Allied: Sicily

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uran21
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Allied: Sicily

Post by uran21 » Fri May 03, 2013 3:45 pm

Please post here your comments about this scenario.

omegabet
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by omegabet » Sat May 04, 2013 3:27 pm

Although all the missing US units appear in this mission, the writen victory conditions are missing. Instead the text is: ...

Kamerer
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Kamerer » Sun May 05, 2013 7:58 am

16) Sicily – beta 1

Level: Field Marshal
Prestige: Begin: 250 (after repair/purchases). End: 1,200. Net: +950.
Result: ?? at 25/25 (no criteria given; I had all hexes in sicily and screen said “Victory”)
Replacement policy: Deployed air, infantry, and tanks at 13, arty at 12.

Core Changes:
  • Received: None
    Disbanded: 1x 7.2” artillery
    Purchased:
    • 1x M4a3
      1x M18 Hellcat
      2x Ranger w/M3's
      3x 155mm GMCs
      1x B-24
    Upgraded: None.
Problems:
  • • Turn screen/victory conditions blank.
General impressions/comments:
  • • It took some real pushing and damage to get it done in 25. I finished with all Sicily under my boot. Game awarded “Victory” though I don’t know what else there was to do for a DV? Maybe do it in fewer turns? I get the feeling this scenario is not quite finished.
    • Allied unit problem: there is no allied mountain infantry. The US made use of specialized mountain infantry. If you don’t feel like creating a new unit, perhaps give Rangers mountain movement? They were used as such in the Med., so it's not out of line.
    • It seems logical with that many paratroops in a campaign, and any organic core ones, there should be some allowed transport for them. Currently “0."
    • Also seems odd not to have some naval forces for fire support.

nikivdd
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by nikivdd » Sun May 05, 2013 7:43 pm

Colonel level
Upgrades: both Mosquitos to the latest model
Purchases: 2x M4A3

This scenario is definitely a race against the clock. I took Messina at turn 22, ferried two units to the other side while i committed every airasset to pound the hell out of the defenders around Calabria. Some airtransports is really warranted! The churchill tanks are really a boon, the enemy barely made a dent in them.
It was awkward that the enemy had no planes at all...but i am glad i didnt have this distraction. Once more i lost a M4A3 in my due haste. A few more turns wouldnt be a luxury.

Some towns have no flag.

The german transports are highlighted, any special meaning?

Losses: core M3A3, DV 25/25, 2686PP

dthomas561
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by dthomas561 » Sun May 05, 2013 8:18 pm

Kamerer wrote:16) Sicily – beta 1

Level: Field Marshal
Prestige: Begin: 250 (after repair/purchases). End: 1,200. Net: +950.
Result: ?? at 25/25 (no criteria given; I had all hexes in sicily and screen said “Victory”)
Replacement policy: Deployed air, infantry, and tanks at 13, arty at 12.

Core Changes:
  • Received: None
    Disbanded: 1x 7.2” artillery
    Purchased:
    • 1x M4a3
      1x M18 Hellcat
      2x Ranger w/M3's
      3x 155mm GMCs
      1x B-24
    Upgraded: None.
Problems:
  • • Turn screen/victory conditions blank.
General impressions/comments:
  • • It took some real pushing and damage to get it done in 25. I finished with all Sicily under my boot. Game awarded “Victory” though I don’t know what else there was to do for a DV? Maybe do it in fewer turns? I get the feeling this scenario is not quite finished.
    • Allied unit problem: there is no allied mountain infantry. The US made use of specialized mountain infantry. If you don’t feel like creating a new unit, perhaps give Rangers mountain movement? They were used as such in the Med., so it's not out of line.
    • It seems logical with that many paratroops in a campaign, and any organic core ones, there should be some allowed transport for them. Currently “0."
    • Also seems odd not to have some naval forces for fire support.

I found the EXACT same thing and fully agree with all that is said above...

