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DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:03 pm
by charonjr
Korsun Breakout - Manstein - imported core (very heavy core)

Starting with 37.1k prestige.

After dealing with the hill with the help of lots of artillery Taine was taken at turn 8.

Kalnybolota and Rozkishna (captured KV-85 there) fell at turn 10, only the center/SW left to worry about (unless another wave activates in the already conquered area).

And right at the end of turn 11 a new wave is coming in from the east forcing me to fight a heavy defensive action, but since a couple of my Me 410s were still in range no serious damage was done.

Towards the end it looked more like the Soviets being caught in a pocket than the other way around.

Uman fell at turn 14 as well as Khrystynivka - only Novoarkhanhelsk remained in Soviet hands at this point.

The last Soviet unit was destroyed at turn 17 (except for 3 AT guns as I learned later), DV at 18/20 with 38.1k prestige. After selling the KV-85 and using elite reinforements 37.2k prestige are left, so effectivly even a gain of 0.1k.

From what I have seen I dare to say that it does not make any sense to continue with this core from hell since even on Manstein I doubt that there will be any real challenges here. So in order to provide more meaningfull feedback I will restart DLC '44 with the prebuild core.

I think I will continue with this core when I have spare time since I think that there should be feedback for cores like this as well, but getting the basics right seems more important than worrying about such exotic cores.

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:02 pm
by produit
Continuing with my preset core, FM.

I was not able to upgrade and overstrength all the units I wanted. The gain for the DV at the Korsun Pocket was not so huge.
As a result, I was really short on prestige, nearly 0 at start. As a result, I was able to reinforce units, only when I captured the first units.

Finished with capturing every city and a KV 85, DV at turn 20, final prestige 445.

This scenario was really difficult for two reasons:
- Limited prestige
- Mud (on turn 4,5,6,7,8,9 and 15). Advancing with the mud was a pain.

I am beginning to really like the Stug IV. The fact that by default it is a AT is interesting. If you want more artillery, you can exchange the Stug IIIG for Stug IV. The result is impressive to deal a lot of damage to enemy tanks.

Air supremacy was not too difficult to achieve as I deployed my whole air armada (5 FW190, 2 Me410).

I liked a lot the combat in the center. Going through masses of tanks and enemy units was enjoyable. On a logical point of view, moving on the side of the map is perhaps too easy. In the end, you should have to move in the gap in the center between two enemy armies, not move through those armies or bypassing them on the sides.

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:50 pm
by monkspider
Korsun Breakout
starting prestige 1100
after prestige/overstrengh 25
Ending prestige 219
DV on turn 19

This was an excellent scenario, and I think did an excellent job of depicting the desperate nature of the "Hells Gate" breakout. My prestige situation was nearly unbearable, I was awarded a scant 1000 prestige at the start of this battle. Seriously, 1000? You are killing me here Kerensky. :) Although I lost no units outright, my losses were ghastly and much higher than the previous Korsun scenario. Towards the end of the battle I had few combat-ready units still at my disposal.

I did manage to finally break through and reach the escape zone on the penultimate turn. This one was very difficult, but given the historical context, I would recommend no changes. I would even say it is probably one of the A-tier scenarios of the Panzer Campaigns series. Well done, Herr Scenario Designer.

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:59 pm
by charonjr
Rommel - pre-build core

Got a SE Panther D here which will come in handy here.

Used selective replacements (all bombers/artillery overstrengthend to the max, rest got normal replacements).

After downgrading the 12.8cm Flak back to 8.8cm, turning 2 StuG IIIG into IVs, upgrading all fighters to FW 190A, turning the SE Pz IIIM into a Tiger I and the Pz IIIN and IVG into Tigers as well and finally buying 2 more Me 410A I am left with 17 prestige.

Due to the lack of prestige I sold the Luchs, the 8.8cm PaK and the Marder IIIM for about 0.9k prestige and bought another Hummel and a Wurfrahmen, leaving me with about 0.1k prestige, but way less artillery/bombers than I usually prefer.

This one wasn't pretty, basically I made a run for it - forcing my way through the Soviet waves while keeping my weaker units guarded. In the end I just made it when the turn 14 wave started and this one would have hurt since a fair number of my units were already pretty damaged. Knowing the map already did help here, too - I dare to say otherwise I might have lost some units.

DV at 14/20 with 0.5k prestige. After repairs I am not sure if this will have been a gain or a loss, but it was far from easy with the pre-made core.

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:10 pm
by Kerensky
monkspider wrote:Korsun Breakout
starting prestige 1100
after prestige/overstrengh 25
Ending prestige 219
DV on turn 19

This was an excellent scenario, and I think did an excellent job of depicting the desperate nature of the "Hells Gate" breakout. My prestige situation was nearly unbearable, I was awarded a scant 1000 prestige at the start of this battle. Seriously, 1000? You are killing me here Kerensky. :) Although I lost no units outright, my losses were ghastly and much higher than the previous Korsun scenario. Towards the end of the battle I had few combat-ready units still at my disposal.

I did manage to finally break through and reach the escape zone on the penultimate turn. This one was very difficult, but given the historical context, I would recommend no changes. I would even say it is probably one of the A-tier scenarios of the Panzer Campaigns series. Well done, Herr Scenario Designer.
Yup that's right. Decisive victory for Korsun Pocket only rewards 1000 prestige, according to the campaign file.
BUT technically you are actually get 5000 prestige. Each supply carrier you escort with worth 1000 prestige, and you do need to have at least 4 escorted to gain a decisive victory. Thus, 5000 prestige.

