U-boat Mod v1.3

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iceFlame
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Re: U-boat Mod v1.1

Post by iceFlame » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:21 am

peterw wrote:@iceFlame
Really nice mod! :D

Am I allowed to use your U-boot model in my mods?
I'll name you in the credits then.

Actually my German and Italian submarines have two modes (up and down water).

You find my mod "Italia Victor!" at the streitmacht forum.
(This forum doesn't allow me to post a link.)

Peter
Sure you can use it, and thanks for the kind words! :D

I haven't seen your mod before, but now that I know about the sub modes, I'd be interested to see it. I'll try to download at streitmacht in the next few days. Thanks again for the positive feedback. It's good to know the mod is being so well received. :)
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iceFlame
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Re: U-boat Mod v1.1

Post by iceFlame » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:48 am

Just a quick update:

I've modified the rear tube mode (as per guille's great idea :D), so that it now represents emergency defensive fire while trying to evade. To distinguish it from the front tube mode, I added a new animation with just a single torpedo launch and a different sound. This way it reflects the real-life difference in the number of tubes from front to back. Also, (as you can see in the pic below), the number of torpedo doors have been reduced on the icon to match the new animation.

Image

The stats have also been adjusted to reflect the fact the U-boat is attempting to escape. As a result, spotting ability is lowered and naval attack is now passive only with one tube strength instead of two. To compensate, defensive values are slightly increased as the boat is considered to be deploying counter measures and/or evasive maneuvers.

I'm just finishing the test runs, but hopefully it'll be ready to launch in the next few days. :)
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Re: U-boat Mod v1.1

Post by McGuba » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:41 pm

So I implemented this mod idea to the Battlefield mod with slightly different stats and tested it. It did not unbalance the gameplay, just made it more interesting as intended. In fact my U-boats were often located and attacked while travelling on the surface which was nicely compensated by the increased defense values when they are submerged.

I have an idea though, how to model the introduction of the Schnorkel device from late 43-early 44. Basically it should increase the submerged travel speed of snorkel equipped U-boats, so that travelling longer distancies while being submerged would be an option from that point. I would say the increase of the submerged speed from 3 to 5 hexes would do the trick: it would still be somewhat slower than surfaced speed (which is currently 6 if I am right), but it would be considerably faster than the pre-snorkel submerged speed. Historically, U-boats could travel at slower speed while snorkeling, but they could obtain that submerged speed for much longer periods than before the snorkel was introduced.

So there could be another snorkel equiped U-boat type available from late 43, and maybe existing units could be upgraded to them, too. And the submerged icon graphic could include another "periscope", the snorkel itself. What do you think of this?
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guille1434
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Re: U-boat Mod v1.1

Post by guille1434 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:59 am

Hello! Here is some graphics proposal to consider for the U-boat mod... I think it could be a good thing to make the periscope more visible for the player (and hopefully not for the enemy ASW units!). I took a screenshot from a very old Pacific General saved game and copied the submerged submarine icon, then I copied it on your Type VII periscope depth icon after some "processing" (mainly, toning the colors down)... What do you think about the result? The same could be made to the "u-boat on the defensive" icon with the periscope pointing rearwards... I am attaching the icon and a test image...

Edit: Also, I made a smaller indicator icon for a "switching" unit, making the game screen less cluttered...
Attachments
U-Boat_Type_VII-scope.png
U-Boat_Type_VII-scope.png (8.48 KiB) Viewed 3722 times
U-boat Mod Periscope Test-1.png
U-boat Mod Periscope Test-1.png (97.58 KiB) Viewed 3728 times

McGuba
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Re: U-boat Mod v1.1

Post by McGuba » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:56 am

I like it!

Pacific General is a true classic, and it introduced some nice new features to the frenchise, which are still missing from Panzer Corps. Borrowing the periscope graphic is a great idea, it is very much visible and maybe the "phantom" U-boat hull underneath could be omitted now. I think submerged submarines were hardly visible from the air in the Atlantic. As I know they were only visible in clean tropical waters and in calm sea conditions.
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guille1434
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Re: U-boat Mod v1.1

Post by guille1434 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:13 pm

Mac: Indeed, it would be great is PzCorps developers include in the game night turns as there were in Pacific Gen, also some of the special units traits would be nice: Fearless (unit will not pull back when attacked), AI radar (for night fighters), night optics (for warships), etc...

About the icon, if you eliminate the "shadow" sub, we would not be able to differentiate between "persicope depth" and "defensive" (rear torpedo firong modes), and also the animations made for those icons will look weird, also the "Deep mode" icon will be completely invisible in the map (except fot its strenght markers, switchable icon, etc...) and this is not of my liking... But, if you prefer the mod this way to include in the Battlefield Europe mod, it can be done, of course with IceFlame help.

