Home Guard Rule bug?

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pk867
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Re: Home Guard Rule bug?

Post by pk867 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:53 pm

IMO the rule was setup so that players would not empty the British Islands of troops and use them unrealistically so a punitive punish was put into place. I believe the requirement should only last until the US joins the war or when London is captured
by the Axis. If London was under threat of capture the government would go into exile in Canada IMO. The requirement is stopped and what ever level the morale had reached would rise to the normal level that other countries have in the game depending upon their Tech level and other factors.

But what happens as the British are losing forces in Britain their morale keeps going down and down. Until they are so low they are worse than the Italians.

They never regain their morale because the rule is based on units in Britain. The British would never surrender and would keep fighting.

There is no information that the US would come to their aid, join the war, or help in any way when their best ally at the time was the British. I believe they would, but since that never happened, there is no information about. Though they were members of the League of Nations so maybe they had a defense treaty I do not know.

The rule that the morale would increase once Russia (which can be delayed by waiting into 1942) or when the US joins the war. (beginning of 42')

Is pretty severe since most countries do not go through that. Britain at the time of world war 2 was largest empire at the time.

more reading led that at the time the us was isolationist in it's foreign policy. That is probably why it took a direct attack for US citizens to consider going to war.
Last edited by pk867 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Home Guard Rule bug?

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:04 pm

jimwinsor wrote:I logged on just now to ask the question: "Is it really the intent of this rule to make the Commonwealth completely useless following a botched Sealion defense?" but I see from the above post that the answer is, sadly for me, yes. :(

So I guess I'll modify my question: Why?

This just smacks of kicking a dog while he's down, I really don't see the game play purpose of it.
The UK morale penalty will usually kick in if you lose most of Great Britain to the Axis. If to manage to fend off the Sealion invasion you will have units in Great Britain to avoid the morale loss. If you lost some units then you can easily purchase new ones to again fulfill the requirements.

Before this rule it was common practise for many Allied players to send the UK garrisons to France and use them as cannon fodder to delay the fall of France. That meant the Axis took Paris late in 1940 and with quite heavy casualties. The end result was that they could barely take Yugoslavia and Scandinavia. Going against Egypt or something similar was out of the question. Barbarossa was weaker too.

It's not historical that United Kingdom would empty their home territory to waste their soldiers in France. They had the BEF and it was used in France.

Morris
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Re: Home Guard Rule bug?

Post by Morris » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:23 am

Stauffenberg wrote:
Morris wrote:
pk867 wrote:It is a cause and effect situation. Don't you think that if Axis forces landed in Britain that the British would not react?
In fact , If it really happened in 1940 , British must react ! but maybe retreat or make an peace agreement with Axis .

So how about if France fall in early 1940 & Axis took London before Sept 1940 , Uk become neutral until USA or USSR join the war . :D It will make the game more interesting !
With the harsh UK morale penalty you virtually make UK neutral until USA joins the Allies. UK will have to retreat from all engagements or lose their units.
To make UK morale penalty means you have to conquer all Britain including northern Ireland . It cost Axis too much time & time is very precious for Axis . So how about give UK 20 morale penalty after they lose London ?

GogTheMild
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Re: Home Guard Rule bug?

Post by GogTheMild » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:04 am

Morris wrote:To make UK morale penalty means you have to conquer all Britain including northern Ireland .
What about Scarpa Flow.
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Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Home Guard Rule bug?

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:46 pm

Morale penalty counts the number of UK units in Great Britain, Scapa Flow and Northern Ireland inclusive. So you will see the effect way before you get to Northern Ireland if you destroy enough UK units.

Kragdob
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Re: Home Guard Rule bug?

Post by Kragdob » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:57 pm

I oppose any changes for the rule. The penalty works usually till US joins the war and reflects the chaos UK forces would suffer worldwide when their homeland is occupied.

And do not remember that you can foresee the collapse and evacuate some GARs to Norther Irleand and Northern Scotland. This takes some time to dislodge.
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

pk867
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Re: Home Guard Rule bug?

Post by pk867 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:29 pm

I agree with no changes. The rule works as designed.

We altered the morale effect when the US joins the war. Not a big change.

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