AK: Gazala Line

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bulli
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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by bulli » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:09 pm

I've sent you the save-game of the allied's turn 13 beginning. The error happens somewhere in the last quater of allieds turn 13 while AI is working.

Blathergut
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Re: Disappearing Unit: repeatable

Post by Blathergut » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:02 pm

Okay, I finally recreated the sequence I used and it happens every time.

Near Bir Hacheim, hex 23,32: 21st BMW R12 moves to 25,32 and attacks the mines south of there (already revealed previously by 20th BMW R12). The mines to the east and north-east are not revealed.

Then, 20th BMW R12 attempts to move 2 hexes north-east to 26,32, through hex 25,32 that contains 21st BMW. There are mines unrevealed at this point in 26,32. They are revealed when 20th moves into the same hex as 21st, an attack takes place.

21st disappears.

I have the saved game file if you wish.

Rudankort
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Re: Disappearing Unit: repeatable

Post by Rudankort » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:03 pm

Blathergut wrote:I have the saved game file if you wish.
Yes, please send it to me (rudankort@rsdn.ru). Thx!

Blathergut
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Re: Disappearing Unit: repeatable

Post by Blathergut » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:15 pm

Rudankort wrote:
Blathergut wrote:I have the saved game file if you wish.
Yes, please send it to me (rudankort@rsdn.ru). Thx!
Sent. Follow the steps I listed here. Let me know if there is anything else I can do about it.

billmv44
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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by billmv44 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:43 pm

General. Starting Prestige 2924, ending 6648.

This was a great scenario. The mines were a nasty surprise. A very welcome addition to the game. I like the way the Pioniere units clear them in one shot. It was a long slog to swing around Bir Hakim. Just when I thought I had cleared out the last of the enemy forces, another batch would crop up. The battle for the airfield in the south east took quite a while. I was questioning my strategy since it looked like I would run out of time. However once their flank was turned and the Tommies started bugging out, I was able to quickly take all of the objectives and destroy enough units to get the DV. The 4000 bonus prestige for taking and defending that airfield made the whole struggle worth it. I landed my Gruppe Hecker forces immediately. I didn't want to chance losing them to naval forces. There was at least a destroyer lurking out there (it made an appearance after I took Tobruk).

I think you are really capturing the flavor of desert combat. Well done!
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Blathergut
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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by Blathergut » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:14 pm

Any word on the Case of the Disappearing Motorcycle Unit??? :wink:

Rudankort
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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by Rudankort » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:26 pm

Blathergut wrote:Any word on the Case of the Disappearing Motorcycle Unit??? :wink:
Should be fixed in beta 2. :)

Erik2
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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by Erik2 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:35 pm

Very interesting scenario although a frustating one if you do not have the "correct" core (plenty of Pioniers) at start. Replacing a few Italian infantry units with engineer units along the frontline would help. After all, the Axis knew they were heading into mine-fields and would lead the advance with engineers.
Mines are cool, but I think there are too many mine-fields. An objective behind the main lines should not be covered with mines.
Also, it is strange watching enemy armor zip through their own minefields at a blistering pace. They should at least stop in their own minefield (no losses) simulating care following the mine-maps.

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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by El_Condoro » Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:37 am

All objectives were in my possession on Turn 26 but the scenario goes to 32 turns. DV.

This is an excellent scenario with an epic feel about it. The minefields are interesting in how they work; do they have a 1-10 result no matter how many pioneres attack them? That's how it seemed to work for me. Not sure how they stay hidden even when they are in LOS but that is a great feature, too. It took me 3 sittings to play through once and loved it. I forgot to save at the end of the scenario so if I want to go back to Malta I will need to use a cheat code as my last save was at about turn 26.

Well done!

Kamerer
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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by Kamerer » Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:17 pm

Playing beta 2 now.

Error with purchasing new units/Prestige: Can't do it after start. If scenario is supposed to work this way, with no units purchasable after the start, a pop-up or briefing element should state that? But the prestige errors imply it's a bug:

After start, when attempting to buy a new unit, the game:
a) acts like you are indeed purchasing.
b) unit does not appear in reserves.
c) prestige changes by random amount, +/- 50, 99, 210 - apparently unrelated to unit cost.

