DLC '44 #10: Vilna

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VPaulus
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DLC '44 #10: Vilna

Post by VPaulus » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:44 pm

Please post here your comments about this scenario.

produit
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Re: DLC '44 #10: Vilna

Post by produit » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:27 pm

FM, preset core, chess mode.
DV 30/30, could have finished on turn 18.
Ending prestige 23072.

I really liked the map. With so much place, it seems to me that I was a firefighter. I tried to keep the whole front, and was clearly surprise by the attack on the southern part of the map. With so many units in front of me and a reduced number of units on my side as I tried to maintain the whole front occupied, I really had ammunition's problem. With partisans everywhere, it is like you have to be everywhere !!

A small comment, I deployed some units in the back cities and the partisans were ambushed as they tried to enter the cities. A lot of them were easily killed that way.

Concerning the prestige, as I am nearly never attacked, it does not cost me a lot in repairing. I was also able to replace sub-optimal equipment to increase effectiveness of my troop (changing some artillery to Wurfrahmen, for mobility and destruction power). I am really flowing in prestige, as the income of 300 per turn in FM means 9000 in total. That is quite a lot. The problem with prestige is: no prestige means no top equipment, meaning more losses and in the end, more prestige to be invested for repairing. Likewise, elite reinforcement cost a lot, but in the end, 3 stars tigers II mean no loss on your side for every battle in the open. In close combat area, you just need 1-2 StuG IV to soften the unit, but you can really achieve no loss. In the end, having a lot of prestige means keeping the upper hand. On the other side, lack of it means that the situation will always worsen, as the real German army...

Enemy aviation was well equipped, meaning that I have sometime to attack with 5 airplanes to have a sufficient initiative to result in no loss on my side. But as planes come 1 or 2 at a time, you can easily kill them.

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Re: DLC '44 #10: Vilna

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:45 pm

The thought of 30 turns is daunting. I usually finish in 2/3 the time so we will see if this pans out. Playing on COL level for every game, I feel adequately equipped. I hate having to chose a small portion of the core but that makes it interesting. It helps when the scenario gives you hints. However, I find that air, arty, and armor are the best combo with little AA and recon thrrown in. Infantry is just too vulnerable. Perhaps the later infantry should have better tank killing/defense. I am 6 turns in and thought I had blunted the first wave but then a 2d wave showed in the south. Unit live have almost been lost as ammo and fuel runs dry. This makes it fun!

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Re: DLC '44 #10: Vilna

Post by monkspider » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:44 pm

Vilna
Starting prestige 6200
After upgrades 200
Ending prestige 3500
Marginal victory turn 30/30
Losses 2x Recon and 1xFallschirmjager

This was truly a MASSIVE map, and a long battle too. I had enough prestige, combined with my light losses in the previous battle to overstrength, upgrade a STuG to a jagdpather, a KV to a Tiger I, and a couple SE Panzer IIIs to Tigers. I purchased a couple recon cars though both to a fairly quick death over the course of the battle.

This was an excellent scenario, the Soviet assault was truly relentless, I couldn't believe how many waves of troops I had to destroy, and the Red Airforce really gave my Luftwaffe a bloody nose. My strategy was fairly cautious, in light of the huge tract of territory, I decided to focus on defending Vilna and a couple other surrounding objectives, just enough for a marginal victory. Around turn 20, the Soviet attack had started to finally dissipate and I started to push forward. I retook probably three objectives but then the AI started up it's old unit spam dirty tricks. After dealing with four IS-2s being spawned a turn, several turns in a row, I had to call off the offensive.

Overall, the Bagration scenarios have been excellent and do a good job of capturing the scale of the Soviet attack while not destroying your core outright like the vanilla Bagration scenario.

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Re: DLC '44 #10: Vilna

Post by nikivdd » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:03 pm

FM

IMO the best scenario for DLC '44 i played sofar. Well balanced, russian units with balls (+str points) and a very adequate airforce. Just the Pe-8's don't fit, should have been tank busters instead.
The russian first and second attack wave (turn 8) are priceless. The "ammocannisters" emptied fast and i had to rotate tanks back and forth. The partizan activity was ok but nothing to worry about.
None of them i saw attacking my rear guard city defenders, most got ambushed anyway. The Jadgtiger seems to be invincible against most hard targets, increasing steadily in experience (2 star already).
Three tanks and an SPA broke through and captured Molodechno, few turns later i did the same to capture Svir...this maneuver is not so difficult as you know that the attacking AI moves units to nearest VH in enemy hands.

