Allied: Sicily

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okiemcguire
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by okiemcguire » Tue May 14, 2013 7:44 pm

15) Sicily - Beta 2
Level: Colonel
Prestige Begin: 5497 End/Vict: 371/5815

Result: Victory 25/25

No Triumph or Victory conditions listed on Allies Deployment Phase screen.

This sceanrio ate me up. I deployed the american forces to head west and Northwest. British and Canadian forces to head north in Middle and east coast. The Tiger took a lot of prestige from my one my low star american tanks. Fortresses caused a lot of depletion. Took Palermo on last turn by americans. Took every victory hex except Messina adn across to Callabria. Hills and that one stretch on east coast took more time than I wanted. The Mosquitos took care of the subs. I had deployed 2 Destroyers and a Cruiser that I had as aux reserve. Cruiser supported the American advance while the destroyers scrrened for the carrier and destroyed several ships.

Lost several of my units.... I want to replay but I most continue to test....
Attachments
(14.05.2013) Sicily, Turn 25.zip
(85.44 KiB) Downloaded 103 times

Zhivago
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Zhivago » Tue May 14, 2013 9:31 pm

Longasc wrote:Thank you!
I have been able to capture all of the victory hexes (and non-victory hexes) on Sicily, but just barely. I also sank a bunch of transports. I did get a victory. I'll be damned if I know how to get a Triumph though.

Flaygor
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Flaygor » Wed May 15, 2013 3:44 am

I have now managed to get a victory on this but not a triumph. Still took all the turns up, AND I went through the center and around the coastal road block, and STILL couldn't remove the damned thing completely even when shelling it from both sides! Need some cruisers to pound it while I approach or something. I could bomb the 88 but the prestige costs are horrendous and they don't seem to run out of ammo like they used to.

I found taking the victory hexes easier than removing infantry from the mountains. Maybe this is the way it's meant to be, no longer a free ride picking up points for lightly defended minor hexes. In Anzio I just went around some minor hexes and focused on the main ones, took a lot less damage that way.

Zhivago
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Zhivago » Wed May 15, 2013 12:19 pm

Flaygor wrote:I have now managed to get a victory on this but not a triumph. Still took all the turns up, AND I went through the center and around the coastal road block, and STILL couldn't remove the damned thing completely even when shelling it from both sides! Need some cruisers to pound it while I approach or something. I could bomb the 88 but the prestige costs are horrendous and they don't seem to run out of ammo like they used to.

I found taking the victory hexes easier than removing infantry from the mountains. Maybe this is the way it's meant to be, no longer a free ride picking up points for lightly defended minor hexes. In Anzio I just went around some minor hexes and focused on the main ones, took a lot less damage that way.
Historically, both the British Mediterranean Fleet and the US Eighth Fleet were involved in the assault on Sicily. It would seem to be reasonable that there would be some kind of Allied Fleet presence in this scenario to assist the ground forces. In Panzer Corps 42-43 West, there are Allied ships for the scenario covering the invasion of Sicily (and Italy for that matter). Where are they in this scenario?

Also, why did the cruiser I had been saving since I evacuated it in 1941 (and been unable to place in a scenario until Sicily) disappear at the end of the Sicily map? I would have liked to have kept it, even if just to disband it for the 1600 prestige.

Tarrak
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Tarrak » Wed May 15, 2013 12:52 pm

Zhivago wrote:Also, why did the cruiser I had been saving since I evacuated it in 1941 (and been unable to place in a scenario until Sicily) disappear at the end of the Sicily map? I would have liked to have kept it, even if just to disband it for the 1600 prestige.
Auxiliary units on your reserve list always do disappear unless you evacuate them through an evacuation hex. If there is no evacuation hex on the map you just can not get them back to your reserve list. If they would always come back after every mission they would behave exactly like your core units after all wouldn't they?

You can't disband auxiliary units for prestige anymore in beta 2 anyway. See here.
Rudankort wrote:- Disbanding aux units is not allowed

Zhivago
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Zhivago » Wed May 15, 2013 8:11 pm

Tarrak wrote:
Zhivago wrote:Also, why did the cruiser I had been saving since I evacuated it in 1941 (and been unable to place in a scenario until Sicily) disappear at the end of the Sicily map? I would have liked to have kept it, even if just to disband it for the 1600 prestige.
Auxiliary units on your reserve list always do disappear unless you evacuate them through an evacuation hex. If there is no evacuation hex on the map you just can not get them back to your reserve list. If they would always come back after every mission they would behave exactly like your core units after all wouldn't they?