LostAgain
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by LostAgain » Mon May 06, 2013 1:51 am

Playing FM. Right out of the gate-I've had a problem with this in past and it still irritates me immensely. While I understand why it's done, having red dots all over the map whenever an air unit is chosen prior to the capture of an air field is both distracting and confusing, not to mention the difficulty in simply viewing the map that it causes. Isn't there some other way to say HEY-Take an airfield or you'll run out of gas?\

1.I placed an auxilliary British '43 Para unit on the airfield at 37/16 and on the next turn was unable to embark him. There was no aircraft on the hex to prevent this and it was 3 turns after I'd taken the field. Not sure if this makes any difference, but I'd taken the field with Canadian infantry. Moved the same paras onto the airfield at 34/15 and again could not embark them. Next I moved my core para unit onto the airfield at hex 37/14 and it would not embark either. These paras had transport but usually you get the question asking if you want to abandon the vehicle, but...nothing. Tried a different auxillary para on the field at 33/14 but it didn't work either.

2.At the start of the scenario although Canadian troops are supposed to be available I could not purchase them, the "Not Enough Unit Slots" warning came on.


Other than the above glitchs everything seem to work well. The scenario itself was one of the best so far in this DLC. It was challenging and took initiative and planning to complete with a DV.

Kamerer
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Kamerer » Tue May 07, 2013 4:51 am

I replayed this with US forces integrated into my core:

a) I got done in 22 (all hexes on Sicily mainland). Game went on to 25 - so I think we are supposed to cross to Calabria? Some instruction would be helpful.

b) In beta 2 I will try to take the mainland/calabria spaces and I presume that will get a Triumph.

The map as-is seems well balanced and with some instruction I think the scenario will work great.

Razz1
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Razz1 » Thu May 09, 2013 5:22 am

General
start 2970
end 1086
Victory

Not sure really what to do here as the map is large and I could tell there was a very good chance of not capturing the whole map.
Took 3 ports fairly early, so I thought I had a triumph.

Nice counter attack near the start with the Germans.

I started pushing my way up to Messina but found several forts and a Damn submarine.
The submarine stalled my advance for a long time as the were no ships available to attack it.
Yea!!! I am able to deploy my cruiser.

Because of the predicament, I wasn't always able to attack the submarine, as my airforce was needed for land attacks.
Finally, the AI started spawn some ships. I was surprised, but was able to block them with 6 or more ships.
These ships were waiting for me to knock out the forts before they could advance toward Messina.
They made an excellent block. Slowly I moved some of them to land and disembarked as the advance was real slow to Messina.
Most of the time I had 5 slots in which I could not deploy any troops.
I did not have enough prestige!!!
Need more prestige.

Killed all the AI ships so I figured I had a triumph. Captured 3 ports and killed all units trying to retreat.

So the setting and explanation is incorrect for triumph conditions.
One of the ports was captured by the Canadians, so perhaps you do not have the share flag box checked.
Also, if I need Mesina, it specifically must state that condition.
Lost allot of units.
Almost every unit ended up being at strength 4!
Yes, that includes the airforce too!

I took me several turns to kill the submarine. More than 5 attacks and allot more turns not attacking it, as it was not a priority. Defense of land units were the priority.

I liked the map, but need more prestige.
If you were to add a destroyer, I think it would make the map unbalanced as I could easily move up the coast allot faster to Mesina.
If a player abandoned their cruiser for prestige before playing this map, I do not know how they can stop the AI from retreating all of their units.

So basically, I was pretty handicapped.
1) 6 ships at sea and could not use them since they were blocking the AI ships.
2) 5 additional slots where I did not have the prestige to buy units.
3) following the conditions in the instructions capture 3 ports and stop the AI from retreating.

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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Tarrak » Thu May 09, 2013 5:35 am

Scenario: Sicily
Difficulty: general
Outcome: Victory on turn 25/25
Starting Prestige: 5040
End Prestige: 2407, 7857 after victory reward
Core: 2 x Engineer 43, 1 x HW infantry 43, 1 x SE Rangers, 6 x Churchil Mk.IV, 2 x M18 Hellcat, 1 x Chevy-WB recon, 1 x M8 Greyhound, 2 x 7.2 inch guns, 2 x M7 priest, 2 x M12 GMC, 1 x Hurricane Mk.IIC, 1 x Spitfire Mk. IX, 1 x SE Spitfire Mk. IX, 1 x P-47D Thunderbolt, 1 x Beaufighter Mk.IF, 2 x Wellington Mk.X

Bought during the deployment phase one M8 Greyhound recon and upgraded my two Wolverines to Hellcats.