Just my ideas about the matter... :-)

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Re: U-boat Mod v1.2

Post by Wellingham » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:29 am

iceFlame wrote:Image

U-boat Mod v1.2

The U-boat mod allows five different modes of operation. Now you can dive, surface, submerge, go deep and escape and evade. 8)

The mod is fully self-contained (with v1.22 vanilla efx/eqp files). To play, simply copy the 'U-boat Mod v1.2' folder into your '\Panzer Corps\Mods' directory and then enable with JSGME. Once enabled, the new U-boats are purchasable under 'recon.'

Special thanks to: LuftWFJ44, guille1434 and McGuba for their great ideas and playtesting.

Image

Edit: Version 1.2 has just been launched!


The biggest change is the new 'Escape and Evade' mode to replace the previous rear tubes. To explain how it works, I'll quote from the gentleman who came up with the idea. Big thank you by the way:
guille1434 wrote:The idea of this setup is that the submarine when in this "rear tubes" (or may be called "defensive" switch) is trying to escape from the combat area using all the resources at its disposal (evasive maneuvres, decoys, etc) because of that the higher defense values (but they should be not as high as when in "Deep/silent" mode), and it will only fire back, maybe as a last resource, to any attacking unit if this last one fire on the submarine first.
So basically, attack values have been made passive and lowered to one tube strength instead of two. To facilitate this, I added a new single torpedo animation (and a new launch sound) to differentiate this from the forward tubes/attack periscope mode. Also spotting has been reduced (since the sub is not actively listening, but trying to evade), and defensive values are slightly increased to model the use of counter measures and/or evasive maneuvers.

IMO, the reduction to a single rear tube is a great step forward as this more accurately reflects the real life configuration of the Type VII. Further work is planned, including the addition of late war boats, but I thought I should go ahead and release this update prior to adding new units.

Thanks again for downloading and I hope you enjoy it! :D

Image

Edit: v1.1 is now ready to set sail. :wink:

Among the additions are two new modes. The first is Decks Awash, (which is basically a dedicated flak mode) and the second is Rear Torpedoes. For those who are just seeing this for the first time the five modes are as follows:

1) Surface: Maximum speed, maximum attack (torpedoes, deck and flak guns), weakest defense.

2) Decks Awash: Reduced speed (but still faster than scope depth), Torpedo and flak gun attack, slightly improved defense.

3) Scope Depth: Reduced speed (electrics engines only), Torpedo attack, improved defense.

4) Rear Tubes: Basically the same as Scope Depth but with rear tubes instead of front.

5) Deep/Silent Running: Slowest speed, No attack, Maximum defense.

With this version, all four weapons systems are now effectively modeled so you can plan your attack based on the tactical situation. For rear tubes, the periscope 'swings' to the stern and slight water marks are now visible to indicate the rear tubes have been flooded.

Also, for those who may not be familiar with the concept of Decks Awash, this was a special tactic employed by the U-boat arm primarily for night surface attacks. The idea was to lower the boat by approximately 7 to 8 meters so that only the conning tower remained visible above water. Once in this position the boat's silhouette was reduced considerably making them harder to spot and allowing them to skirt around convoys near maximum visual range while still running on diesels.

While this did cause considerably more drag, (while also rendering the deck gun inoperable), it was still faster than running on electrics while fully submerged and gave the added advantage of partial camo during the approach.

Last but not least, I've tried to stay close to vanilla stats wherever possible so as not to disrupt game balance. (Except in cases where testing required adjustments to make the various modes playable). The idea was to make U-boat operations more fun without creating uber units. So hopefully, I've succeeded in that regard.

The mod is fully self contained, so simply copy the 'U-boat Mod v1.1' folder into your '\Panzer Corps\Mods' directory and then enable with JSGME. (In order to utilize phased movement, the surface boat has been classified as recon and is currently purchasable there).

Special thanks to: LuftWFJ44, guille1434 and McGuba for their great ideas and playtesting. 8)

As always, feedback and suggestions for improvements are always welcome. Thanks for trying the mod and I hope you enjoy it! :)
As promised, here's the first working version of the multi-purpose U-boat. The mod includes three different modes, surfaced, periscope depth and deep water. I've also added deck and flak guns to try and emulate U-boat operations to a greater degree than the stock game.

I realize not everyone will like this, but to get the necessary detail, I had to go with upscaled icons. IMO it's a trade-off that had to be made, otherwise the deck gun animations are not workable. If it's too much of an issue, then perhaps other upscale naval units could also be deployed?