You can't disband auxiliary units for prestige anymore in beta 2 anyway. See here.
Rudankort wrote:- Disbanding aux units is not allowed
Well, that's BS then. So much for building up a naval force. Why bother if you just lose it after Sicily?

monkspider
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by monkspider » Wed May 15, 2013 11:06 pm

Sicily
Beta 2
General level
Marginal Victory

This one was very tough, and from the missing scenario objectives, seems to be quite unfinished. The scenario has a lot of potential, it seems to accurately represent the stiff German resistance but there seems to be too many units and too large a map for the amount of turns that the player has. Some naval units would help, it was definitely odd as others mentioned that there were no naval elements. Overall, this scenario has a lot of potential but still has some work to go.
Attachments
Sicily replay beta 2 monkspider.zip
(71.78 KiB) Downloaded 113 times

uran21
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by uran21 » Thu May 16, 2013 9:00 pm

Thanks to all for the feedback so far. This scenario has an issue with the scripting, issue is known but slightly complicated and not resolved yet. For Victory only three ports marked as objectives should be taken. For Triumph plan is to take all ports and prevent Axis evacuation across Messina Strait but this is where the issue is currently. I was also thinking to make additional prestige rewards for capturing more than three ports even if Triumph is not achieved. So those who feel short of Triumph have some motivation to achieve more than just conditions for Victory.

Allied naval element will eventually be added but the point of it would be to use it together with air force to prevent Axis retreat so it would be busy on that side rather than just blasting land targets in oblivion. For Axis naval element I was thinking to make it random. So this part still needs to be added and tested internally first. Your impressions about the map and land fightings are very useful, this additional part should depend more on auxiliaries and their parallel use.

While we speak about naval element in the game concept of players ships showed lot of shortcomings so it was not developed any further in direction of using it with exit zones. Instead Alex proposed and implemented new mechanics. This is how it is going to work. Ships will be auxiliary and predeployed on the map but if you lose any of those ships they are not going to appear in the next map if they were predeployed there as well. In unit parameters section of the editor "Unique" mark will be checked on such units and they need to have custom name. If unit with the same custom name and such mark checked appears on the next map game will track records was it destroyed in any of the previous scenarios and if it was it will not appear on the map. So watch on your ships. It can be used on any auxiliary unit ofcourse. In many previous scenarios you will also notice many exit zones were removed from the maps.

Razz1
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Razz1 » Thu May 16, 2013 9:48 pm

I would put a paragraph starting at " The Americans will land on the Left in the Gela area in support."

I was confused by this statement in Beta 1. It implies you will get auxiliary forces on the map that will help you in your invasion.

billmv44
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by billmv44 » Fri May 17, 2013 8:07 pm

Started with Beta 2, finished on Beta 3. Starting prestige 6178, ending 1597. Victory on 25/25.

Wow, that was tough. After a turn or two of attempting to batter my way past Etna, I swung around to the Axis right flank and was just barely able to break through and take Messina. The Germans were very tenacious in defense. I lost several units (2 M-18s, 1 M-4A3, 1 M8 and a Hw inf. I'm not looking forward to battling up the spine of Italy.

I really like the new UI skin. Very Sharp looking.
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Allied Corps Beta Tester

Verus
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Verus » Sat May 18, 2013 12:26 am

Is beta3 missing victory conditions on this scenario or only missing the text for it ?

Herald611
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Herald611 » Sat May 18, 2013 2:23 am

the victory conditions are still blank
There is no such thing as "overkill". There is only "keep firing" and "time to reload".

Razz1
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Razz1 » Sat May 18, 2013 2:29 am

It's missing text, however the map should be finished in beta 3

Beta 2 start finish on Beta 3
General
start 12646
end 9250

There was no way I could push any ships into the evacuation hex.
Two subs blocking the way with 3 forts and 88's.
This is a tough map.
25/25
Victory
Attachments
B2 Sicily Razz Beta 2-3.rar
(53.53 KiB) Downloaded 106 times

Longasc
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Longasc » Sat May 18, 2013 1:31 pm

This scenario is delaying my testing for days already.

I "hate" it! It's a HUGE map and despite 25 turns, time is VERY limited. The clarification of victory objectives helped me a lot, I will probably go for a victory only.

Some things: Very nice mountain warfare terrain, but this also slows down things even more as it is in the nature of such terrain.