DV 15/30 9813PP
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Re: DLC '44 #10: Vilna

Post by charonjr » Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:53 pm

Rommel - pre-build core (beta 2)

Starting with 5.1k prestige, down to 1.9k after selling the KV-85 and elite reinforcements.

Upgraded the Tiger I with the new +1 movement hero to a Tiger II (for a total of 3) and my 2 15cm to 17cm, leaving me with 0.8k prestige.

After taking a closer look at the map and due to having no idea where the attacks will come from (most likely all over the place) I decided to leave all my towed artillery at home due to their vulnerability and bring another Panther G instead which was upgraded from a Pz IVH, prestige down to 26.

I have set up 5 Kampfgruppen with a emphasis on the NW. After the first turn it looks like I should have put emphasis on the south instead ;).

By turn 7 it looks like the worst is over for now and I start to move out. And right on time - at the end of turn 8 - a new wave starts to arrive in the south.

The wave at turn 14 causes a lot of chasing Soviet units and getting some troops into position via rail.

Could have won at turn 19, but as usual I kept playing.

The number of IS-2 spawns is crazy, I am sure that I have killed about a dozen till turn 26, only one respawn at turn 27, seems like the AI ran finally out of prestige.

DV at 30/30 with 2.5k prestige and the repairs will not be pretty I think, but nobody forced me to slug it out with the IS-2s ;)

Overall a good scenario, you can pretty much decide how much punishment you can stand and act accordingly once the initial assault and the next two waves have been dealt with.

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Re: DLC '44 #10: Vilna

Post by billmv44 » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:21 pm

Playing on General with imported core. The scale of the map is impressive. I did follow the briefing's advice and formed several balanced battle groups. I didn't have too much trouble anywhere on the map except in the south. The strength of the enemy here was very challenging. I had to rush reinforcements south to contain the threat. DV on 15/30. The sheer number of Soviet units (and their quality) keeps things interesting. I wouldn't change a thing on this one. Well done!
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Re: DLC '44 #10: Vilna

Post by Zhivago » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:37 am

I enjoyed the size of this map--I wish that some of the scenarios in the other DLCs could have been as expansive, as I think it conveys the vastness of the Russian interior. The Germans were almost always over-stretched. A huge key to these DLC 44 scenarios (including this one) is rushing German units to attack and capture bridgeheads. Once the bridges are secure, and Russian bridging units destroyed, the AI will just keep feeding the Russian units over the cross-able river-hexes, or over the bridges with rivers that are not cross-able, zombie-style. When the Russian armor is reduced to this attack strategy, it is game over.

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Re: DLC '44 #10: Vilna

Post by hmshood » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:23 pm

HMSHood found Vilna scenario rather difficult. Lost 2 more core units (Recon & SE Panther). Was not expecting THIRD wave to be as fierce. Enemy armored units flanked and wiped out two "recon in force" dudes. It was not pretty. The Map is huge & challenging. Playing campaign for first time & all I can say is WOW.

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Re: DLC '44 #10: Vilna

Post by joe6778 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:05 am

I mean no disrespect, but I find claims of winning a DV in less than 30 turns on higher difficulty very hard to believe.

I have logged hundreds of hours playing the DLC from '39 to '44 East on colonel difficulty, and I can barely squeak out a MV.

After 17 turns, I have secured 8 objectives but the Soviets still have the following force:

4 T-90 SPAAG
9 ISU 122
2 BRIDGE ENG
12 REG INF 43
9 CAV
8 T34/43
6 SU 85
6 SU76
1 57mm AT
2 52mm ART
7 GUARDS 43
5 KV 85
1 Pe8
1 II 2M 3
1 Yak 3

...and my force consists of 39(!) units. :x Please tell me how you beat this scenario on higher difficulty with low prestige in under 30 turns. I started the scenario with 23000 prestige and very experienced advanced units and I'm down to 16000. I must have destroyed 20 planes and tons of tanks, but the Soviets still have 74 units!

