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Increasing transport cost & loses lowers the disembark ret

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:56 am
by Kragdob
One more I had on my mind for some time.

I would propose increase in transport cost up to 20 PPs and reduction of the return when disembarking unit in port based on the loses transport suffered. This has two reasons:
=> making transport a cannon fodder or unescorted less lucrative
=> increasing cost of amphibious landings (I really think that it is way to little if overloard cost me like 30 PPs in terms of cost of unbording the units on the shores, Allies did prepare for overloard a long time because of high cost of the operations and failure would mean that this cost would be lost in vain).

Re: Increasing transport cost & loses lowers the disembark r

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:01 pm
by Cybvep
Increasing transport cost sounds ok, but I disagree about the return. There should be a clear difference between disembarking in port and landing on a beach. Also, for nations like Italy, which have very very low PP income, this rule is quite important.

Re: Increasing transport cost & loses lowers the disembark r

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:14 pm
by Kragdob
Yes, but the reasoning that appears in other threads is that transport is kind of 'mini' ad-hoc fleet so it sounds logical that if you loose some of the vessels you should pay for it.

For amphibious landing the cost would be of different kind (means for your troops to land ashore) but expressed in the same value.

Re: Increasing transport cost & loses lowers the disembark r

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:38 pm
by pk867
Unless you unload at a port you do not recoup any spent PP's to load the transport I believe.
So any invasion are going to cost you to load, the additional costs over the limits, and if you invade more hexes above the
minimum it will cost you big. So 8PP's for now is the number. Changing the cost like that would change the dynamic of the game. You have to increase

countries PP's, which would lead to other balance issues. You and your opponent could try a game where you both have the same changes to the general.txt file

You could make the change to the number at sea from the current value of '3' to '2' this will increase the cost to keep transports at sea above the base number of transports at sea. Then see how the game plays. you have to play a couple of games this way to really see if it changes any player strategies.

You have to remember to play other games with the standard value to not get checksum errors.

We are making changes that naval units take enough damage they will retreat from their hex. BB are very deadly to transports at least 6 to 7 hits.

Re: Increasing transport cost & loses lowers the disembark r

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:53 pm
by Kragdob
I do not quite understand how 8PPs you pay to load relates to cost of landing or transport overuse - I can make invasion strictly within the limit for sea transport and landing hex and still it can be big (USA + UK can have 8+ ships at see and 6+ landings when 1943/1944 comes) so the only real cost is cost of loading unit on the transport. In fact the cost of 8 when looked at invasion is very low so basically the logistic price for amphibious landing is close to nothing.

So when I e.g. load 15 units in Europe (counting the ones I land in ports that are destroyed) I pay 120 PPs which is 1 turn income for both US and UK. Something that is really not much of a cost (2 DDs, 1 FTR or 3 INF corps, the loss you won't hardly notice in other situations).

Additional fact for 8 being so low is that transport can be used to block enemy ships and all you pay is 8 + cost of possible damage.

Re: Increasing transport cost & loses lowers the disembark r

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:42 pm
by Peter Stauffenberg
Transports will easily retreat now. When a transport is hit you don't only lose the 8 PP's spent to embark the land unit. You also lose the land unit. So a sunk transport with a garrison is 8 + 15 = 23 PP's lost.

Since transports can now easily retreat it means your valuable surface ships can still get hit if you use transports as cannon fodder.