two or more hexes away. If they can't spot you, they can't shoot at you.
Panzer Corps Beta Tester

pickle
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:45 am

Crete-airborne option

Post by pickle » Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:36 pm

I have to agree with one of the earlier posts that the airborne invasion option as it stands needs to be tweaked or changed. In particular, airlanding of heavy weapons (i.e. armour) should not be allowed. It is far too easy to place artillery/armour and quickly roll over the Allied defenders. Armour etc., at least in my opinion, should be restricted to seaborne invasion only forcing these units to brave the destroyers/cruisers of the British with the screen of Italian ships. I found it too easy with landing armour/artillery to quickly achieve a decisive. Just my opinion....

pickle
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:45 am

Post by pickle » Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:38 pm

P.S....I have been playing on 'General' level.

produit
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 296
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:15 pm

Post by produit » Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:09 pm

* How hard did you find the scenarios? Too easy, too hard or just right?
OK, I played at colonel level. I could enjoy to go a bit farther.
* Were your scenario objectives clear enough - we're there any areas that were confusing or needed mroe explanation?
Everything is ok.
* How far in to the game did you get?
To the end, through the Kiev Area
* When posting any gameplay feedback let us know the difficulty setting you were using.
* Did you feel like you had enough presitge, too little or too much?
Going through the 39 and 40 campaign, I started with something like 7'000 prestige. I finished the last scenario with more than 8'000 prestige. Thus, I can say that it is clearly sufficient. I could more or less use always the best material and have my units always at maximum size. I could perhaps play another time at a higher difficulty.
* Did you enjoy the scenario briefings? Is there anything they could have explained better or done differently to improve the atmosphere?
OK for me. It is not the most important part for me.
* Did you like the "special scenario objectives" mixed in with the standard victory hex grabbing missions, or do you prefer purely just going after victory hexes?
Interesting. What was also interesting was having the possibility to do more than the objectives, like emptying Kiev three times (Zhitomir, Zhurivka and Zolotonosha).
* Did the AI perform well in the missions? Were there any scenarios that the AI underperformed
Yes, you have to play really careful. If I thought that the AI could do something nasty, it will do it. On the other hand, I think that sometimes, the AI could be more aggressive, such as during the last scenario (Demyansk Pocket), where more than 50% of the enemy units are just sitting around, letting me to cut them into pieces, one wave at a time.
* Hero and medal aquisition have been slowed down for the extended campaign. Did the progression feel right?
OK, nothing to complain.
* Do you find the experience cap on units annoying?
A bit, the fact is that the cap was 325 for the 40 DLC and 375 for the 41 DLC. It is just that you cannot even gain a star during the whole campaign, even if a lot of my units were already at 3 stars at the beginning. A cap of one star for the 39 DLC, two for the 40 DLC and three for the 41 DLC could have been better.
* Do you have a favourite mission and if so what is it you like about it. Similarly are there any missions you didn't enjoy and why.
I really enjoyed the streets of Moscow. I had to rely on a lot of artillery (6x 21cm and 4x Wurfrahmen 40) and a lot of infantry, and advance slowly and really carefully, always thinking of counter-attack. It is changing from the other scenarios, where fast movement enveloping is the key.

* Other remarks:
- I agree with others concerning the Crete airborne scenario. It is strange to be able to "deploy" tanks and heavy artillery. However, without artillery support and tanks, the scenario would be really hard.
- Tank capture. It is nice to capture units, but is it not a bit too much ? At the end of the three DLCs, I have captured 7 Soviet tanks, 3 French tanks, 1 English tank and 1 Polish artillery. 7 captured units, is it not a bit too much for a unique DLC ? I have finished the 41 DLC with 18 tanks. More than 50% of my tanks are captured, it is a lot... Could it be other advantages to capture special hex, such as winning experience, a medal or a hero ? Or perhaps other kind of units ? I have for now clearly enough cores (52).

* Bugs
In the Vyazma scenario, there is a plane outside of the map (60th Yakovlev). It is a bit strange.

Taiko
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:27 pm

Post by Taiko » Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:40 pm

Agree with the post above on the high frequency of captures.

One simple fix, I guess, is lower the chance. It might be more "realistic" (albeit abstracting perhaps a touchy subject) to require a core unit to guard the captured unit until the end of scenario in order to receive the unit, or, if a decision is made not to guard the unit, it is considered destroyed and lost.

If you go down that path, in some encirclement scenarios, maybe there could be a requirement to guard enemy units (including infantry) as simulating allocation of resources to deal with prisoners.

Razz1
Panzer Corps Moderator
Panzer Corps Moderator
Posts: 3307
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:49 am
Location: USA

Re: lack of AI attacks

Post by Razz1 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:41 pm

AgentX wrote:
dthomas561 wrote:Also did find two bugs....first one is often times I would stumble on an anti aircraft gun and it never even took a shot at me. I found this at various times in all of the scenarios. Sometimes AA shot and other times nothing. I checked the weather, range and watched to see if it was just me not taking casualties but no it just never fired.
Second, I stumbled into an ambush and my tank was down to a 1 strength and I figured it was gone, however no AI unit attacked even though there were 3 units capable of taking it out. The next turn I retreated and brought it back to strength...but figured there should have at least benn an attack. This is at general level in the Leningrad scenario.
Was your air unit within spotting range of the AA? AA only has a spotting range of 1, so they need another unit to spot you if you are two or more hexes away. If they can't spot you, they can't shoot at you.
Ambush depends upon how many movement points are left for the AI from the previous move and whether it fired or not. Also depends upon weather conditions.

