Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

A forum to discuss custom scenarios, campaigns and modding in general.

Moderators: Slitherine Core, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design

borsook79
1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
Posts: 837
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 5:51 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by borsook79 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:16 am

deducter wrote:Major game rules changes already done:

4. Infantry GD and CD entrenchment bonuses doubled to 2 and 1, respectively. This means that entrenched infantry is very difficult to root out, and that the "meng" flag is more useful. Certainly scenarios like Moscow, Sevastopol, and Stalingrad should now be appropriately difficult.
5. All artillery SA increased to compensate. This means that artillery should be better against infantry in the open, but much less effective against entrenched infantry.
Have you tested this with the new 1.20 rules? They don't work with GC but presumably will with the next patch. In particular I'm concerned about the rule that handicaps artillery with range, combined with entrenchment increase this can make artillery useless in this situation.
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - G.B. Shaw

deducter
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Posts: 1126
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:00 pm

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by deducter » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:31 pm

Borsook wrote: Have you tested this with the new 1.20 rules? They don't work with GC but presumably will with the next patch. In particular I'm concerned about the rule that handicaps artillery with range, combined with entrenchment increase this can make artillery useless in this situation.
I don't intend to enable the rule for artillery attack penalty based on range. I'm keeping the entrenchment bonus vs artillery at +2 per point, but I am doubling the entrenchment defense bonus vs infantry and all other ground units too.

As for patch v1.20, I know the GCs don't work with correctly, so I am waiting for a new patch out to fix this. These are simply the changes I have made so far, that I will test out as soon as the next patch hits. This is also why I'm soliciting feedback for other good changes to make.

monkspider
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
Posts: 731
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:22 am

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by monkspider » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:13 pm

I was about to start a new grand campaign but I think I will wait for your next version. One thing I will say, is that I hope you didn't change the basic balance of the mod too much. I adored the historical feel of the campaign with the early scenarios being somewhat easy but the later campaign feeling appropriately hard.

Delta66
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 354
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:45 pm

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by Delta66 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:36 pm

monkspider wrote:I was about to start a new grand campaign but I think I will wait for your next version. One thing I will say, is that I hope you didn't change the basic balance of the mod too much. I adored the historical feel of the campaign with the early scenarios being somewhat easy but the later campaign feeling appropriately hard.
+1

monkspider
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
Posts: 731
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:22 am

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by monkspider » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:22 am

Hey Deduct, with 1.21 coming out, I hope that we can see an update to your mod soon!

nvett
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by nvett » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:38 am

It seems there are still a few little bugs to iron out in 1.21 but boy am I itching to get back a restart of campaign with new rules and Deducter's mod.

Delta66
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 354
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:45 pm

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by Delta66 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:55 am

I have played through GC West 42/43, with Open Beta 1.21
Rommel, AI level 2, 1.20 rules.

I wonder if the mod, allready take into account the soft cap limit. I mean many units price are different in the mod, and many are significantly higher than in the vanilla game. So I was curious if I was playing with the per core slot soft cap value of the vanilla game (I think it is around 400pp), but with the more expensive price of the mod.

Going to GC west your core goes down from 30+ units to only 9 units. It quite natural to select some of your best units as the 9 ones. So units with a high price as much more weight in GC West 42/43 than in GC East. And there is much less room in your core to field low price units to average the result. Even when you can field 18-20 units, the weight of each single slot is significantly higher.

In the End, I imediatelyfound myself hitting the soft cap ceiling, and gained only 20% of available prestige, Playing on Rommel which allready reduce pp vy 50%, I only get 10% prestige, that is only 10pp for major objectives and 5 for minor ones. Moreover the maps are rather small, whith few pp hexes, and as you are often the defender, I mean strategically, you allready own most of the maps leaving only a few pp hexes for capture. I only get around 100pp per scenario.

So instead of the common prestige snowball typical of the GC East, i found myself in a "prestige drought". So far I make up for the loss by disbanding some of the many captured/gifted units.

I wonder if this is how the mod is supposed to works or if this is because the mod has not been updted for 1.20+ rules.
If posssible it could be good to adjust the soft cap per slot base value, for each year and maybe with different value for East or West, or other campaigns.

nvett
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by nvett » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:27 pm

Deducter mentioned a number of posts ago the probable removal of the prestige cap due to precisely the problem you spoke of above, but I guess we will have to wait and see.

monkspider
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
Posts: 731
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:22 am

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by monkspider » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:10 pm

Hey Deducter, I hope we hear from you again soon!
I had a thought occur to me, what if we gave the smallest caliber towed weapons like the PAK 36, the 2cm to 3.7cm AA and the 7.5mm artillery 2 move? This could make them more competetive. I do remember reading that one of the PAK 36's greatest advantages was how easy it was to move around.

stan23
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:35 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by stan23 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:58 pm

Monkspider.
Reading your post gave me an interesting idea regarding the move of the smaller towed weapons. What if the smaller guns were assumed to have their own organic transport, like the Kettenkrad, justifying their 2 move, with an appropriate icon depicting that. For example, the normal PAK 36 icon, but with a Kettenkrad somewhere in the background (like they just unlimbered) as well, so you can easily tell it has its own organic transport? These would naturally have to cost more as well, but they might be worth it having. Any thoughts?
Greetings from Virginia

Uhu
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Posts: 1169
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:16 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by Uhu » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:15 am

Deducter,
...and everybody who is/was interested how to making the GC scenarios a lot harder.
I complained earlier because for my taste the campaign were total easy and therefore unchallenging and boring (even on Rommel difficulty level).
Now I hope I found the cure. :)
I play it still with 1.14 rules and only the GC East campaign.

