Soviet troops in Med

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Morris
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Soviet troops in Med

Post by Morris » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:41 am

In one of my present AAR with Sean , it is interesting that I found a USSR FTR in Malta in 1943 ?! At first it is impressive & creative , but If the game forbid BEF & US troops to Russia ,how could Allies allow USSR troops to Med ? It seems not make sense . I think it also should be forbidden .
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richardsd
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Post by richardsd » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:08 am

I think the Axis must be doing something very wrong if the Russians have a spare FTR they can send to the Med

I my game against Supermax I have done everything I could think of to 'protect' the Russians (he did a very early and very strong 41 Barabarossa) and I still had to be entirely defensive to hold onto Mosocw in 42.

Granted Supermax is a much better player than me, but I certainly don't have spare FTR's to be sending to the Med!

rkr1958
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Post by rkr1958 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:09 am

You guys never cease to amaze me. Who would have ever thought that someone would have moved a Russian fighter to Malta! :shock:

Morris
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Post by Morris » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:25 am

richardsd wrote:I think the Axis must be doing something very wrong if the Russians have a spare FTR they can send to the Med

I my game against Supermax I have done everything I could think of to 'protect' the Russians (he did a very early and very strong 41 Barabarossa) and I still had to be entirely defensive to hold onto Mosocw in 42.

Granted Supermax is a much better player than me, but I certainly don't have spare FTR's to be sending to the Med!
It is just because my defense strategy . USSR have so many PPS which he is upset for how to spend it . :)

schwerpunkt
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Post by schwerpunkt » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:28 am

rkr1958 wrote:You guys never cease to amaze me. Who would have ever thought that someone would have moved a Russian fighter to Malta! :shock:
In one of my games against Duncan in which he executed the Spain-Persia strategy and did a 1942 Barbarossa, I ended up with about 4 FTRs, 3 TACs, 5 MECHs and 8 INF in Libya, Tunisia and Malta! The western allies were too busy in Spain and France..... I only just managed to win that as the allies on the last game turn.

richardsd
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Post by richardsd » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:29 am

Does that then not answer the question, if Mother Russia isn't being threatened by the Axis - is not entirely concieveable that this could happen?

I am sure Stalin would have jumped at the idea of ahving spies in the Allied Armies if Russia wasn't under threat?

Morris
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Post by Morris » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:30 am

rkr1958 wrote:You guys never cease to amaze me. Who would have ever thought that someone would have moved a Russian fighter to Malta! :shock:
So did I ! That is creation ! I also have tried to fly UK's FTR to Rominia by using the partisan's area & support USSR's counter attack after the patch of forbid BEF to USSR :) .

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Post by peterjfrigate » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:47 am

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I'll defend my action (with tongue in cheek):

1. Though Stalin was absolutely opposed to a Western presence in the USSR given recent history (i.e. Western invasion in the post-revolutionary period), the Western Allies by comparison had no such grievance (i.e. the USSR hadn't recently invaded the USA to put down a revolution after all), so they would be less hostile to a temporary (and carefully monitored) Soviet presence if it was militarily necessary. War makes strange bedfellows!

2. The Soviets and Western Allies cooperated and discussed Med strategy at the second Moscow conference in 1942. Though cooperation was limited to information and technology, more could be imagined to be within the realm of possibility.

3. The Soviets and the West jointly invaded and annexed Persia, setting the precedent that they could cooperate to a higher degree if thought to be vital towards defeating the Axis.

(Philip K. Dick probably has a storyline vindicating all this.)

p.s. (see below) Ahem, that's not one of my games. It was CrazyG who kicked my ass, and thank goodness it wasn't an AAR :shock:

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Blathergut
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Post by Blathergut » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:51 am

I suspect he meant the game with me.

Kragdob
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Re: Soviet troops in Med

Post by Kragdob » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:27 pm

Morris wrote:In one of my present AAR with Sean , it is interesting that I found a USSR FTR in Malta in 1943 ?! At first it is impressive & creative , but If the game forbid BEF & US troops to Russia ,how could Allies allow USSR troops to Med ? It seems not make sense . I think it also should be forbidden .
This is what I wrote some time ago about being strongly opposite to forbidding anything. If you start once then it may turn into endless wave of forbidding because of what we forbid at the beginning... :)

In this case I think it is OK because:
=> Soviet can 'liberate' Middle East from Axis realm
=> Soviet can have spare forces in case Axis are not offensive enough

I think that you should pay for such things anyway (like PP/MP cost should be doubled for units in other power's zone).
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

Morris
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Re: Soviet troops in Med

Post by Morris » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:49 pm

Kragdob wrote:
Morris wrote:In one of my present AAR with Sean , it is interesting that I found a USSR FTR in Malta in 1943 ?! At first it is impressive & creative , but If the game forbid BEF & US troops to Russia ,how could Allies allow USSR troops to Med ? It seems not make sense . I think it also should be forbidden .
This is what I wrote some time ago about being strongly opposite to forbidding anything. If you start once then it may turn into endless wave of forbidding because of what we forbid at the beginning... :)

In this case I think it is OK because:
=> Soviet can 'liberate' Middle East from Axis realm
=> Soviet can have spare forces in case Axis are not offensive enough

I think that you should pay for such things anyway (like PP/MP cost should be doubled for units in other power's zone).
I think we should not use different standard to BEF in Russia & SEF in Med . If Stalin reject BEF to help them , I am sure that Rossevolt also won't agree SEF come into their territory . Actually I can pay everything in the pbem ,I just wonder if this is reasonable . :)

Kragdob
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Re: Soviet troops in Med

Post by Kragdob » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:50 am

Morris wrote:I think we should not use different standard to BEF in Russia & SEF in Med . If Stalin reject BEF to help them , I am sure that Rossevolt also won't agree SEF come into their territory . Actually I can pay everything in the pbem ,I just wonder if this is reasonable . :)
I agree with you and this is why I am for letting Allied EF in Russia as well. This would probably be a little bit of ahistorical but also very low probable in the game right now (by 1941 UK has very little units to spare for 'Soviet adventure' right now).

I only think (and maybe this should be general rule) that you should pay more for replacements when on such mission.

Maybe the rule should work like that:
=> supply 5,4 normal bonus for replacements (60% of new units MP/PP cost)
=> supply 3: cost is risen to 80%
=> supply 2: cost is 100%
=> supply 1: cost is 120%

This would reflect difficulty in transporting replacement to distant lands or difficult terrain.
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

JimR
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Post by JimR » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:42 am

Rather than create yet another prohibition, choosing to increase supply costs for out-of-theater deployments might be the best way for us to address this issue.

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