Here's a look at the surfaced and periscope icons:

Image

The mod is fully self contained, so simply copy the 'U-boat Mod v1.1' folder into your '\Panzer Corps\Mods' directory and then enable with JSGME. (In order to utilize phased movement, the surface boat has been classified as recon and is currently purchasable there).

Special thanks to: LuftWFJ44, guille1434 and McGuba for their great ideas and playtesting. 8)

Please note this mod is still a work in progress, so feedback and/or ideas for improvement are most welcome. Thanks and have fun! :)
https://www.mediafire.com/?a0ckzuifujr7z9k
I'm proud of you Icey! Perfect!

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iceFlame
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Re: U-boat Mod v1.2

Post by iceFlame » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:05 am

McGuba wrote:So I implemented this mod idea to the Battlefield mod with slightly different stats and tested it. It did not unbalance the gameplay, just made it more interesting as intended. In fact my U-boats were often located and attacked while travelling on the surface which was nicely compensated by the increased defense values when they are submerged.
Wonderful! I'm really glad to hear it worked out so well. :D Your mod encompasses the entire theatre so well that this enhancement to the battle of the Atlantic seemed like a perfect fit. I'll look forward to trying it out in the near future.
I have an idea though, how to model the introduction of the Schnorkel device from late 43-early 44. Basically it should increase the submerged travel speed of snorkel equipped U-boats, so that travelling longer distancies while being submerged would be an option from that point. I would say the increase of the submerged speed from 3 to 5 hexes would do the trick: it would still be somewhat slower than surfaced speed (which is currently 6 if I am right), but it would be considerably faster than the pre-snorkel submerged speed.
Yes. My thinking exactly. The Type XXI has often been called the world's first true submarine in that it was the first boat capable of remaining submerged for extended voyages. As a result, it was not such easy prey to sudden air strikes as its predecessors who frequently had to travel on the surface.
So there could be another snorkel equiped U-boat type available from late 43, and maybe existing units could be upgraded to them, too. And the submerged icon graphic could include another "periscope", the snorkel itself. What do you think of this?
Good ideas. Thanks very much for the input! :)
guille1434 wrote:Hello! Here is some graphics proposal to consider for the U-boat mod... What do you think about the result?

Edit: Also, I made a smaller indicator icon for a "switching" unit, making the game screen less cluttered...
I really like the wake, that's a great addition! It totally adds to the realism. Also, the smaller switch icon is nice as well. I agree that it looks less cluttered, which is a very good thing. Great work guille, thank you! :D
McGuba wrote:Borrowing the periscope graphic is a great idea, it is very much visible and maybe the "phantom" U-boat hull underneath could be omitted now. I think submerged submarines were hardly visible from the air in the Atlantic.
I'll have to give that some thought, as I'm really not sure about dropping the 'phantom' icon. Of course you're right that submerged boats would not be visible from the air, but I don't know if it would work from a game mechanics point-of-view (much as guille described in his last post).

That being said, it sounds as though more testing is called for. :)
guille1434 wrote:About the icon, if you eliminate the "shadow" sub, we would not be able to differentiate between "persicope depth" and "defensive" (rear torpedo firong modes), and also the animations made for those icons will look weird, also the "Deep mode" icon will be completely invisible in the map (except fot its strenght markers, switchable icon, etc...) and this is not of my liking... But, if you prefer the mod this way to include in the Battlefield Europe mod, it can be done, of course with IceFlame help.

Just my ideas about the matter... :-)
My first impression is I think you may be right about this, but as I just said to Mac, it would probably be a good idea to run some tests to see for sure. After all I've been wrong before, (and I'm sure I'll be wrong again :lol:), so better safe than sorry.

Finally, thank you both for your continued input and assistance. Without your help this mod wouldn't be nearly as good, so I just want to let you both know it's greatly appreciated! :D
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iceFlame
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Re: U-boat Mod v1.2

Post by iceFlame » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:48 am

Wellingham wrote:I'm proud of you Icey! Perfect!

~Ulisses Montagna
Thanks for the kind words! :D

*******

The first post has been updated with the latest version. Enjoy!
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guille1434
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Re: U-boat Mod v1.2

Post by guille1434 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:36 am

Ice: Congratulations for the new release, and the U-boat banner also! :-) This mod is becoming a little gem! I like multi-switchable units sooo much!

