Page 1 of 1

Software Development Axiom - Pick Any Two.

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:49 pm
by rkr1958
This poll is for illustration purposes and holds no power; but I thought I'd share an software development axiom that through experience I've found to be so true. And more so in the development, testing and release of GS.

The axiom goes, pick any two of the following three. I want it: cheap, good or fast.

I think, "cheap" is a given due to the fact we all do this for free. My second pick is, and always will be, "good." So you know what that means. It won't be fast.

Re: Software Development Axiom - Pick Any Two.

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:20 pm
by Blathergut
I also think, though, that at some point the design/game changes need to stop and you finally release.

Re: Software Development Axiom - Pick Any Two.

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:59 pm
by Cybvep
Quality comes first. Obviously reasonable deadlines are a necessity, because otherwise you will simply keep changing and testing things forever, but if you ask me, I would almost always chose a later but superior release than a premature, inferior one, unless the proportions are completely out of wack.

Re: Software Development Axiom - Pick Any Two.

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:04 pm
by Peter Stauffenberg
The best way for that to happen is for the beta testers to not suggest changes to the rules and for elite players to not find the flaws that still exists in the game balance.

So it would be nice if you all consider if it's necessary to start new threads about minor flaws with GS you want to have fixed. We can certainly fix them, but it means time for coding, testing, finding bugs etc. All this will delay the release time. So if we want to give GS v2.1 to Slitherine on March 20th we should only focus on bugs and accept the rules we have, even if you feel that some implementation is not how you like it.

The discussions also show we can't make everybody happy. People have different views about how GS should work so we have to make some kind of compromise that can make the game fun for most players.

One example is the exploit where UK air units flew to France and Norway to capture cities so the Germans spent more time clearing up. OK, we fixed it after you talked about it for quite some time, but it meant one patch with the fix and another patch with a bugfix to the change made. That means more time needed for testing and a risk the scheduled release date will have to be postponed.

Ronnie is right that sometimes we have to accept that good enough to good enough and click the fast button. If we want to improve and tweak all the time then we will struggle to see the finish line. So it's all up to you to contribute to help us click on the fast button and not only the good button. :p

Re: Software Development Axiom - Pick Any Two.

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:13 pm
by Peter Stauffenberg
For GS v2.1 we have to have in mind that the better work we do in the beta test the less risk for having to patch the final version. I think that GS v2.1 will contain almost all we want to have in a WW2 sim game. If we post release make a new version it will be to add better AI. But that won't happen until after we've had a long vacation from development.

So the main reason I just don't push the game out the door right now is because I think the public players deserve that when GS v2.1 comes out they can install it and stay on that version without having to patch. Beta testers can be expected to install patches, but the general players hate it even more than beta testers.

I'm not talking about having to patch because of bugs. I believe GS v2.1 is so stable now so it could have made the release tomorrow. I'm talking about game balance. Let's face it, people will stop playing if one side has a considerable less chance to win the game than the other. So we need to ensure the game balance is within 45%/55% for the sides. If we fail that the we have failed as a beta team.

So most of the changes made since GS v2.0 have been to remedy findings about lack of game balance in GS v2.0. We made fixes only to find that new exploits sent us back to start or the pendulum moved to the other side having an advantage. Since we've been in beta for nearly 9 months now the general players will expect us to have a better balanced game that v2.0 was.

I think we're pretty close from being there, but I would like to see the impact of the rail gauge rules. I want to see the Germans get to Leningrad, Moscow and Rostov in 1941 without too much struggle, but it should be almost impossible to reach the Urals and Caucasus in 1941. If we see that from our RC11 games then I think we can hit the fast button. :)

Re: Software Development Axiom - Pick Any Two.

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:22 pm
by Blathergut
It's felt like eons since GS 2 was released. I went to that thread, where it was released by Ian and eyes popped when it was just last May! A huge amount has been done by the A-Team and the beta-ers. I think you have something that is pretty close to release. I'll defer to the pros on how the rail gauge changes works since I don't have time until March Break to grind through turns, but I don't think it will need changes.

Re: Software Development Axiom - Pick Any Two.

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:34 pm
by TotalerKrieg
Stauffenberg wrote:The best way for that to happen is for the beta testers to not suggest changes to the rules and for elite players to not find the flaws that still exists in the game balance.

So it would be nice if you all consider if it's necessary to start new threads about minor flaws with GS you want to have fixed. We can certainly fix them, but it means time for coding, testing, finding bugs etc. All this will delay the release time. So if we want to give GS v2.1 to Slitherine on March 20th we should only focus on bugs and accept the rules we have, even if you feel that some implementation is not how you like it.


I'm not talking about having to patch because of bugs. I believe GS v2.1 is so stable now so it could have made the release tomorrow. I'm talking about game balance. Let's face it, people will stop playing if one side has a considerable less chance to win the game than the other. So we need to ensure the game balance is within 45%/55% for the sides. If we fail that the we have failed as a beta team.
The best way for beta-testers not to suggest changes to the rules and elite players to not find flaws is to have no beta-testers or elite players. You guys can solve the former easily enough but the latter is a problem that won't easily go away. Maybe we can impose an Orwellian 1984-type society? :D

I think at the end of the day, you and the rest of the alpha team just need to make the call when you want to release the game. As I see it, the role of the beta-testers is to play and let you know if we find bugs or exploits and we can do that before or after release. In an ideal world, the beta-testers would have the time to at least play one patch (excluding only small patches which only change mistakes regarding core Nationality or along those lines, any change to game play counts as a new patch) beginning to end but it seems that this would require more time than is available. I will play the game whether it is in beta-test or released to the public so I will not be upset either way.

Boy, I would hate to have failed as a member the beta-team! We had better plan on another year's worth of testing... :)

Re: Software Development Axiom - Pick Any Two.

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:58 pm
by rkr1958
TotalerKrieg wrote:The best way for beta-testers not to suggest changes to the rules and elite players to not find flaws is to have no beta-testers or elite players. You guys can solve the former easily enough but the latter is a problem that won't easily go away. Maybe we can impose an Orwellian 1984-type society? :D
2 + 2 does equal 5. Right?!

Re: Software Development Axiom - Pick Any Two.

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:52 pm
by TotalerKrieg
rkr1958 wrote: 2 + 2 does equal 5. Right?!
That's the spirit! ;)

Re: Software Development Axiom - Pick Any Two.

Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:12 am
by chinmaye
Isolution India is a creative Software Development company in Odisha offers ecommerce website development services, dynamic & responsive website design in Odisha, from last 6 years in Odisha India and oversea at best prices

For more details visit below

Software Development

Best Software Development Company In Odisha

Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:13 am
by chinmaye
Isolution India is a creative Software Development company in Odisha offers ecommerce website development services, dynamic & responsive website design in Odisha, from last 6 years in Odisha India and oversea at best prices

For more details visit below

Software Development

Re: Software Development Axiom - Pick Any Two.

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:43 am
by Alizeh
We eNvent Software Technologies are a professional software development and Web Design Company with wide experience in web services and our expert in-house team is passionate and dedicated in their work. With relevant expertise and creative solutions, we offer our customers the best wed design which would change the way they do business.

Re: Software Development Axiom - Pick Any Two.

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:44 am
by ampreychrist
For getting software developer, There are many websites for getting best software developer. Keep giving updates.

Best ERP Systems