The scenario is quite a drag so far, even a nice "Tiger" counter attack didn't change that. Thankfully the Tiger killed itself: Attacked a Ranger in hills backed up by two M12 howitzers. Lost 6 units, never fired a shot. Hu? -> Does the AI attack if it doesn't "see" artillery when starting to move to a hex, even if it should become obvious once its in range that the result would be fatal?

I also feel chronically short on units to conquer the small villages on the western half of the Island.


While victory and the safety of your units are never that much challenged, this scenario is quite longish and I really don't like it. Rather kill me and make me scream like in Kasserine than that. :)

Just took a break, will resume playing tonight.

Longasc
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Longasc » Sat May 18, 2013 3:27 pm

Sicily (Beta 3)

Level: General
Start Prestige: 9611
End Prestige: 6399 (-3212)
Result: 25/25 Victory
Bought/Upgraded/Losses: No losses, but lots of strength points lost.


I already stated it, this scenario bogged me down - it's not difficult, but tedious and lengthy mountain warfare with a very tight time limit. I didn't conquer Messina and didn't even dream of stopping the evacuation. It is IMO also never ever worth the risk to your units and prestige reserves.

It's a huge map and almost that what is nowadays called asymmetrical warfare, the Germans have 1 Tiger, ok, but in general it's close combat of infantry vs infantry in mountains, supported by artillery and planes.

Regarding the CRUISER debate: If we saved the cruiser for THIS, uh, this is so far away and rewarding or punishing players for dragging the cruiser through the desert, no, this isn't good. Would forget about the cruiser, really.

Would like to add some more, but it's probably me just having a beef with this scenario/map, I find it very difficult and not that fun somehow, despite being special and interesting in a way.

Edit: Submarines, really? Were there ever Submarines involved? Dunno. Could be removed together with the possible player cruiser, imo.

Razz1
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Razz1 » Sat May 18, 2013 4:56 pm

Actually, I really like this map and think it is one of the best.
The victory conditions need to be updated.

I used my 3 destroyers and Cruiser from the Crete scenario here.
There was no problem killing the German units that were trying to evacuate.
Adding an evacuation hex in the South would be nice so a player could retreat his Navy and re-use in Normandy/D-Day.

I would have had a Triumph if I could have captured the two cities in the North West. One more turn and I would have done it.

This map does take time to advance due to the terrain,

Having deployment hexes to the West about 6 hexes would help. Make it two or three hexes. Then a player will have the opportunity to attack the West and North while simultaneously attack from the East. One can sail to the Northwest and land to attack but that seems like it would take a long time. It is a gamble as you are not sure what type of units are placed on the map. AND Lord knows what would happen if there was an AI air force in the area that could easily attack your transports. That's why I suggest adding some additional deployment hexes to the West to make the travel distance shorter. . Make a pincer movement and work on capturing the cities in the center.

I didn't check the script, but I sure hope I received prestige points for killing all the retreating Germans. The briefing should be clearer on what the reward is for killing those units. Then a player can decide on what they want to do on this map. Kill retreating units and capture Messina for a Triumph or capturing all VH's and Messina for a Victory.

Herald611
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Herald611 » Mon May 20, 2013 9:04 pm

Wholly crud! This was a bloody scenario, which I won on the last turn when two of my Daimlers reached the last town in the northwest.
My Mosquitos proved vital in destroying any troop transports trying to reach the German positions on the island, then later any trying to escape.
I dropped all three of my paratroops on the small spit of mainland, where they seized the port, and then slowly chewed through the defenders, grabbing all the objectives on the mainland.
I played on Field Marshall, and lost about 2,500 prestige points. All my surviving units were beat to hell, and I had taken about 25% losses.

Thank god the NEXT scenario was a walkover, giving me a chance to recover.

Razz1, I did not get any allied ships - how the devil did you get any?
There is no such thing as "overkill". There is only "keep firing" and "time to reload".

Zhivago
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Zhivago » Mon May 20, 2013 10:00 pm

The evacuation hexes are gone in Beta 3, so I couldn't save anything. I noticed more ships were added to the Axis navy, and it is hard to get away without losing a destroyer (or two).

Verus
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Verus » Tue May 21, 2013 8:43 am

Someone please explain what I need to do for a "triumph" result on this scenario ? Took all victory points including Messina within 20 turns and still no triumph.

Zhivago
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Re: Allied: Sicily

Post by Zhivago » Tue May 21, 2013 7:59 pm

Verus wrote:Someone please explain what I need to do for a "triumph" result on this scenario ? Took all victory points including Messina within 20 turns and still no triumph.
Join the club. I would like to know myself.

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