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Re: DLC '44 #10: Vilna

Post by captainjack » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:09 am

Sounds like you should check the AAR section to see if anyone has done a report on this. Also search for Braccada's videos. I've been playing for ages and still learn from these videos, especially from how he thinks through what needs to be done.
Maybe also go to the main thread and look for info on force balance, tactics and prestige management, or post up an AAR of your own and ask for comments.

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Re: DLC '44 #10: Vilna

Post by joe6778 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:27 am

I've been reading this forum for years- the tips, strategies, etc., and watching the videos, but the fact is that there are very few videos done for the '43 - '45 scenarios. I've watched Braccada's videos but he doesn't have any for the DLC campaigns, and Deducter's videos don't have the soft cap.

I would really like to see how the experts beat these campaigns so easily. I play on colonel difficulty, and even when I win the scenarios, my forces and prestige are depleted. And I'm using Tigers, Panthers, Elefants, FW190 fighters- all at maximum experience- and my units are still getting creamed.

The fact is that the '39- Stalingrad '42 scenarios are a breeze, but starting in '43, the Soviets have unlimited prestige and the best equipment. Not to mention that up to '43, I was earning a ton of prestige for DVs, but after '43 the prestige for DVs drops quite a bit. In a lot of the scenarios it's not even worth trying for DVs. For instance, a DV for the '44 Minsk scenario earns a whopping 2000+ prestige!

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Re: DLC '44 #10: Vilna

Post by econ21 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:16 pm

joe6778 wrote:I mean no disrespect, but I find claims of winning a DV in less than 30 turns on higher difficulty very hard to believe..... Please tell me how you beat this scenario on higher difficulty with low prestige in under 30 turns.
I can give a belated response (and nothing to do with the years old beta obviously) having just done the scenario on FM. I pretty much cleared the map by turn 27 - there was probably one Soviet bridge engineer left. It IS a tough one if you don't know what to expect - and the map is so open, it is very hard to know what to expect. I confess I reloaded a few times when my northern battle group pushed too far and got surrounded in a Soviet second wave attack. Deducter's videos are good, btw - I don't know about the soft cap, but you can't accuse him of using an over-powered core: he deploys a very historical core (e.g. with only one tiger etc.). My core was half way between a historical and powergamed one - I had 2 King Tigers, 2 Tigers, 1 elephant, 1 jagdpanther, 1 king tiger, 3 panthers, 3 panzer IVs, 2 Stug IVs and a wide variety of others non-armored units. My soft cap oscillates - it may start as low as 80%. I am starting Warsaw with 20k prestige and probably had around 22k or more in Vilna (it was expensive!).

In terms of the map, there are essentially three zones of battle. The north, which starts slow but if you push forward leads to two objectives north of a river. The centre, around Vilna, which is subject to very heavy infantry attack for most of the 30 turns, shielded by woods. And the south, which kicks off immediately with a heavy armor attack. I would divide your ground forces evenly across the three zones (I tend to deploy my core in three "historical" divisions), but put more things to kill infantry in the centre and more armor elsewhere. Your airforce can cover the north and Vilna, so I would divide it half north/centre and half south. The partisans are largely an irrelevance - they will coalesce around the three main zones of battle anyway. I sent a few forces (a PzIV, StugIV and grenadier would be ideal) to deal with partisans but it may have been unnecessary.

In the south, turtle round the starting town (infantry inside, back with artillery, then tanks circling it). Take out any SPAA asap - my preferred combo is artillery to suppress then over-strength Ju87D to kill it. But the AI may make it easy for you and park its SPAA next to your panzers, in which case, fire away. I find my airforce is key to coping with the mass of Soviet armor. I field two overstrength Ju87D (with Rudel) and two 10 strength Ju87G. The Ju87G go for the heavier tanks with AA, the 15 strength Ju87D go for older tanks/SPA or soft targets. In this scenario, I half in the south and half in the centre around Vilna. Ideally kill the bridge engineer to delay the second wave - I failed to do so. There are only two waves there IIRC. When you've killed both, push east for the most southeast objective.