The mission itself is quite enjoyable and challenging but not to hard. At least the enemy opposition isn't to bad. The rough terrain, especially on the approach to Medina is quite troublesome tho. I got stuck there for quite a few turns by the infantry, 2 artillery, 88er, pak defense group dug in the mountains. They are all heavily entrenched and with the new suppression mechanic really hard to root out especially with no place to manouver. There it was where i had my only core unit lose in this scenario. My poor engineers died trying to storm the mountains. All in all i got totally stalled there and didn't even managed to take Medina. I guess i was 3 maybe 4 turns away from taking it.

The Victory conditions are displayed as ... in this scenario.

Longasc
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Longasc » Fri May 10, 2013 2:51 pm

Sicily, AC Beta 1

Level: General
Start Prestige: 2586
End Prestige: ?
Result: ?
Bought/Upgraded/Losses: Got another SE Spitfire VB.

Attention: I didn't get a bonus after the Triumph in Tunisia, this is exactly the same Prestige I ended the scenario with.
(There is quite an emphasis on SE units in the air. Maybe for the better, given the quality of Allied tanks)

To be continued...

Initial thoughts: A large map, lots of terrain to traverse and feeling like there is an entire American cruiser and land troop contingent missing in Sicily.
Last edited by Longasc on Fri May 10, 2013 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Longasc
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Longasc » Fri May 10, 2013 3:26 pm

I just tried to piece together what I shall do for this or that kind of victory from reading this thread.

I saw an Axis transport in the water near Messina, turn 2/3. I sent my B17 after it, my two Mosquitos are hunting subs but only damaged one so far and lost contact already.
Are the Axis evacuating "something" to Reggio on the Italian mainland? They are supposed to do that, according to the briefing.

Would be nice if Uran21 could clarify our objectives! :)
It's just you know, my Mosquitos are getting shot at by enemy 8.8s and they are bad enough, even if the Axis apparently has no single fighter.


Sidenote: Were Italian or German submarines involved in this battle at all?


EDIT: Decided to abandon this scenario and start as American in TORCH / Beta 2.

Kamerer
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Kamerer » Sat May 11, 2013 9:02 pm

8) Sicily – beta 2

Level: Rommel
Begin pp: 200. End pp: 700. Net +500.
Result: Victory 25/25.

Core Changes:
  • Received: None.
    Disbanded: None.
    Purchased: None.
    Upgraded: None.
    Deployed: Aux. DD and CL retained from Crete.
Problems:
  • • Still no victory conditions; unsure what complete objectives are here.
    • Unsure what objectives are re: axis naval transport chain.
General Impressions/Comments:
  • • Scenario works, but conceptually still does not appear finished?
    • I used 1 DD and 1 CL evac’d from Crete, along with a Liberator and the newly-placed carrier to kill most of the transports. Only the first one or possibly two pre-positioned at the start under the fortress guns escaped.
    • I had all Victory hexes by 25, as well as all but 1(?) transports killed and got ‘Victory.’ Very difficult to clear all hexes much sooner.
    • Some heavy naval units to engage either coastal defenses or mainland batteries would be interesting and possibly speed things If that is the goal. I am now regretting suggesting the straight fortresses back in GC West ’43. ;)
    • Axis units behaved differently this time; the central armor reserve came out to engage me instead of sitting statically in difficult terrain . Also, one sub stayed in the straights instead of coming out to engage. The different behavior made the units slightly cheaper to kill, and I got my northern pincer closed sooner, but unfortunately I did not get Messina captured any faster.
    • I had to play a little more conservatively, though, because it was on Rommel, so that slowed me slightly.

produit
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by produit » Sun May 12, 2013 9:08 pm

Triumph 25/25, FM, Beta2, Chess mode, Ending prestige 413.

The main problem, as already written, is that the objectives are not given. I captured and cleared all Sicily. I even got 3 Churchill across the strait of Messina, which captured the two airfields and the city of Reggio di Calabria. I destroyed the special German ground transport and destroyed also the naval transport.