1., VH hexes (scenario objectives) have from 1940 a value of 0 - that means a little fewer prestige. With that solution the non-vh hexes are still motivating to conquer because they have prestige-values. In 1939 there is not so much prestige given so in the 1939 campaign the VH hexes have the usual prestige value.
2., No more "free lunch": no bonus units and no extra units (SS-elite or hero-units given in or before the scenario). OK, except 1 unit/year is accepted. 1939: captured 105mm arty, 1940: captures Somua S35, etc. That makes the game real harder and challenging because the player has the limited core force and no extra 2-4 units. That makes a huge difference!
3., Several units will be available for the player later. That means: Pz IIIG only in beginning of 1941, Pz IVD and 150mm arty only at the beginning of Barbarossa, Pz IVE only in autumn of 1941, etc. That makes the scenarios also much harder: for example playing the 1940 campaign just with 10.5 cm arty and Pz IIIF's was real hard! But that makes the Pz III-line worth to buy! (Other way I would always buy Pz IV's.)
4., Modified 1.9 Deducter's stats
5., Many scenarios modified to be more real: that means nationalities which where not in that time or place have been edited to ones who where there (for example no Bulgarian attacking units in 1941 at Metaxa Line)
6., Modified xp-growing system:
ExpGrowRate0 40
ExpGrowRate1 15
ExpGrowRate2 5
ExpGrowRate3 1
ExpGrowRate4 1
ExpGrowRate5 1
That means the 1st star is earned easy the 2nd one also not hard but the later ones are more harder to earn.
Image
Image

nvett
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by nvett » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:22 am

I hope the release of the 1.21 patch sees a revival in this project :-)

fliegenderstaub
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:20 pm

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by fliegenderstaub » Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:39 am

I haven't tried this one yet, but I would like to. So I hope deducter will continue this, too. :)
...and like the once-mighty Mahi-Mahi, you will end
up on a poo-poo platter in the Tikki Hut of life! -Al Bundy -

Muddy
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:35 pm
Location: UK

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by Muddy » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:13 am

Just popped in to see if my favorite mod had been updated for the new all singing patch. I do hope that it will be updated soon.

Rockety
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:26 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by Rockety » Wed May 21, 2014 9:22 am

is an update coming for 1.20+ and beyond? :d

Tarrak
Panzer Corps Moderator
Panzer Corps Moderator
Posts: 1183
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:01 pm

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by Tarrak » Wed May 21, 2014 10:20 am

Rockety wrote:is an update coming for 1.20+ and beyond? :d
I haven't seen Deducter on the forums since like half a year at least. Unless he makes a comeback i doubt it.

Uhu
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Posts: 1169
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:16 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by Uhu » Wed May 21, 2014 11:55 am

If someone wants an absolute (99%) historical accurate and with all nations involved in Europe, North African and Middle East theater file than we can share the files which we developed with McGuba for the Battlefield Europe mod. It is based on Deducter's mod but was futher developed to increase historical accuracy.

On the other hand I made the whole GC East series more historical because in many-many scenarios it was totalally unhistorical (for example almost EVERY scenarios the involved minor nation was not that one which really fought there!). If someone is interested I can share it also.
Image
Image

Cataphract88
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 521
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: London

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by Cataphract88 » Wed May 21, 2014 2:08 pm

Sounds like a good idea to me, Uhu. :)
Richard

Delta66
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 354
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:45 pm

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by Delta66 » Wed May 21, 2014 5:37 pm

Uhu wrote:If someone wants an absolute (99%) historical accurate and with all nations involved in Europe, North African and Middle East theater file than we can share the files which we developed with McGuba for the Battlefield Europe mod. It is based on Deducter's mod but was futher developed to increase historical accuracy.

On the other hand I made the whole GC East series more historical because in many-many scenarios it was totalally unhistorical (for example almost EVERY scenarios the involved minor nation was not that one which really fought there!). If someone is interested I can share it also.
It would be interesting for sure. Maybe make another thread for your mod.
I know it's only a game. I like Science Fiction and Fantasy, but when it comes down to history games I rather have something "historical". I'm currently playing GC44 West. And I was rather shocked to see so many New Zealand units in the first Cassino scenario. The 2nd Cassino with plenty of Polish units is not much better. Neither Indians nor French expeditionary corps.

Rockety
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:26 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Grand Campaign Unit Revisions (GC45West, Mar 4 2013)

Post by Rockety » Wed May 21, 2014 8:57 pm

Uhu wrote:If someone wants an absolute (99%) historical accurate and with all nations involved in Europe, North African and Middle East theater file than we can share the files which we developed with McGuba for the Battlefield Europe mod.
Yes please! I've played with modified stats before and it was a lot of fun compared to vanila

ps.: same goes for the minor nation parts ofc

Post Reply

Return to “Panzer Corps : Scenario Design”