In the centre around Vilna, I deployed heavy tank killers there which was a mistake, as they are bad at killing infantry and can't operate well in the forests. However, heavy armour backed by artillery can deter the Soviet infantry and protect the city. I slowly killed the enemy infantry using the surrender mechanic using artillery and infantry. An 88 AD was almost essential as there are heavy air attacks (no Soviet airforce in the south) and my seven fights saw most of their action here. I find using the 88 to weaken Soviet fighters (to allow my fights to take them down) the best use of it. The most dangerous enemy are SPAs - the Su122 etc. They can suppress your infantry and then you will die to the Soviet infantry - plus they are so fast, you can't easily control what is vulnerable. Use your airforce to kill them asap. (Armour may help but the mass of Soviet infantry as a buffer and forests will probably prevent that). Eventually, you'll grind through the infantry and can then use your central division to heal the north clean up.

The northern zone is the most fun, IMO. After clearing partisans, you can sprint to the two north eastern objectives by a river. But be careful - you will run into two waves of very heavy Soviet forces. If you don't take the north eastern objectives, those forces will go to Vilna. Try to hold the bridges so you can destroy the enemy on the river. The Soviet armour is rather low quality in this scenario - no IS tanks, IIRC. Even PanzerIVs and StuGIVs can operate here, but don't expose them to the opportunity for repeated attacks - try to lead with tigers and panthers. But target the Kv-85s and Su-85s first, as these can kill your weaker tanks. Level bombers are good against the ISU-152, which is as tough as hell but has very limited ammo.

DLC 43 and 44 East are a big step up from earlier scenarios. The Soviets are on the offensive, so come in large concentrations. If you expose weaker units - infantry, medium tanks etc - they can be very quickly killed. However, you have the tools to beat them - notably your airforce, but also the big cats which are far superior to the bulk of Soviet armor (the T34/43). I haven't done 45 East yet - burnt out last time, hoping to get through it this time. Good luck!

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Re: DLC '44 #10: Vilna

Post by loganfive » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:37 pm

joe6778 wrote:I mean no disrespect, but I find claims of winning a DV in less than 30 turns on higher difficulty very hard to believe.

I have logged hundreds of hours playing the DLC from '39 to '44 East on colonel difficulty, and I can barely squeak out a MV.

After 17 turns, I have secured 8 objectives but the Soviets still have the following force:

4 T-90 SPAAG
9 ISU 122
2 BRIDGE ENG
12 REG INF 43
9 CAV
8 T34/43
6 SU 85
6 SU76
1 57mm AT
2 52mm ART
7 GUARDS 43
5 KV 85
1 Pe8
1 II 2M 3
1 Yak 3

...and my force consists of 39(!) units. :x Please tell me how you beat this scenario on higher difficulty with low prestige in under 30 turns. I started the scenario with 23000 prestige and very experienced advanced units and I'm down to 16000. I must have destroyed 20 planes and tons of tanks, but the Soviets still have 74 units!
Hmm.

The Vilna scenario allows you to deploy 36 units and you should have 7 SE units at this stage of the Grand Campaign, for a total of 43. If you have less than that I can see how it would be really difficult to win.

I just played the scenario and won in a DV in 25 turns, and was under the cap at the end. I see that some people claim to have done it in 15-20 turns. It's possible, but you would have to deploy a lot more armour and bombers than I did (I deployed 10 tank units, zero tank destroyers, two Stukas, zero strategic bombers).

The key to this one is to take out the partisan units, then regroup your units into defensive formations to survive the Soviet onslaught. The forest and urban hexes around Vilna allow you to defend it fairly easily with infantry and artillery. Put all your armour on the far north and far south hexes. Because I deployed less armour than most people would have used, I ended up having to do a fighting withdrawal with the small task force I had deployed around Lida. I don't particularly recommend that strategy, although it worked out in the end.

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Re: DLC '44 #10: Vilna

Post by shopphongtinh » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:12 am

Sounds like you should check the AAR section to see if anyone has done a report on this.

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