Battlefield Europe v1.9 - "what if..." scenario

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panzerdim
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 - "what if..." scenario

Post by panzerdim » Wed May 01, 2019 2:52 pm

One more question, McGuba.

Please see attached screen form your battle with Intenso.

This is a Kronstadt. What means these two road or railways between isle and coast?
_Intenso_t_9_Nord - Copy.jpg
_Intenso_t_9_Nord - Copy.jpg (523.63 KiB) Viewed 652 times

McGuba
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 - "what if..." scenario

Post by McGuba » Wed May 01, 2019 7:19 pm

panzerdim wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 2:35 pm
So, this is a not original PC feature and it is your scripts?

Great, well done.
These scripts are available as standard in the PzC editor. Anyone can add these to any custom made scenario. It is also possible to combine scripts and thereby create very complex and unpredictable scenarios which would play very differently basically every time. Especially with the new exe which allows 256 AI zones instead of the original 32. PzC is very mod friendly and many things can be done with it. It is really only about how much time you would be willing to put into it and how creative you are.

Please see attached screen form your battle with Intenso.

This is a Kronstadt. What means these two road or railways between isle and coast?
It represents the road acess to the small island fortress of Kronstadt as it is in real life:
Kronstadt.jpg
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panzerdim
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 - "what if..." scenario

Post by panzerdim » Wed May 01, 2019 7:57 pm

Thanks for information, McGuba.


Sorry, but this is a modern map of Kronstadt. These a modern roads on the dam building in Millenium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg_Dam

During WWII Kotlin was a isolated isle connected with Leningrad by ferry and boats.

what do you think to add Saaremaa (with important airfield) and Hanko with coastal batteries in Baltic Sea?

Sorry, probably I see Saaremaa on the mod map.

But Hanko is also important.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hanko_(1941)

McGuba
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 - "what if..." scenario

Post by McGuba » Wed May 01, 2019 10:31 pm

Sorry, but this is a modern map of Kronstadt. These a modern roads on the dam building in Millenium.
Oh, yeah, for some reason I though that some of them were built before the war. At least temporary bridges. I even remember seeing such a map, but probably I was wrong. Nevertheless, since this port city hex is next to the beach it will be accessible from the southern beach of the gulf due to the scale of the map, so maybe I will leave it like this to indicate that the player can actually move ground units there via the road. Otherwise it would be confusing to see an isolated island fort which can be reached from the shore in the south by ground units.

what do you think to add Saaremaa (with important airfield) and Hanko with coastal batteries in Baltic Sea?
Both are there already in the next version.
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panzerdim
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 - "what if..." scenario

Post by panzerdim » Thu May 02, 2019 12:11 am

b
McGuba wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 10:31 pm
At least temporary bridges. I even remember seeing such a map, but probably I was wrong.
Unfortunately, no.

Actually, the Finnish Gulf is frozen on winter and temporary roads(not bridges) ran across the ice but on other seasons only ferries connected with coast.

And Kronstadt was been during WWII a heavy fortified military town with strong forts, coastal defense batteries, air-defense and even railway guns 180 mm.

But the current map scale is not allow you to make a Kronstadt as isolated isle.

It is a VP and this is true. Town was very important for Leningrad defense.

From one side, it is good that this hex is free to move naval unit. So, I suppose that hex have a terrain type as Sea. But this is mean that hex is a not a city and have not Close.

i do not know what is better. I would prefer delete roads and put here a strong fort on city terrain and remain it as VP. it is enough one sea hex above to move fleet to Leningrad if need.

Actually, the Kotlin Isle defense is unique . It is a whole system of mines and artillery defense consisting from fortified town Kronstadt and some isolated sea forts around (like a Fort Bayard) and sea mines fields between. it is a very hard target for storming Leningrad from sea.

Guys, I'm a newbie to modding tools for PC. Is it possible to do a sea terrain making frozen like a frozen rivers?

Actually around Leningrad has been many ice operations from Soviet and Finnish sides.

McGuba
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 - "what if..." scenario

Post by McGuba » Thu May 02, 2019 10:26 am

Actually, currently Kronstadt is a port city hex so that both naval and ground units can enter and as such it is close terrain like any other city. However, ground units can only enter from the south and that’s why I believe it is necessary to make it clear for players somehow, and the two road connections is one way to do so. They clearly show that ground units can move to the island city from the two neighbouring hexes. Otherwise it would look like an isolated island and players would be puzzled to see they can move their ground units over the water. But it is unavoidable due to the scale of the map. There has to be a compromise here due to the scale.

Now originally I planned to make Kronstadt unoccupied or only occupied by a naval unit but in our multiplayer test with Intenso we agreed that Leningrad is a bit too easy to capture with the Axis. Therefore I decided to boost its defenses with the addition of the actual Kronstadt fort, which in fact will be an artillery unit so that it can provide defensive fire to the neighbouring Krasnaya Gorka fort on the southern coast. Historically Krasnaya Gorka was never captured, partly due to it got fire support from Kronstadt.

On the other hand, the blockade of Leningrad will be more worthy as its defenders will lose strength faster than before because I noted that many players just avoid it and wait with the storming of Leningrad until more advanced units become available like the Panther.

So in the end this area gets an overhaul and I am interested to see how it will affect both single and multiplayer games.

As for ice, it is possible to do so, but I would not like to do it as it would cause other problems. For example it would make it easier to move Finnish and German units between the two sides and also I think it would make the capture of Leningrad easier as the Axis would be able to attack the new Kronstadt fort with ground units across the ice before defeating Krasnaya Gorka, when I actually wanted to make it harder and not easier. Additionally, I read that these attacks through the ice were all unsuccessful historically.

If there was ice in the gulf, the Axis player would also be able to attack the weak artillery units in Leningrad during the winter with ground units, again making the capture if Leningrad faster and easier.

And then even if in multiplayer the human Allied player may be able to negate these effects and react to an Axis attack through the ice, the AI in single player would be unable to do the same.
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McGuba
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 - "what if..." scenario

Post by McGuba » Thu May 02, 2019 11:05 am

Ah, and finally, once the ice melts ground units previously moved there would stay where they are and it would be strange to see tank units and atillery floating on the water. Even infantry cannot swim for weeks.😀 So these should be killed by a script but what if the player is unable to move them away before for some reason, for example due to lack of fuel or other units blocking their way? I guess it would be quite annoying for some players. In the end, icing would cause more problems then benefits in my opinion.
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panzerdim
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Re: Battlefield Europe v1.9 - "what if..." scenario

Post by panzerdim » Thu May 02, 2019 2:30 pm

OK.

Reasons are sounds reasonable.

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