DLC 43 Kharkov

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mhadina
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by mhadina » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:04 am

awaltering wrote:Default start, no imports from earlier campaigns. Admitting that I am not a hardcore player it was a very tough call. I made quite easy progress in the first few turns, advanced to quickly and got heavily beaten by the russian counterattacks. Gave up in turn 17 with all russian officers safe but no chance to conquer all objectives. So highly motivated, I´ll give it another try.
Same here.
I agree with all.

Longasc
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by Longasc » Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:13 pm

The second beta version of Kharkov is a hot candidate for many of us to test/play again. :)

I would like to see if the ~doubled Prestige alone doesn't do it already and if a few extra aux units are really needed. But let's see, for now I am still in Orel and in the first run.

tmgiles1
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by tmgiles1 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:03 pm

So, I start off with the pre built core on Colonel difficulty. I proceed with a straight forward attack with the eastern forces defending the Donets and the western forces moving forward toward Kharkov. It was not to difficult defending the Donets, although I lost a Pz. III N and a Pz. IV G early.

The map is large, and the core is enormous, but after playing a while I became familiar with both and I think it is a good mix, especially with the division of the forces and the different objectives. I do think some Aux units, SE or otherwise would be great. Here’s what happened to me:

I kept my SE unit in sector A until turn 5 and then decided he was wasting time and moved him north with some arty to take Mashivka, Krasnohrad, and the airfield. Since there were no Russian units or cities behind me, I moved the SE unit forward to help take Vodolaha and Kharkov. Then, on turn 10, with my nearest unit 15 hexes away, two T-34s and two Russian infantry units show up at Sector A and destroy my captured officer unit and threaten my (totally undefended) rear lines.

I probably need to readjust my strategy and leave more units to defend rear areas, but I have no idea where these units came from. Anyway, I think I can still get a marginal victory, but I’m going to restart after that on LT. difficulty because I burned a lot of prestige in this game. At my playing ability, I don’t think I will get far into the game on Col. Level without using cheat codes, and I’d like to play it regularly. So, the scenario is not too hard, but for me, it cost a lot (even using a fair amount of non-elite replacements) and there is where I have trouble. Maybe it’s meant that way so you have to play it several times to advance, but, anyway I’m still going to lower the difficulty.

Zhivago
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by Zhivago » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:25 pm

I replayed Kharkov 43 on General level. Having experienced the surprise in my first game playing at the Colonel level of Russian paratroopers suddenly popping out of the extreme lower left quadrant of the map to the west of the A-sector, this time I left a recon unit and a captured KV-1 tank, and a captured SU-122 in that area to counter that threat. I was surprised to see that no Soviet forces ever emerged from that corner for the entire game. I at least expected the paratroopers to appear, but none did. I think this rear-attack was a good element to the scenario and it should be preserved (and should occur even if units are being kept on guard in the vicinity).

El_Condoro
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by El_Condoro » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:48 am

Colonel level 18/20 DV. Standard core.

I didn't find this too difficult but was taken by surprise a couple of times. The AI really needs to learn how to scout! How many times can an 88 on a bridge get ambushes?

billmv44
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by billmv44 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:24 pm

El_Condoro wrote:Colonel level 18/20 DV. Standard core.

I didn't find this too difficult but was taken by surprise a couple of times. The AI really needs to learn how to scout! How many times can an 88 on a bridge get ambushes?
I noticed that too. The AI seems to have no memory of the ambush. I can understand if the unit is 100% destroyed by the ambush, it might not get a message off to HQ. Unless the AI is thinking "This time for sure..." Of course the Russians were known for their repeated frontal assaults, so maybe this behavior does mimic correctly the doctrine the Russian's used at that time.
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MusseMus
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by MusseMus » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:56 pm

Tested Kharkov43 in beta 2 now and fund a minor A-sector bug still in place: placing the third captured officer on the A-sector city hex Pereshchepyne (7,24) does not seem to trigger major victory.

Kerensky
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by Kerensky » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:02 pm

I just tested this... again... and I had no trouble with it. Are you sure you had at least 3 officers AND all victory hexes occupied?

This is how Sector A looked when I received my Decisive Victory.
Image

MusseMus
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by MusseMus » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:06 am

I just tested this... again... and I had no trouble with it. Are you sure you had at least 3 officers AND all victory hexes occupied?
Yes, all the victory hexes was occupied. Not until I took one of the officers down one hex from the city hex the DV triggered.
Here I have 4 officers, but one is outside of the A-zone. No DV trigger. When leaving the other 3 in the same hexes and moving the one in the city down a hex it triggers:
No-Trigger-A-small.gif
No-Trigger-A-small.gif (160.45 KiB) Viewed 4682 times

pickle
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by pickle » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:21 am

Second time through on the new build...for whatever reason, it seemed easier. Started with core from '42 and 3200 prestige. Upgraded two tanks to Tiger I's and got rest up to strength. Got a bonus SE tank too. Upon thinking about it, having a full roster of units is great help as defense can be made along the Donets while the offensive towards Kharkov continues without being weakened. Again, strong start and a challenging scenario.

