Possible bug - No morale loss for Soviets in 1941?

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zechi
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Possible bug - No morale loss for Soviets in 1941?

Post by zechi » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:06 pm

I'm not sure if this is a bug, but in my current game with Panzer General he launched Barbarossa in May 1941 (fair weather everywhere) and the Soviets do not seem to suffer from any morale loss. Is this intended and a new feature of the latest patch?

Peter Stauffenberg
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Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:10 pm

Check again the weather in Moscow. It could be severe winter despite northern Europe has fair. You won't notice on the first turn of Barbarossa since you move and attack in eastern Europe and not Russia.

_Augustus_
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Post by _Augustus_ » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:22 pm

Hi,

"Problems" arising from DoWing when the enemy capital is non-fair weather keep popping up, not often, but regularly. Would it be possible have the game check the weather and have a warning in the DoW-promt that you're DoWing in bad weather. Even better have a brief explanation what are the effects of bad weather DoW in the promt.

It would be a good guard againts players who don't live and breath CEaW from "ruining" their games by forgetting to double check the weather when DoWing.

Just my 2 cents.

zechi
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Post by zechi » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:43 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:Check again the weather in Moscow. It could be severe winter despite northern Europe has fair. You won't notice on the first turn of Barbarossa since you move and attack in eastern Europe and not Russia.
I'm playing the Allies and there is no severe winter in Moscow or anywhere else, but perhaps on the Axis turn. I already asked PanzerGeneral if he noticed if there was a weather problem.

Nevertheless, it seems not realistic that if the weather on the Soviet border is fair, but severe winter rages in central Russia that there is no morale loss.

pk867
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Post by pk867 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:12 pm

Hi,

What version of the game (ie. 2.01.x) did the game start with? You maybe upgraded

tp the latest version, but the game was started with old scenarios which can cause weird things to happen in the game.

Russians should have suffered a morale lost with a DoW in 41' Mine did. But my game was started with version 2.01.14 and upgraded to v2.01.19 .

If you started a game with a version earlier than like 2.01.12 that may be causing the problem or are the general.txt files altered?

_Augustus_
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Post by _Augustus_ » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:44 pm

Here's a quick guess. They got SW the latest possible turn in Jan '41. They got the longest SW possible. Zechi is playing Allies. The SW ends after Axis turn. Hence Moscow was fair in Zechi's turn in May. But Moscow was still in SW during Axis's turn in May.

Which would be all working according the documentation. It's very unlikely of course. The warning in the promt would solve it. Or at least make sure any games won't be ruined by the DoW.

_Augustus_

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Post by _Augustus_ » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:58 pm

_Augustus_ wrote:Which would be all working according the documentation. It's very unlikely of course.
Let's see. No SW in of Nov'40, no SW in either of Dec '40 turns and 7 turn SW:
.75 x .25 x .25 x .05 = 0.23%. Very unlikly indeed.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:55 pm

You get a message about severe winter in Russia. What you would see is this.
Northern/eastern Europe: Fair (severe winter)
Central Europe: Fair
Mediterranean: Fair

So if you see in the weather report at the start of the turn that severe winter is mentioned in parenthesis then you know there is severe winter in Russia. You would also know immediately after you DoW Russia and don't get a message about morale loss.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:56 pm

I will make a change to general.txt so severe winter average will be 5 instead of 6. That means you won't get severe winter in May regardless of bad luck with start time and duration.

_Augustus_
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Post by _Augustus_ » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:26 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:You get a message about severe winter in Russia. What you would see is this.
Northern/eastern Europe: Fair (severe winter)
Central Europe: Fair
Mediterranean: Fair

So if you see in the weather report at the start of the turn that severe winter is mentioned in parenthesis then you know there is severe winter in Russia.
Yes, but the point was that people playing who are not devoutees of CEaW might NOT make the connection between the two and would benefit from the warning message proposed above. Applies also to situations where no USSR is involved. There are thousand things to keep track of and/or to check every turn in the game. And it's very easy to forget some once and a while even for a seasoned player. Of course if the message is cumbersome to implement no worries. Just an idea to benefit the experienced and the newcomers alike.
You would also know immediately after you DoW Russia and don't get a message about morale loss.
Yes, but that's bit late when you have already played the other parts of your turn... It only rubs in your error basically :lol:
I will make a change to general.txt so severe winter average will be 5 instead of 6. That means you won't get severe winter in May regardless of bad luck with start time and duration.
I liked the small chance of extra long SW. This was good for later years. It made things not-too-predictable.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:10 am

The long severe winter was good when the Axis regenerated efficiency the turn after the severe winter hit. Now they don't so if the turn gets long then you end up with severe winter in May and still low German efficiency. It means July before they can attack with almost max efficiency.

You can still get 6 turns of severe winter if you're lucky with the duration roll. The average is 5, but you can get as low as 4 or 3 (5% chance). If you look at the weather data for Moscow and Omsk you see that the record high shows quite warm weather in March and April. So it's possible to get an early Spring even in Russia.

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Post by PanzerGeneral » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:08 am

I reloaded the turn, and it is severe winter in northern Russia. Which explains no efficency loss for the Russians.

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