What you did with the 6000 prestige the pre-made CORE beings with and the 5000 you earned from playing Korsun Pocket is anyone's guess. :P

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:15 pm
by charonjr
Are you sure that the escort prestige is actually awarded?

I escorted 5 since I moved some units from the airfields and am fairly sure that I had way less than 5k (no repairs during the scenario).

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:20 pm
by charonjr
Just took a look again, started Korsun Pocket with 3k prestige and ended with 4.6k prestige - no repairs and conquered everything except 4 minor cities and an airfield.

edit: 5.1k at the start of Korsun Breakout before any repairs as well.

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:21 pm
by Kerensky
Prestige is effected by difficulty settings.

You said 'Rommel' so you're getting 50%. Which explains your starting 3000 and your only getting 500 per transport escorted into the pocket.

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:23 pm
by charonjr
Yes, but 5x500 + 3000 initial + 500 for DV should be 6k - or am I missing something in the calculation?

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:27 pm
by Kerensky
Only 4 transports not 5.

Also you are re-capturing flags.

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:47 pm
by charonjr
Well, I did escort 5 of them, but even with 4 shouldn't it be 5.5k+?

I looks like a couple of transports actually did not count.

Took a look at an early and a late game save: It seems that moving the supplies off the airfields is causing the problems. Basically I got no reward for every transport other than the first one and when I moved the other 4 supplies back to the airfields.

Turn 4: 3650 prestige with 1 supply at the airfield.
Turn 14 (end of turn): 4 supplies down (to the side of the airfields) with the 5th above another airfield - 4000 prestige - no repairs during the scenario. The +350 prestige must be from captured flags, only the first and the last transport did count. 3k start + 1000 for 2 transports + 600 total for flags + 500 for DV = 5.1k.

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:01 am
by billmv44
Playing on General with the DLC core continuing from the 1942 beta testing. The initial briefing was very helpful in deploying my forces. I had no major troubles in taking the hill. A hard fought battle against Ivan and the miserable weather. Mud, mud and more mud. I was getting concerned about being able to get enough forces into the safety zone. I made it but it was close. DV on turn 17. An enjoyable scenario - no issues. I will say that I absolutely hate those mobile AA guns the Russians have. They seem to turn up at the worst time. Not only do I have to protect my Ju-87Gs from enemy fighters but I have always be on the look out for those pests. I suppose that's just how the Stuka pilots felt. Overall, very well done.

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:10 am
by El_Condoro
charonjr wrote:Well, I did escort 5 of them, but even with 4 shouldn't it be 5.5k+?

I looks like a couple of transports actually did not count.

Took a look at an early and a late game save: It seems that moving the supplies off the airfields is causing the problems. Basically I got no reward for every transport other than the first one and when I moved the other 4 supplies back to the airfields.

Turn 4: 3650 prestige with 1 supply at the airfield.
Turn 14 (end of turn): 4 supplies down (to the side of the airfields) with the 5th above another airfield - 4000 prestige - no repairs during the scenario. The +350 prestige must be from captured flags, only the first and the last transport did count. 3k start + 1000 for 2 transports + 600 total for flags + 500 for DV = 5.1k.
The awards for the transports are set up so that they accumulate (1000 for transports at zone > 0, then > 1, then >2, then >3). This will be negated if a player removes any of the transports from an airfield. I think the airfield should each get a zone and the awards be given when a transport is over each one. Unless the goal is a simultaneous drop, in which case that should be explained in the briefing.

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:29 am
by charonjr
Yes, a comment about the supplies/aircraft having to stay there would be helpfull.

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:38 am
by produit
charonjr wrote:Yes, a comment about the supplies/aircraft having to stay there would be helpfull.
+1
We are in the wrong thread, but I missed also completely the fact that supplies/aircrafts need to stay on the airfield.

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:04 am
by Kerensky
Why would anyone move supplies off the airfield though? :?

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:19 am
by charonjr
In order to play beyond turn 11 and gain more XP/kills/flags ;)

This can be done by not moving the final transport to an airfield as well, but players should be told.

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:21 pm
by produit
Kerensky wrote:Why would anyone move supplies off the airfield though? :?
- Putting them in forest for protection against the North-West attack.
- I move them to the North-East to cross the river and capture town/airfields.
In the end, they are still infantry units, quite able to combat with a strength of 15...

Another option would be to create a new unit, unable to move, to represent supplies. Bunkers could perhaps be used for that, no ? As soon as you deploy them on the airfield, they will no more be able to move...

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:25 pm
by Kerensky
My concern with that idea is what happens when someone lands in the wrong location? Such as a non-objective airfield? They would need to be able to move their unit out of there, and making it a unit immobile once landed would break this.
I suppose it makes sense to move them for protection though, that's a valid reason not to leave them sitting around. I'll cut down the 15 strength too, seeing as no one is having problems with the Soviet Air Force. Wouldn't hurt for an extra line of text to explain it either.

Re: DLC '44 #2: Korsun Breakout

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:46 am
by monkspider
Odd, I can say that I in no way received 5k prestige for the transports. I think I know the glitch though. I wasn't paying much attention to them, and four of them piled up in the corner so I took all four to the airfield on the same turn, and then the scenario ended. I think it is associated with the same glitch that prevents you from getting captured units if you capture them on the last turn.