OmegaMan1
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by OmegaMan1 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:41 am

Yes, all the victory hexes was occupied. Not until I took one of the officers down one hex from the city hex the DV triggered.
Kerensky, I can confirm this same event happened to me the first time I finished the Kharkov scenario (under the first build, I think I mentioned it in my AAR on the scenario). I'm about to finish my new game under the beta 2 build, and I'll check and see if this happens again under the new build.

El_Condoro
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by El_Condoro » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:12 am

Is it possible to have the saved turn made available to download? Like others, I have checked the victory conditions and there seems no reason why the DV should not be triggered. The Zone 20 that is used to trigger it is actually larger than the "A" markers that are visible and should make it even easier to trigger.

MusseMus
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by MusseMus » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:17 am

It IS possible I've made an error and accidently loaded the first turn from a save made in the beta 1 version… maybe this is why the DV don’t trigger? I will give it another go and make totally sure I start beta 2 fresh.

MusseMus
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by MusseMus » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:54 pm

Tried it once more and this time the DV triggered as supposed to! I guess last time I've made the mistake of using an old save. I'm very sorry for this!

ptje63
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by ptje63 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:53 pm

Kharkov 1943 AAR
Had a go at Kharkov '43, with GLC42 core imported, first time, level Field Marshall with reduced player prestige setting - decided to partly go against advice of crossing the Donets. Split up forces in three main thrusts: used my slow and +def units to cross while frozen and at least get rid of the some AA and both BridgeInf units in the east, also being able to retreat when attacked.
Russian attack started as soon as winter was gone and did catch some of my units trying to conquer Severodonetsk and its airport. I was only able to escape without losing core units due to combination of luck and strategic withdrawel. Used 2 tow art, 1 Tiger/Pz.IVG, 1 stugB/G, 2 inf and 1 AA, with 1 Stuka+2 fighters.
Cleared left flank attack with a Tiger with +1mov hero+Pz.IVG and StugHart support and a recon.
Center - rest: recon with 233 and +spot fighter/tanks - careful attack when possible, regroup/rearm when needed.
Only carefull planning needed with Soviet-attack in south-east - no core units lost.
Four BA-recon returned to A-hexes and an SU-122 enemy units caught…

Onto Belgorod

rickj13
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by rickj13 » Tue May 24, 2016 10:10 pm

how do you capture the soviet officers?

captainjack
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by captainjack » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:16 am

There are five (possibly six) cities which generate a soviet officer unit after you take them.
You should get a message when you get the unit.
I can't remember which cities, but you'll find out next time you play.

dutmistrz
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by dutmistrz » Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:08 pm

Hello all,

the scenario is a tough one although manageable - especially because of presence of Tiger tanks, which are quite invincible compared to KV-1C or T34/41 tanks.

The armor and aircraft on Soviet side are a particular threat - the amount of steel to be wrecked sometimes makes you worry, especially if it is for the flanks. I didn't clear my left flank accordingly and thus two T-34 and two regulars sliped pass towards my starting objective. Rudel (9A10D1M1S - an absolute scorcher) , another Stuka 87D, Panzer IV, SiG and Gbjaeger managed to destory the sortie, but it slowed down my progress.

Around turn 9-11 a powerful counter attack from the east bank on right flank was experinced, neraly rounded up my force there but Stukas and capt KV-1 along with Stug IIIG and some infantry contaned the Soviet plague.

I made a tactic to move along the river without crossing it before Kharkov is taken, two officers caught already. The sunny and dry days which turned the map green were a blessing - no more surprise raids by Russian tanks through Donets river experienced (on frozen ground the situation looked a bit worse). Didn't lose any units yet due to cautious approach - I always back my infantry with artillery so that counterattacks fell apart - this tactique worked wonders in Stalingrad scenarios, where most dangerous units is the wretched SMG and Guards infantry. Also the applied tactic enables to drag out more valuable forces of Soviets from the east river bank and destroy them where they tack arty support and air defence.

I also experimented a bit with StuH 42 (awesome infantry knock out skills) and Stug IIIG - nice TD but lacks punch against KV-1's and even T-34 when they are experienced.

Tigers - these mobile forts are great for gaining ground without much risk of casualties for now (wonder how it will compare to IS-2 tanks). And despite the fact that they are not mobile enough, it does not matter as it enables infantry and arty to maintain the fighting array.

I generally go thought the entire Grand campaign from 39' once more (first time ended in 44 but didn't know how to play properly, so decided to start once more with expereince gained) and I tell you - this game is replyable as hell and can always surprise you (usually it will be a sad surprise).

skr1107
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Re: DLC 43 Kharkov

Post by skr1107 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:16 am

Decisive Victory turn 17, fun scenario, counterattacks keep you on your toes..reinforcement wise I bought Tiger 1's and rocket half tracks..epic.

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