I reloaded from deployment phase and same weird behavior appeared.
I quit to desktop, restarted game, and restarted scenario but the same behavior.

I used a cheat code to force a victory, went to Malta and the same thing happens. Purchasing units works in deployment phase, but then goes haywire as above after opening turn 1.

Kamerer
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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by Kamerer » Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:38 am

uran21 wrote: Minefields do not exercise ZOC so you if they are lined up, destroying only one of them will force a breach where other units can travel.
Actually they do exert limited zoc. A unit nearby can not resupply or reinforce fully. I don't think it should be like this; nothing about a minefield should keep a unit near it from being able to service.

I also think they are "spotting" - e.g., if I have arty adjacent to one well back from other opposing units, several times fighters have come and zero'd in on the arty otherwise out of their sight - unless the minefield is spotting it? Weird.

nikivdd
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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by nikivdd » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:55 am

beta2
Colonel.

Upgrades: PzIIIJ to PzIIIJ/1, Captured Mathilda and Crusader tanks to PzIVG, bought a He177A and StuG IIIF

Very intense mission with the introduction of minefields. The first half of turns it is not easy to make a couple of breaches but when that is done i attacked the enemy from the rear.
The battlegroup that took Bir Hacheim moved east to take everything on their path. Nice to find yet another capturable tank. The battlegroup that took Sidi Muftah also moved east and took everything as far as Belhamed.
The few pioniers that took Gazala, together with a core artillery and tank moved east to take Tobruk.
Very good air activity which took me by surprise. Also the SAS troops were a temporarily pain but i managed to recapture the airfields. The last allied counterattack in the vicinity of Bir el Gubi was repulsed by two M14/41, the new StuGIIIF, a StuGIIIB (who received a +1 range) and two Bersaglieri (all core units).

Losses: 1 aux MC.202, 1 aux SM.79
DV: 26/32, 9371PP (surprisingly got a huge prestige reward)
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Razz1
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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by Razz1 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:25 pm

BETA 2
Colonel
start 6283 prestige
DV
end 10,944 prestige
Captured tank
received bonus prestige

This is the second time I played this map, once in beta 1 campaign and again in second beta

This is one of my favorite maps.
Well done. I like the size and the strategy a player needs.

I still have my Italian fighter. Upgrade last map. 3 star and hero +1 movement +1 defense, Silver star
1 star Italian inf
2 star Beragalerli
0 star Beragalerli
1 star M13/40
1 star M14/41 with +1 initiative This unit is always in the fight on every map. Was 3 star but now 1 star
4 star 105 mm Artillery with Silver star, this map awarded +3 attack hero

For air force, I have two additional Me109's and a strategy bomber

You have to reinforce on this map. Looks like I could have reinforced with more Elite's, especially the M14/41
I reinforced the auxillaries several times, including some Elites

This may be an excellent map to re-work for MP

Personally, I would make the 2nd and 3rd map just a little harder in the campaign.

monkspider
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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by monkspider » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:40 am

Gazala Line
Beta 2
Ending prestige 6200
Losses 1x Stuka
DV on turn 31/32
Captured Grant

This is my second time through, and still an incredibly epic scenario. Nothing new to report beyond my initial report and nothing to suggest. It seems like minefields weren't quite as big a nuisance this time. I lost a Stuka to an unexpected fighter swarm. I have managed to capture Grant, Crusader, and Matilda tanks now. I am glad that you implemented the captured equipment feature in this DLC.

LostAgain
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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by LostAgain » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:42 am

produit wrote:Having to wait 12 turns for prestige at the end is awful.
Moreover, when the AI has no unit anymore, it takes a lot of time to play.
So don't play the turns after you've killed all of the AI units. Just end turn until you get the DV!

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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by Tarrak » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:32 am

Gazala Line 2.0
Difficulty: General
Starting prestige: 4351.