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Re: U-boat Mod v1.2

Post by iceFlame » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:21 am

guille1434 wrote:Ice: Congratulations for the new release, and the U-boat banner also! :-) This mod is becoming a little gem! I like multi-switchable units sooo much!
Thanks guille! Me too. The switch ability really takes this game to new heights, (or depths as the case may be). :wink:

Incidentally, in my previous post, I think I said I really 'liked' the wake on your new submerged icon. Truth is I love it! It's a great boost to immersion as I can almost feel the spray as the waves ripple against the scope! :D

Great idea!
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Re: U-boat Mod v1.2

Post by Magic1111 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:45 am

Many thx for the new version! :D

What did you exactly changed in contrast to v1.1? The entries in efx and equipment Files too?

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Re: U-boat Mod v1.2

Post by guille1434 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:35 pm

iceFlame wrote:
guille1434 wrote:Ice: Congratulations for the new release, and the U-boat banner also! :-) This mod is becoming a little gem! I like multi-switchable units sooo much!
Thanks guille! Me too. The switch ability really takes this game to new heights, (or depths as the case may be). :wink:

Incidentally, in my previous post, I think I said I really 'liked' the wake on your new submerged icon. Truth is I love it! It's a great boost to immersion as I can almost feel the spray as the waves ripple against the scope! :D

Great idea!
I am very glad you liked or better still, loved, that little addition... when that came to my mind, I said "the Pacific Gen periscope icon should be included in this mod"! And I liked the idea instantly also!

Thanks a lot for the nice words! I am very happy to be able to help improve this marvellous mod! :-)

Keep the good work u-boat skipper!! :-)

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Re: U-boat Mod v1.2

Post by iceFlame » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:06 am

Magic1111 wrote:Many thx for the new version! :D

What did you exactly changed in contrast to v1.1? The entries in efx and equipment Files too?
Yes, the entries for the 'rear tube mode' were changed...

Basically the biggest change was converting the rear tube mode into 'escape and evade.' So the new rear mode is now a partial defensive switch.

In version 1.1, you could fire both rear tubes with the same defense/attack values as the front periscope mode. Now in v1.2, the icon has been adjusted to show only a single rear door and a new animation, (and sound), have been added to launch only a single torpedo from the rear instead of the usual two from the front.

(IMO, this is much more realistic in terms of reflecting the actual configuration of the Type VII).

Also, attack values have been made passive, (e.g. emergency/last resort fire only) and adjusted to one tube strength instead of two. Then to compensate, defensive values have been slightly increased while spotting has been reduced (since the boat is not actively listening). All of this has been done to model the sub in 'escape' mode, where it is using counter measures and evasive (knuckle port/starboard) moves to evade enemy escorts.

I think this is a good step forward, as we now have a mid-range defensive mode (where counter fire is still possible) in addition to the run silent/deep mode where no attack can be made. It should be more fun as well, since you now have a choice of how to defend rather than just crash dive.

Hopefully that explains it, but if not please ask any specific questions and I'll try to clear it up a bit more. :)
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Re: U-boat Mod v1.2

Post by iceFlame » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:26 am

guille1434 wrote:I am very glad you liked or better still, loved, that little addition... when that came to my mind, I said "the Pacific Gen periscope icon should be included in this mod"! And I liked the idea instantly also!

Thanks a lot for the nice words! I am very happy to be able to help improve this marvellous mod! :-)

Keep the good work u-boat skipper!! :-)
Thank you very much! It really is a pleasure to collaborate with you to make this mod even better. :D

For me, I just want to try and make the game better for players, so I'm very happy to share whatever I come up with. And I certainly do appreciate your willingness to do the same. :)

So I'm definitely planning to include your new scope icon in a future update. (I can hardly wait to see the wake! - But I'm thinking it should probably be done at the same time as the late war boats, just to reduce update fatigue :wink: ).

Also, I wanted to ask you about the new 'switch' icon. Personally I really like it. It looks 'cleaner' and more precise, but do you think it'll be okay to include it even though it won't quite match the button on the vanilla UI?

Just looking at it now, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference, but if players are using other switch units, they might end up with several different icons in the same game. As I said, I like the look of yours better, but I'm thinking the best long-term solution might be if the devs could include a standard version as an overlay in a future patch.

Either that or I could mod the new switch in such a way that it replaces the vanilla button to make sure they match, but I'm not sure I want to do that in case anyone uninstalls the U-boat mod as a result. :(

Anyway, just thinking out loud here, but I'd be interested to hear your opinion. Thanks again! :)
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Re: U-boat Mod v1.2

Post by Magic1111 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:55 am

iceFlame wrote: Hopefully that explains it, but if not please ask any specific questions and I'll try to clear it up a bit more.
Yes, now all is cleared! :D

Background for my questions was, that I use your MOD not as "Standalone", but with my own modded Equipment & efx files. It means, I must via copy&paste the needed entries from both files of your MOD bring into my files when you release a new version!

