V2.10RC9

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Peter Stauffenberg
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V2.10RC9

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:48 am

RC9 is now ready and I gave all the files to Ronnie and Paul. So expect to get RC9 shortly. I will restart all my games.

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Re: V2.10RC9

Post by rkr1958 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:27 am

Stauffenberg wrote:RC9 is now ready and I gave all the files to Ronnie and Paul. So expect to get RC9 shortly. I will restart all my games.
RC9 PC version is out: viewtopic.php?p=298691#298691

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Post by schwerpunkt » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:29 pm

What happens to rail if Germany conquers Iraq and then enters Persia and then the Russians enter Persia and retake Iraq? Will the Russians be able to use allied rail gauge in Persia (to rail from Tabriz to Tehran etc) as before? What will happen to Iraqi rail when Russia retakes Baghdad?

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Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:02 pm

Russia should be able to rail within their own rail network. So if Russia takes a city in Persia and then another they should be able to rail between these two. The Iraqi rail will become broad gauge (those hexes liberated by Russia). So Russian can rail there, but not the western Allies.

I'm not sure, so we need to test and try it out.

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Post by Blathergut » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:49 pm

Installed and seems to be working fine. Just had time to play the first couple turns to see, but there were a couple little kinks to original plans (not being able to rail this or that since it was away from a rail head). Interesting.

I had a couple games started a bit ago. Buried in report cards and such for the next couple weeks. Could we restart with v9 then?

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Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:24 pm

I also noticed the same in my restart against Ronnie. The Axis can't rail units from Poland to the west unless they're adjacent to a city. So we need to rethink our strategies now.

This change alone will make blitz of France a bit harder since you can't rail every unit to western Germany in one turn. You need to move to the cities before you can rail the following turn. That means it takes one extra turn to be ready to invade and then it will be harder to be lucky with the weather and get fair weather for the invasion in the Fall of 1939.

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Post by Kragdob » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:28 pm

I like this change very much. It makes more realistic for Strategic Redeployment and make strategic reserves very crucial as you are not able to just rail corpses into the breakthrough that easily now.

For Middle East - was there really rail network between e.g. Cairo and Baghdad? It is still strange to me that I can rail units from Mediterranean to Persian Gulf...
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

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Post by rkr1958 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:22 pm

Blathergut wrote:Installed and seems to be working fine. Just had time to play the first couple turns to see, but there were a couple little kinks to original plans (not being able to rail this or that since it was away from a rail head). Interesting.
Stauffenberg wrote:I also noticed the same in my restart against Ronnie. The Axis can't rail units from Poland to the west unless they're adjacent to a city. So we need to rethink our strategies now.
Fortunately for me it was in a hotseat game where I hit this snag and discovered the true impact of this change. It does force you to plan more careful; especially if you have plans on turn 3 for units still in Poland on turn 2.

Also, I think it historically diminishes the a possibility a turn 2 Blitz in the west.

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Post by Kragdob » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:50 pm

rkr1958 wrote:Also, I think it historically diminishes the a possibility a turn 2 Blitz in the west.
If you want to be in accordance with history it should be so. Germans mobilized for war with Poland and left France behind Sigfried line. If you'd like to have option to blitz in the west in 1939 you should have much stronger France as well. France begun mobilization only in September 1939 but I do not think they would sit if they saw Germans deploying units on their frontier in e.g. August 1939.
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

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Post by Diplomaticus » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:49 pm

These early reports (e.g. the difficulty of railing units from Poland after the fall of Warsaw) is making me realize that this is a bigger change that I'd thought, and obviously it impacts Axis far more than the Allies. I hope we haven't tipped the scales too far against Axis again. I'll be very interested to see how this plays out as the AAR's come in.

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Post by rkr1958 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:23 pm

Diplomaticus wrote:These early reports (e.g. the difficulty of railing units from Poland after the fall of Warsaw) is making me realize that this is a bigger change that I'd thought, and obviously it impacts Axis far more than the Allies. I hope we haven't tipped the scales too far against Axis again. I'll be very interested to see how this plays out as the AAR's come in.
Personally, I don't think it has an impact on balance. For me it just requires a readjustment on my thinking of what units can rail. I think initially it's biggest impact will be players making "mistakes" and finding out oh heck, I can't rail that unit. After we learn the mechanics I don't think it's that big of deal with one possible exception. No longer will an axis player, for example, be able to rail units deep in the Caucasus (for example) and not next to a city away to safety before winter hits.

This change to me just feels more historical, realistic and adds to the flavor of the game by forcing players to plan ahead if they want to rail.

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Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:41 pm

Poland falls as early as before with the latest changes. If you want to go after the west early you should rail units on turn 1 when the units are adjacent to german cities, fortresses.

So you just need to adjust the strategy slightly. It was the same when we added Lodz as a Polish city. Then you had to alter the strategy to ensure a 2 turn conquest.

So far I don't see any reason to say that the game balanced has changed.

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Post by PionUrpo » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:14 pm

Kragdob wrote:I like this change very much. It makes more realistic for Strategic Redeployment and make strategic reserves very crucial as you are not able to just rail corpses into the breakthrough that easily now.

For Middle East - was there really rail network between e.g. Cairo and Baghdad? It is still strange to me that I can rail units from Mediterranean to Persian Gulf...
This map indicates a small gap between Haifa and Beirut. Not sure it matters in the 20 day/turn context though... http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/U ... ed-I-3.jpg

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Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:21 pm

Kragdob wrote:For Middle East - was there really rail network between e.g. Cairo and Baghdad? It is still strange to me that I can rail units from Mediterranean to Persian Gulf...
There was a rail line from Egypt to Palestine that was opened in 1920.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Railways

The railway was linked up with Jerusalem, Beirut, Damascus, Aleppo and further north to the Baghdad railway and the Turkish rail network.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Railway

Some parts weren't completed until 1941 (like a bridge over the Suez). Before 1941 the trains were ferried across the Suez.

Here is some info about the PR (Palestine Railways):
During the Second World War traffic on PR increased dramatically from 1940 to 1945.[46] The PR main line was a supply route for the North African Campaign that lasted from the Italian attack on Egypt in 1940 until the German surrender in Tunisia in May 1943. In April – May 1941 the Italian air force and German Luftwaffe used Vichy French air bases in the mandated territories of Syria and Lebanon as staging posts to support Rashid Ali's coup d'état against Iraq's pro-British government. British and Empire forces landed in southern Iraq and overthrew the coup in the brief Anglo-Iraqi War of May 1941. Then in June and July 1941 PR served as a supply route for the British and Empire invasion of Vichy Syria and Lebanon.

This is how the rail line linked up Palestine and Iraq. The line went via Syria and along the border with Turkey.

Image

Basra was linked up with Baghdad using a different rail gauge than the standard gauge. Only in the 1960's was the Basra/Baghdad line upgraded to standard gauge.

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