Bought a Wurfrahmen 40. Upgraded 4 (2 normal and 2 SE) PzIIJ to PZIIIJ/1, the captured Crusader to PzIVG, 5cm PaK to StuGIIIF, 2 Bf109f (1 normal and 1 SE) to Bf109g and Bf110d to Bf110g. As replacements strategy during deployment phase i used following pattern: If the unit did not lose any whole star by using normal replacements i used normal, if it were the case i used elite replacements. I did over-strength all units as much as possible. Used elite replacements during the battle for my core and if really necessary normal for auxiliary troops i could not afford to lose or withdraw.

Outcome: DV at turn 32/32. I lost 2 M14/41 tanks and a MC202 fighter from my core. I did not count auxiliary losses here but surely lost a few Italian auxiliary infantry. Captured a Grant tank. Bought during the battle a PzIVG to replace one of the lost M14/41.
End prestige: 9460 (this is the prestige after the DV bonus, the one available at the begin of next scenario)

It's a nice and quite challenging scenario. The minefields are a great addition to the game. They are confusing at first but after a few tries one can briefly realize how to deal with them. Still some explanation of them in the manual could be useful especially as the mechanics to deal with them are implemented with the use of hidden traits. Yes it is very logical to use engineers/pioneers vs mines but mentioning it may help. :)

The scenario seems well balanced to me and is providing a good amount of challenge without being to hard. I wonder how someone managed to beat it in 20 turns (OK it was in Beta 1 so the scenario was possibly different). I could have maybe done it in 28 top if really racing for it and skipping the southern airfield. All in all i really like the scenario and would change nothing here.

I noticed one problem here tho not really with the scenario but with the Italian units and the AI behavior. The Italian units are starting slowly to be significantly weaker then their German counterparts. While itself is not a problem but considering the AI always attacks units with most favorable outcome it seems to swarm the Italian units with everything it got and ignore the German ones standing just beside it. As soon an Italian unit get separated somewhere it usually get hit multiple times quite often leading to the demise if it. My only core losses in that scenario was 3 Italian units and there was nothing i could do. I wasn't using them as cannon fodder rather on the contrary. The fighter just got swarmed by 3 Hurricanes and taken down from 9 to 0 in one turn. Similar happened to the M14/41s. They was doing just their business while they got mass attacked by enemy armor and killed from a quite safe strength in one turn by a suicidal rush from the AI. This behavior, while totally correct, just discourage one from using Italian units at all.

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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by El_Condoro » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:33 pm

That's quite a good point and may be one way to encourage using Italian units - if the AI was programmed to favour attacks on German units.

Resolute
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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by Resolute » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:46 pm

Fun scenario and just a suggestion regarding the mines.

It would have helped a bit having an aux pioneer unit (maybe with lower strength) called "mine clearer" or something like that so people would have a better idea how to combat those things.
The problem I see with this scenario is that players might abandon their italien inf. in order to get pioneers. Why not having an italien unit like the bridge engineer which excels in clearing mines. Maybe as good as pioneers in regards killing mines just weaker combat ratings and something like a movement rate of three.

Erik2
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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by Erik2 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:31 pm

Resolute wrote:Fun scenario and just a suggestion regarding the mines.

It would have helped a bit having an aux pioneer unit (maybe with lower strength) called "mine clearer" or something like that so people would have a better idea how to combat those things.
The problem I see with this scenario is that players might abandon their italien inf. in order to get pioneers. Why not having an italien unit like the bridge engineer which excels in clearing mines. Maybe as good as pioneers in regards killing mines just weaker combat ratings and something like a movement rate of three.
You don' even have to fiddle with the eqp.
A 2-strength engineer will still clear a whole mine-field (and lose a strength point in the process.
So provide a few low-strength engineer units, the Axis knew they would enter mine-fields. They were used to a high degree in North Africa.

petehat
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Re: AK: Gazala Line

Post by petehat » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:04 pm

Playing beta 2.

Excellent scenario, best yet. I won;t add to all the other comments because most of everything to be said has been, except that I found that hex 23,22, which looks like an escarpment could be moved into and out of as if it were clear terrain.

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