Many thx for all of your work!

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Re: U-boat Mod v1.2

Post by guille1434 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:38 pm

Ice: No problem, you can add all in a future update... I think the Type XXI u-boat icon wil be ready soon enough... :-)

About the "switchable icon", I also think the new one looks a little better... Anyway, take this with a grain of salt as this is not my specific field of action...

First of all, I think that this icon was an idea of McGuba for his mod, so it would be a good think to ask him what he thinks about this new style, and may be we can standarize on the new graphic... To have two different icons for the same function in the game mao is a no-go for me also...

Second, it would be super-nice if the game developers include it as an overlay, that would end this dilemma, but we cannot count on it in the short teerm...

Third: If you design your mod to be installed via the Generic Mod Enable, you can add to the pack a new matching graphic for the switch unit in the UI to replace the original one... Then if the player uninstall the U-boat mod using the GME, it will also revert to the original switch button graphic. I think this can be done, if I am not mistaken.

Alternatively, we can add to the mod pack the icons with the new switch graphics as an alternative icon set, so the player if he chooses to do so, can replace the regular icons with the "tuned" ones...

Just my thoughts about this topic. I hope you find the comments useful! :-)

Best regards, my friend!

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Re: U-boat Mod v1.2

Post by iceFlame » Thu May 01, 2014 7:56 am

Magic1111 wrote:Yes, now all is cleared! :D

Background for my questions was, that I use your MOD not as "Standalone", but with my own modded Equipment & efx files. It means, I must via copy&paste the needed entries from both files of your MOD bring into my files when you release a new version!

Many thx for all of your work!
Oh good, glad to hear it. I know you're a lot like me, (a U-boat fan from way back :wink:), so I'm very happy you're using this mod. If you happen to think of any ideas to improve it, please let me know as I'm happy to listen to suggestions to make it the best it can be.

Thanks again and enjoy! :D
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Re: U-boat Mod v1.2

Post by iceFlame » Thu May 01, 2014 8:20 am

guille1434 wrote:Ice: No problem, you can add all in a future update... I think the Type XXI u-boat icon wil be ready soon enough... :-)
Wonderful news!! The Type XXI will be a great addition to the pens! :D

BTW, I just finished adding your new periscope to the Type VII submerged icons, and I'm pretty happy with the results. I only made two small modifications. The first was to 'raise' the wake a couple of pixels as it seems to look better with a little more distance between the surface and the submerged boat. Second, I added a lighter texture to the lens part of the scope as I think this also improves the look. (Almost as if the sun is producing glare when it hits the exposed lens).

So with those two small changes, here's a screen shot of a wolfpack ready to strike an Allied convoy:

Image

The bottom boat is attempting to flank the convoy, while the two lead boats are laying in wait... I love the wake, but I'll have to lower my scope periodically so it doesn't give me away to the enemy lookouts! :wink:
About the "switchable icon", I also think the new one looks a little better... Anyway, take this with a grain of salt as this is not my specific field of action...

First of all, I think that this icon was an idea of McGuba for his mod, so it would be a good think to ask him what he thinks about this new style, and may be we can standarize on the new graphic... To have two different icons for the same function in the game mao is a no-go for me also...
Good idea, let's see what Mac thinks about it.
Second, it would be super-nice if the game developers include it as an overlay, that would end this dilemma, but we cannot count on it in the short teerm...
True. But I think it would be good to suggest it to them. Particularly since the 'switch' icon is becoming so important to the game. A 'standardized' version would be very welcome.
Third: If you design your mod to be installed via the Generic Mod Enable, you can add to the pack a new matching graphic for the switch unit in the UI to replace the original one... Then if the player uninstall the U-boat mod using the GME, it will also revert to the original switch button graphic. I think this can be done, if I am not mistaken.
Yes, that is correct. If we do go with the new switch, this may be the best way to make it uniform.
Alternatively, we can add to the mod pack the icons with the new switch graphics as an alternative icon set, so the player if he chooses to do so, can replace the regular icons with the "tuned" ones...
I hadn't thought of that. Sounds like another good possibility. Thanks for the suggestion. :)
Just my thoughts about this topic. I hope you find the comments useful! :-)

Best regards, my friend!
Very useful as always. And it's a pleasure to count you a friend! :D
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Re: U-boat Mod v1.2

Post by Rockety » Thu May 01, 2014 8:30 am

Hi,

A great and unique idea here, congrats!

Would you please post a picture where all of the different modes of subs are visible next to each other ? :)

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