It is listed on the forum somewhere.

I see ambushes not firing quite often.

produit
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 296
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:15 pm

Frozen swamps

Post by produit » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:36 am

Perhaps another comment concerning frozen swamps. During the last scenario (Demyansk Pocket), I was surprised that combat (it seems) in frozen swamps hexes are considered as "closed combat". I understand that swamp in the summer are not so good for tanks, but during winter (frozen), is it not better to consider them like plains ?

deadtorius
General - Elite King Tiger
General - Elite King Tiger
Posts: 4173
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:41 am

Post by deadtorius » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:37 am

frozen swamp still has water and mud under the ice, not a great place for a heavy vehicle that breaks through the ice now is it?

Kerensky
Content Designer
Content Designer
Posts: 5753
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 am

Post by Kerensky » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:36 am

produit wrote:
* Bugs
In the Vyazma scenario, there is a plane outside of the map (60th Yakovlev). It is a bit strange.
Good catch! Will be fixed. :)

produit
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 296
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:15 pm

Post by produit » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:46 am

deadtorius wrote:frozen swamp still has water and mud under the ice, not a great place for a heavy vehicle that breaks through the ice now is it?
If you can go through rivers and lake, I don't think you risk more going through swamps...

Dalinski
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:30 am

Post by Dalinski » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:26 pm

Smolensk.

Played on average difficulty.

I really enjoyed this scenario and wasn’t expecting much from it at all. It is after all just a Victory hex grab. However the scenario seemed to balance goals by first forcing your force to cross a moderately challenging river barrier with strong tank counterattacks beyond it. It kept you entertained with sporadic counter attacks as you moved beyond it. A fairly well coordinated air strike with previously unseen Yak-1’s caused some concern and decimated an unescorted Stuka wing.

As Panzers of my northern force were refuelling I sent a sent a loan tank on a recce mission. It was met by a brutal T-34 counter attack and surprisingly cut off by a group of Anti tank guns. The anti-tank gun seemed to specifically move behind my Panzer Group in an effort to stop it retreating back in my own turn. Unable to retreat and with my Luftwaffe occupied by the Yak’s this Panzer group was destroyed easily next turn with the help of some cavalry. Ivan!

Vitebsk and the other southern city proved to be poorly defended lulling you into a false sense of security as we encounter a strong defensive line of dug in infantry and Katyusha before Smolensk. The Luftwaffe easily dealt with these as they were unsupported by air defensives. At Smolensk itself we spent some 3 turns taking the city, its defending KV tank group didn’t stand much of a chance against the convergence of my 3 spearheads.

I lost an Infantry unit, destroyed by the 3 tank counterattack as you cross the initial river. A Panzer before Vitebsk as it was cut off by the Anti group. Almost lost a Pz. Jager which is fairly typical (:-)) and a Stuka from an unexpected air offensive mid scenario.

Despite the losses meeting the objectives was fairly easy. I’d recommend adding two bridges across the large river to the south of Smolensk just before the Katyushas and having the Russians mount a T-26 counter attack (these tanks aren’t actually that bad). I don’t like how this large space of the map is unused and adding a sense of foreboding to that area would add to the suspense. Maybe even add a row of heavy artillery pieces beyond the river to snipe at us Germans as we march triumphantly by. This won’t give too much of a head ache unless you aren’t prepared for it and they hit you in the rear. Also add a light artillery piece to the Russian counter attack on the southern city to give you a little more cause for concern. Also add a single Air Defence unit to cover the Katyusha’s.

I’d hate to play this one on harder difficulty levels although it would be manageable to meet the objectives.


Bug maybe: I found that my Pioneer never dug in beyond 3 entrenchment in the southern city. They were not being attacked, stayed there for 6 odd turns. They had a few Russian milling around them though :-).

greg1863
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:44 am

Post by greg1863 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:02 am

I have only played the Belgrade scenario so far. I really liked it. Probably has too much prestige. While I found the scenario challenging, it was not because I didn't have enough prestige. I sat around 2000 prestige points throughout.

When I reached the victory conditions, I had to cycle through to turn 18 before the game announced the victory, rather than immediately cutting to the victory screen.

So far, so good. Keep up the great work!

kjeld111
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:53 am

Post by kjeld111 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:14 pm

I don’t like how this large space of the map is unused and adding a sense of foreboding to that area would add to the suspense.
Well, if this is the area I am thinking about (east of Mogilev, south of Smolensk on the other side of the Dnepr), it is a completely optional area as far as DV/MV objectives are concerned, but not a pointless one either. There's a challenge to be found there, and maybe a reward if you are persistent. :wink:

Post Reply

Return to “Panzer Corps Open Beta”