Like Kamerer said, it is quite strange that the Italian Navy is not there and it is even more special that the allies don't bring their full naval power for the landing and to serve as mobile artillery. It would be more "faithful" and easier to attack. I was really short on prestige as I lost quite a lot of strength points. Especially, the East road took me a lot of turns to crack. I was already in Messina from the North, before the road was open.

Flaygor
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Flaygor » Mon May 13, 2013 11:51 pm

Interesting and extremely difficult scenario that starts out with easy landings and then becomes a grind in the mountains.
Seems to be exactly modeled on PG scenario right down to unit types (no Luftwaffe?) but then springs nasty little roadblocks in your way once you're feeling confident about finishing by turn 15! Very well done.

Some navy to help dislodge the roadblocks would be nice and add variety to what became a bloody slog. Maybe a touch too hard? Even on third try I still wasn't happy with my losses and reset scenario. My fault for being too cavalier in some respects. Will try again with better arty.

River mouths at 39,16 & 15,16 are wrong graphic. Lake at 15,7 also has river in it. Lots of hexes missing victory flags as previously noted. But game mechanics sound and no crashing.

Zhivago
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Zhivago » Tue May 14, 2013 4:04 am

I finally found a use for the cruiser I evacuated like 20 scenarios ago. I was able to place it in this scenario, but even though it was not destroyed, it did not appear in my core anymore at the start of the next scenario? What gives?

It was nice having the cruiser to sink tons of axis troop ships, and for occasional shore bombardment.

Entrenched German and Italian infantry only seem to budge after getting smacked by three or four arty shots, and then use of a combat engineer. This scenario sucks prestige like a 70s Cadillac sucks gas due to high casualties digging the Axis out. Going after non-victory hexes is a quick way to lose prestige fast.

Tarrak
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Tarrak » Tue May 14, 2013 9:03 am

The scenarios objectives are still listed in Beta 2 as "...". I tried to figure out what the "prevent evacuation bit means" and move my planes straight over the evacuation hex to have a look. I saw several Opel Trucks with plates indicating them as special targets (the white glowing border) but they started to evacuate instantly. I spotted one of them sitting in the harbor and two already loaded on sea transports and legging it towards the evacuation hex. Is some trigger broken here or aren't they really the objective ? If they are i don't see how to stop them as bombing them isn't really an option with the amount of AA fire there unless one want a pyrrhic victory.

Tarrak
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Tarrak » Tue May 14, 2013 10:47 am

So replayed the scenario again in Beta 2.

As i wrote above the victory conditions still shows as "...". I am quite sure the Triumph is related to the trucks appearing and trying to evacuate but i have no clue what triggers them and how to stop them ... is that scenario fully functional at all. This time i managed to conquer all victory hexes but still only ended with a victory. Losses to my core was a M18 Hellcat and a Flying Fortress (the second in a desparate attempt to figure out the deal with trucks evacuation).
Attachments
(14.05.2013) Sicily, Turn 25.zip
Siciily Beta 2 replay
(69.33 KiB) Downloaded 110 times

Longasc
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Longasc » Tue May 14, 2013 12:22 pm

What must I do for a minor victory?

I will play this scenario tonight, but its a frightening HUGE map and still not knowing what exactly should be done, it seems to be a race against time while preventing losses you will take because you are in a hurry.

Dunno, I am not a fan of this scenario. It would help me a lot if someone could give me some more hints what to do, but apparently nobody in this thread has exactly figured out what to do. This would also make the test more useful. I just don't like to risk units if I don't know for what.

-> I hope I am through this soon so that I can test the scenarios after this.

Tarrak
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Tarrak » Tue May 14, 2013 1:22 pm

Longasc wrote:What must I do for a minor victory?
On my first play through i managed to capture all victory hexes except Messina and i got a Victory. On the second now in beta 2 i managed to capture all VH and still only landed a Victory.

I just opened the scenario with the editor and checked the victory conditions and it seems for a Triumph there can't be any axis flag left on the map .. which means capturing pretty much every city and airport which seems nearly impossible to me. For a Victory you need to control at least three victory hexes which seems very easy to do on the other hand. I am not really experiences with the scenario editor tho i i may be wrong.

Longasc
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Longasc » Tue May 14, 2013 7:44 pm

Thank you!

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